Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
We have to edit and compress files for 6 different cable providers. Just cor Xfinity we have to re compress 8 movies per week into H264 and it takes around 6 hours each just because stinky Compressor only recognizes one core. The new Compressor is multicore but does not talk to FCP 7 so we have to render the movie in FCP 7 in native format (Pro res 422) = 1.5 hours and then to H264 = 4 hours in Compressor 4. This is so clumsy even for early 90's standards.



LOL!!! Just export your movie as a quicktime reference file (doesnt take long at all) then put it through using compressor with a cluster (either the cluster of processors in one mac or use more than one mac with Q-master).

How many years have you been doing this the wrong way? :confused:
 
A perfect example of someone who doesn't look to the future. Someday, once FCPX is fully featured, we should return to this forum for a few chuckles.
A perfect example of someone who doesn't work in the industry and only makes assumptions. As much as I understand and respect a strategy involving burning the ships behind you, it seems that Apple is burning them while people are still on board. Also, how do you know that FCPX will become fully featured?
You can't import older FCP files? Since when opening previous versions' files is a feature??

But I enjoyed you waving your expertise in my face to somehow attempt to salvage your self-image...
No, he showed you that there is the personal element in the discussion. You may talk about future strategies and whatnot, but in reality this is a problem for people who are currently working.

FCPX is at its core a much better product than FCP7 was, it's just lacking in many features, but that will change. I think if you're incapable of seeing that, then my previous statement stands.
Incapable of seeing what? Again, how do you know how it will change??

You don't have experience of software design and software sales though, so surely you should leave it up to the people who do. Apple. They have a plan that you may not fully understand, gramps. What's best for *you* is not what's necessarily best for the end user, the industry or their target consumer moving forward.
And what would that plan be? Btw, you are being patronizing too by stating that he doesn't get "the plan". And he is a part of the industry, he is the end user. And why should he have experience in software design? Nonsense. He knows what he needs for his work.

Actually, they removed $700 from the previous price. Don't you notice it?
Just wait until you start paying for plug-ins to get back your missing features.


Frankly, I like that Apple pushes into new territories all the time, but sometimes it is a bit too quick.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are a group of non-editors who work with video who do what I call a monkey assemble. They aren't conversant in the language of film, let alone editing, but they get hired as the "hands" for an editor. They are trained in rote memorization- push button X to accomplish task Y.

They have no appreciation for moving the industry forward, all they know is that their training is obsolete. Since they don't have talent (or haven't developed it) this hurts their job prospects.

These people hated the original final cut. They hated the original iMovie. They hated iMovie 08, and predictably they hate Final Cut X. They always hate it and then years later they complain when Apple makes things better with a new release and act as if the old release-- which they originally hated-- was the greatest thing.

The only thing they DO like is paying full price every other year when Adobe marketing ups the version number of premiere. Since premiere never advances, they are happy with this because none of their training is obsoleted.

This is also why they go on and on about how "professional" they are. The thing is, editing is editing. Whether you're a teenager, a film school kid, working a weekly-- or even nightly-- TV series, you're still editing. The language is the language.

Final Cut Pro X is a tool, finally, that makes the ability to *edit* vastly better. This is true for everybody-- professionals like me, and all the way down to wedding photographers! ( Just kidding, I respect wedding photographers, they do a job I would never be able to tolerate, just joking because so many of these "professionals" look down their noses at wedding photographers.)

The people complaining aren't really editors.

Apple, as always, is dragging them kicking and screaming into the future.
 
I really don't understand anyone on here, why has it been ruined?

We knew what its been like for a couple of months, I've had it since it came out the other day. At the moment i've been editing a wedding video with it and its been top notch, so easy to use compared to FCP 7 miles faster too, I cant wait the the next revisions, because its only going to get better & faster.

I think some of the pro's out here are getting worried that video editing is going to be made "child's play"
and that some of the learned skills wont be required as much.

