Immersion Files Second Haptic Feedback Lawsuit Against Apple

[MacRumors]

Immersion, a company that develops and licenses haptic touch feedback technology, today filed a second lawsuit against Apple and AT&T, accusing the MacBook and MacBook Pro of violating one patent and the iPhone 6s of violating three additional patents not mentioned in the original lawsuit.

According to Immersion, iPhone 6s and MacBook features like 3D Touch and the Force Touch trackpad infringe on its intellectual property. The four patents included in today's lawsuit are as follows:

- U.S. Patent No. 8,749,507: "Systems and Methods for Adaptive Interpretation of Input from a Touch-Sensitive Input Device"

- U.S. Patent No. 7,808,488: "Method and Apparatus for Providing Tactile Sensations"

- U.S. Patent No. 8,581,710: "Systems and Methods for Haptic Confirmation of Commands"

- U.S. Patent No. 7,336,260: "Method and Apparatus for Providing Tactile Sensations"

The fourth patent is the one that Immersion accuses the MacBook, the 13-inch MacBook Pro, and the 15-inch MacBook Pro of violating, and AT&T, while named in the iPhone 6s claim, is not named in the MacBook infringement claim. According to Immersion, the Force Touch trackpad built into these products uses haptic feedback technology belonging to Immersion.

Apple's Force Touch trackpad utilizes haptic feedback to mimic the feeling of pressing on a physical button. The trackpad is able to distinguish between a light press and a harder press, with the pressure-sensitivity used to enable different gestures.

In the original lawsuit filed in February of 2016, Immersion accused Apple and AT&T of infringing on three patents with the iPhone 6, 6s, 6 Plus, 6s Plus, Apple Watch, Apple Watch Sport, and Apple Watch Edition. Immersion has added AT&T to the lawsuit because AT&T sells Apple products and offers guides, directions, and other materials that "encourage and facilitate infringing use by others."

Immersion's patent lawsuit, in which the company requests a jury trial and seeks compensatory damages, is accompanied by a second complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission, seeking an inclusion order to prevent the sale of the accused Apple devices in the United States.

Article Link: Immersion Files Second Haptic Feedback Lawsuit Against Apple

 

[GFLPraxis]

Does anyone know what the outcome was of the original lawsuit?

Immersion is an actual company, not a patent troll. That said, it can be hard to tell a legitimately stolen-from company apart from a desperate company grasping at straws.

 

[goobot]

Lmao for the reason including att.

 

[Col4bin]

If Apple were to disclose all of its patent infringement lawsuit settlement amounts, I wonder how much it would actually add up to?

 

[Brad9893]

Why are they suing AT&T? Every other major carrier in the US also sells the iPhone 6s. They should also be suing Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint with that logic! And hey, why not Best Buy and other retailers too while they are at it? It makes no sense to me, unless they are just trying for a money grab.

 

[Pbrutto]

A quick scan of their website reveals.....well very little....who buys their products?

 

[Windlasher]

Why are they just including AT&T? Every other major carrier in the US also sells the iPhone 6s.

I would guess that the reason is that the more lawsuits you have open at once, the more likely it is that you will lose one of them and set precedent that might cause you to lose the others.

Also Lawsuits are expensive especially against someone like Apple.

I can't wait for patent reform so these jerks will actually have to work for a living.

 

[Stella]

A quick scan of their website reveals.....well very little....who buys their products?

This company have been around for years. Logitech used their technology back in the 1990s for a range of mice.

In late 2000s, Nokia licensed their technology for their phones.

Since the company is still alive, we can assume they've got customers today...

They certainly are not patent trolls... their technology is being actively used.

 

[Porco]

"Don't use the Force Touch, Immersion Files. Don't let go (of those patents) Immersion Files!"

- "They've turned their computer on. Immersion Files, you've turned on your lawsuit-targeting computer. What's wrong?"

 

[apolloa]

Good for you Immersion, go get em.

I do believe that Immersion INVENTED/ INNOVATED/ DEVELOPED/ BROUGHT TO MARKET the technologies it is suing for.

Here is the previous story highlighting how they actually make their stuff, they are NOT patent trolls as the Apple apologists will have you believe:

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/11/immersion-haptic-feedback-apple-lawsuit/

If companies want to use others technologies they need to pay to do so.

 

[keysofanxiety]

This company have been around for years. Logitech used their technology back in the 1990s for a range of mice.

In late 2000s, Nokia licensed their technology for their phones.

Yet the first 20 search engine results for Immersion Files are all about this lawsuit. I'm sure you'll admit that in itself doesn't sit right.

And I can't begin to number the amount of '90s/'00 companies who are either now completely bankrupt, utterly insignificant, or riding the coat-tails of ancient patents. Their most recent patent which they're suing for in this case was from 2003.

 

[Stella]

They are defending their IP... I think you'll agree that is not uncommon.


If you go to their news page, you'll see they are an active company with more recent 2016 customers...

Yet the first 20 search engine results for Immersion Files are all about this lawsuit. I'm sure you'll admit that in itself doesn't sit right.

And I can't begin to number the amount of '90s/'00 companies who are either now completely bankrupt, utterly insignificant, or riding the coat-tails of ancient patents. Their most recent patent which they're suing for in this case was from 2003.

 

[apolloa]

Yet the first 20 search engine results for Immersion Files are all about this lawsuit. I'm sure you'll admit that in itself doesn't sit right.