Then there's also the teachers on the editing training courses who are going to be out of jobs. I'm a Media Production student at college so use to do a lot of editing using Premiere and FCS3, but I am really liking Final Cut Pro X

The old FCP 7 was okay, but even me being Apple's biggest fanboy had to say it couldn't rival Premiere, the technologies it was running on where accident and it was beyond sluggish even on my MBP with 8 gig of ram, express did run better, but then it lacked some of the pro features, it was about time of an overhaul :)
 
A perfect example of someone who doesn't work in the industry and only makes assumptions.

Speaking of assumptions, you assume he doesn't work in the industry.

Also, as someone who's been editing since it required a fancy razor blade, custom tape and lining up sprocket holes, I am getting tired of seeing the fallacy of argument from false authority.

If you have an argument, make it. If your argument rests on a claim that you "work in the industry" or are a "professional", you've already lost (logically.)

If you're an editor, then you should appreciate when the state of the art is advanced like it has here. If you're a technician, you're going to complain because your tools changed.
 
I think some of the pro's out here are getting worried that video editing is going to be made "child's play" and that some of the learned skills wont be required as much

That's an excellent point. Those who rely on talent, are happy to have a tool that lets them better express their talent. Those who rely on learned skills, are unhappy to have their tool changed, and possibly the need for "assistants" like them diminished.

Prediction: These FCP X threads will read like this in a couple years.

To me, they already do. And I remember being on slashdot listening to them whine about the original iPod and predict its failure.

They complained about the original final cut.

They complained about the original imovie.

They complained about imovie 08.

People predicted the iphone would be a disaster.

They said the ipad sounded like a feminine hygene product.

They laughed at the iMac.

In a way, this kind of reaction is to be expected when you release a revolutionary product.... so this absurdness is probably a very good sign for final cut!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The app will eventually be fine, I'm sure, although the "dumbing-down" criticism has some validity -- Apple is clearly simplifying their pro apps for the great middle region of market share. But they could've saved themselves a lot of hate mail by 1) Releasing FCPX quietly, soft selling it as a v. 1 that will improve over time, and 2) Allowing FCP7 or the whole suite to continue to be sold. Hell, they could even put the studio set on the App Store collectively or individually, and even for the same price. That way they don't have to spend money to make, ship, stock physical copies of something they eventually want people to stop buying... I mean, they have the code, it's paid for, just put it on the server. Isn't that the genius of the App Store approach from a distribution standpoint? Then there wouldn't be anything to complain about -- one stable product that has adherents, and one fresh up-and-comer that people will continue to get excited about as it improves.

It's a corporate culture thing, and the Apple haters out there do have a bit of a point. This company is growing tremendously more control-freaky with increasing success. The vertically-integrated, walled-garden thing, which has its costs and benefits. They (Steve) have products that work great together so that you won't need anything else -- that's the line -- but in addition to that, says Apple, we're going to tell you how to use the products and forbid you from using them another way, because, well, we've already thought of the best way and you should just trust us.
 
Speaking of assumptions, you assume he doesn't work in the industry.
Fair enough.

If you're an editor, then you should appreciate when the state of the art is advanced like it has here. If you're a technician, you're going to complain because your tools changed.
As I said, advances are always welcome. Sometimes they come too fast though. You tell me what you think about the inability to import older FCP files.
Also, everybody is talking about advancing the industry, but forget to look at the more human element. Those technicians you are talking about have every right to be unhappy. Rather than telling them that it is a necessary evil, the replies are mostly "you are lazy whiners".

And I also don't understand statements like "Apple know better" or "Apple have a plan". These aren't arguments at all.

And one more thing: do you really disagree that there are very important features missing?
 
I make 120K a year and I have 8 video editors, I handle and 3 graphic stations for 4 different cable channels... I am in the right field , sorry your lack of experience can make you see beyond your nose.

Experience, that is why I say to step aside and let the one who know do the talking. As Henry Ford said: if I ask my costumer what they want they will say "faster horses".

Sounds like you don't do any actual editing. Sounds like you have a workflow built around a tool. And now you're complaining because someone released a different tool for a different workflow.

Apple gave you a car, and you're complaining because you can't feed it hay, the sugar isn't having the desired effect and it won't fit in your barn stall!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did they really believe it would be able to open up existing projects

No, no one thought we would even need to question it. It was probably the last thing on everyone's mind's. It's kinda a given in a professional product environment.