And I can't begin to number the amount of '90s/'00 companies who are either now completely bankrupt, utterly insignificant, or riding the coat-tails of ancient patents. Their most recent patent which they're suing for in this case was from 2003.

So Apple has a right to steal their technology they invented and still hold patents for, because you think they are suspect and insignificant?
And when I google them I just get their website and other sites by them, no top hit news stories about their lawsuits?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Since Immersion's stock is worth 1/2 of what is was in NOV 2015, I'm guessing they need money.

Apple should just buy them with pocket change and quash the lawsuit.

 

[Mascots]

Just read the patents and the outcome isn't looking too good for Apple.

We'll have to see if Apple chooses to settle or not. If Apple can't hold some of their key patents as the outcome of the Samsung trial, I bet they'll be attempting to invalidate these in the same style.

One patent is more damning than the other, and Apple definitely infringed. I don't think purposely - the idea is vague enough to include the entire range of device usage of Force and 3D Touch - but also represents an idea that certainly could have coincidentally crossed.

Either way, they're pretty vague as far as implementation and instead focus on interactions, so that'll be Apple's case if they choose to go that route. If not they'll def be settling and paying royalties.

Edit: oops read two, didn't see there were four.

 

[SteveJobs2.0]

Apple should have paid for the patent since they knew that a legitimate company would sue. This is another example of Tim Cook's Apple looking at eveything through cost reduction measures. They figured that the expected costs of a potential lawsuit were lower than the licensing and so they copied instead of doing the right thing and licensing.

 

[sw1tcher]

A quick scan of their website reveals.....well very little....who buys their products?

Since their technologies are found in products from Logitech, Microsoft, Sony, Motorola, Google, Samsung, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Facebook (via Oculus Rift), medical device manufacturers, etc., I'd say hundreds of millions of people have bought and continue to buy their products.

 

[Shirasaki]

"Hit the enemy when it hurts"? I am not sure.

 

[jclo]

Does anyone know what the outcome was of the original lawsuit?

Immersion is an actual company, not a patent troll. That said, it can be hard to tell a legitimately stolen-from company apart from a desperate company grasping at straws.

The first lawsuit is still underway -- it was only filed in February. Here's some more detail from a press release today:

The ITC instituted an investigation on March 14, 2016, and scheduled a claim construction hearing on July 20, 2016, a hearing on November 14-18, 2016, an initial determination date of February 17, 2017 and a target date for completion of the investigation of June 19, 2017. The District Court action has been stayed until the determination of the ITC becomes final.

Immersion has won lawsuits against Sony, settled out of court with Microsoft and Google, and has royalty agreements with Samsung.

 

[captain cadet]

A quick scan of their website reveals.....well very little....who buys their products?

Companies that sell technologies to other companies tend to keep a low profile on the web to try to stop other people from trying to reverse engineer them

 

[sw1tcher]

Since Immersion's stock is worth 1/2 of what is was in NOV 2015, I'm guessing they need money.

Apple should just buy them with pocket change and quash the lawsuit.

Stock price has nothing to do with a company's finances. Immersion has plenty of money. They ended 2015 with cash on hand and short term investments of $64.93 million. They have $0 debt and have been debt free for many years. Their gross profit margin is 97.7%, so they're highly profitable.

 

[blackcrayon]

Why does the original lawsuit include the iPhone 6 and 6 plus? Everything else seems to be a haptic feedback/force/3d touch device, while the iPhone 6 just has the conventional vibrate every iPhone before it had.

Stock price has nothing to do with a company's finances. Immersion has plenty of money. They ended 2015 with cash on hand and short term investments of $64.93 million. They have $0 debt and have been debt free for many years. Their gross profit margin is 97.7%, so they're highly profitable.

But their finances do indicate it would be relatively easy for Apple to buy if they were for sale Only a couple hundred million in market capital.

 

[rekhyt]

Good for you Immersion, go get em.

I do believe that Immersion INVENTED/ INNOVATED/ DEVELOPED/ BROUGHT TO MARKET the technologies it is suing for.

Here is the previous story highlighting how they actually make their stuff, they are NOT patent trolls as the Apple apologists will have you believe:

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/11/immersion-haptic-feedback-apple-lawsuit/

If companies want to use others technologies they need to pay to do so.

Wrong link? Clicked the article, doesn't look like they make anything.

Patent troll.

 

[Norbs12]

So patent on haptic feedback, a concept many are familiar with just have not executed on much. That's great. How about patent digital camera but making the patent sound obscure with something something coverting photons a electrical signal. Oh right, kodak did do that.

 

[tw1ll]

Just read the patents and the outcome isn't looking too good for Apple.

We'll have to see if Apple chooses to settle or not. If Apple can't hold some of their key patents as the outcome of the Samsung trial, I bet they'll be attempting to invalidate these in the same style.

One patent is more damning than the other, and Apple definitely infringed. I don't think purposely - the idea is vague enough to include the entire range of device usage of Force and 3D Touch - but also represents an idea that certainly could have coincidentally crossed.

Either way, they're pretty vague as far as implementation and instead focus on interactions, so that'll be Apple's case if they choose to go that route. If not they'll def be settling and paying royalties.

Edit: oops read two, didn't see there were four.

Isn't the whole system of IP protection somewhat crazy? There seem to be large numbers of fundamental patents that are blatant attempts to provide blanket coverage of concepts that are fairly self-evident and required little or no effort to actually create (evidenced by the vaugueness you refer to). I assume the only reason start-ups don't get sued is they don't have deep enough pockets initially to be worth doing so?