If Adobe made the next Photoshop with half the capability of the last one and unable to open old Photoshop files the world would implode...

Apple introduced FCPX and looked at the current FCP user base and said:

"Ok...so you can stay on FCP7 if you want, but we're not gonna support it anymore and it may not run on our new OS or any of our new hardware. FCPX is what we have now. It's missing a lot of features and it currently doesn't work with most of your 3rd party hardware or pipelines. Oh, and it can't open any of your old projects, sorry. Get used to FCPX or get out."

Very professional...

It's not up to Apple to tell me how I should edit. With the inception of FCP, Apple has been listening to us and has updated FCP with things that we needed and mattered to us. Sure it needed an update, but started over was a bit extreme. They just scrapped everything we've been used to and gave us X. I would have been happy with a straight 64bit port of FCP7.

Change is great, but Apple threw the baby out with the diaper...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You tell me what you think about the inability to import older FCP files.

I think it is unclear if that is a cost of the upgrade, or if that is an oversight, or if that's a feature that is under development but that was problematic and had to be pulled from shipping because it wasn't yet ready.

Make a decision to upgrade or not with that limitation in mind. It is quite possible that the idea of "importing FCP files" is actually as meaningless as execting pages to be able to import numbers files. The underlying concepts and structure may be completely radically different.

Final Cut is a product of the 1990s. This is 2011. Think about how much computers have changed since then. Consequently the appropriate data structures are radically different. Apple may have needed to make a break to allow for growth in the modern era and picked this spot to do it.

Nobody says you have to switch over. If that's a deal breaker for you, save your $300.

The problem is, saying that this dealbreaker for you somehow means the product sucks or that anyone who appreciates its advantages is an amateur or doesn't know what they're doing.
 
The app will eventually be fine, I'm sure, although the "dumbing-down" criticism has some validity

I remember when DOS adherents would denigrate the Mac as the computer for the computer illiterate. My career has been in software (video software but also am a filmmaker.)

The Mac being easier to use meant that those who were proficient got more done faster.

You don't see programmers complaining that Xcode is dumbed down from working in the command line... instead we laugh at those unix weenies stuck in the command line.

I see nothing dumbed down about final cut. I think the idea that computers need to be difficult to use, and such difficulty is superior to be ... quaint.

Apple introduced FCPX and looked at the current FCP user base and said:

Apple said none of those things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe they are actually very serious about new FCPX and it will have all required features very soon.

If all required features are "soon", then they should have just held up release until they were in there. But I have a feeling that "soon" will be a year from now.

I could be wrong and actually hope I am.
 
The problem is, saying that this dealbreaker for you somehow means the product sucks or that anyone who appreciates its advantages is an amateur or doesn't know what they're doing.
Oh no, that's absolutely not my point. Personally, that is in fact the product for me. What I am trying to say is that many of those who are unhappy have very valid points. That is pretty much it.
 
I remember when DOS adherents would denigrate the Mac as the computer for the computer illiterate. My career has been in software (video software but also am a filmmaker.)

The Mac being easier to use meant that those who were proficient got more done faster.

You don't see programmers complaining that Xcode is dumbed down from working in the command line... instead we laugh at those unix weenies stuck in the command line.

I see nothing dumbed down about final cut. I think the idea that computers need to be difficult to use, and such difficulty is superior to be ... quaint.

I didn't say it should be difficult to use. But they haven't yet added features that pros use daily, yet released the product anyway. It's simply not finished yet, because you can't continue on working, simply starting your next project with it if you're a pro. The dumbing-down I refer to is stuff that soccer moms might need: themes, templates, **** like that that real creatives won't go near. Aperture is the same way, with Faces and Places and faux-corkboard backgrounds and larger cartoony icons and such. I use it and like it, but it did have that iPhoto Pro vibe when it added that kind of stuff.

For FCPX, pro editors of movies and TV shows, some of whom have built whole workflows based on this product need bins, not facial recognition... need OMF export, stuff like that. Soccer moms with the family vacation and podcast guys and low-impact editors don't. Like I said, it'll all eventually appear, I'm sure, but they should've just slipped this one out as an up-and-comer, rather than as Revolutionary! Magical! If You Don't Like It, You're a Luddite! This Is The New Way! and discontinuing the previous product, even as an App Store-only offering. Which is the customary way you would evolve/transition the marketplace.
 
If all required features are "soon", then they should have just held up release until they were in there. But I have a feeling that "soon" will be a year from now.

I could be wrong and actually hope I am.

Releasing now gave them a lot of very importand feedback (not talking about whiners here). If they released 6 months from now they would be doing the same thing, but they would have wasted 6 months.
 
Look mom, no manual! I can edit!

Apple's giving consumers the tools to become prosumers.

Smartest thing ever.

Will this work on my iPad? Now I can teach grandma to edit and she'll actually understand.

Welcome to the new reality. Everyone's a pro now. How does that make you feel? I can learn FCPX in no time now and do some hot-**** work, just like the big boys. Then I'll post my creations online. YouTube? Nah, screw that. I'll stream it thru Twitter. Instagram . . . Instareel? Sounds nice.

Simplify, simplify, simplify, but still keep the damn thing powerful, and make Joe Average not so average anymore.

Purple haze, guys. Just drop a few and sit down with Apple's creative tools. iPad version's available too.

Apple = populist approach to "complicated computing." We're all Pros now.
 
Releasing now gave them a lot of very importand feedback (not talking about whiners here). If they released 6 months from now they would be doing the same thing, but they would have wasted 6 months.

Actually that's a good point. But they certainly could have handled it differently and not just killed the old Final Cut Studio until the new one was up to snuff.
 
I'll tell you what the biggest problem is with FCPX; the users. Had FCPX been all they'd ever known or used, it would be the best thing since sliced bread, and they "wouldn't be able to work without it". The same FUD was spread around when iMovie '08 was first released - people moaned and whined like no tomorrow, for the simple reason that they weren't used to that way of working, but do you ever hear iMovie complaints en masse, now? Nope.

We all get comfortable in our surroundings - a bit like settling into a home after a number of years. We may be offered one 10 times the size, with all the modern conveniences and time saving gizmos, but we like our home, because we have settled into it, regardless of the cold logic and efficiency that may prevail by moving to the bigger, newer house.

People are the biggest obstacle - they stubbornly refuse to accept change, no matter whether bad or good, and that is a part of human nature. We often cannot see past the end of our noses, no matter how "modern" and "cutting edge" we feel we are.

An example of this is the fact that we fool ourselves into thinking we're all ultra high-tech and modern, with our amazing interfaces, touchscreen iPhones, i7 iMacs and jQuery web UIs... but then when you consider what powers all this technology, it is a massive crash back down to earth - we're still burning coal which is dug out of the ground using hard, back-breaking labour. COAL - dirty, smelly, inefficient... but because we cannot see the source of our power, we ignore the problem. As far as we're concerned, we plug in the MacBook, and it comes on. Period.

My point is that there is always a better and more efficient way of doing something, but no matter how much better FCPX may be than previous versions, there will always be an uproar when something new is released, because people are scared, and partially (or wholly, it seems) unwilling to accept that tape & DVD are dying formats, and because Apple have seen far beyond that horizon of their inevitable death, and made something better suited to eliminate clunky, old fashioned formats, they don't like it, because they feel alienated and threatened.

It is indeed revision 1.0 of FCPX, but could be seen as revision *4* of iMovie, in a way - it's not as if Apple haven't had four years of experience and feedback, upon which to judge the failure or success of this new interface and workflow methodology. The things that are missing will gradually come to be patched in again through updates, but it is by no means a "bad" product at all, we're just stuck in our ways, and refuse to give things a chance. The avalanche of complaints and bad reviews is the sum total of just a few days of use - that's hardly a reasonable amount of time to get to know the software in depth, discovering all its' little quirks and hidden gems, deep in the UI & workflow.

See beyond the surface, and "think different" to the way in which you are used to thinking - is this not what Mac users always used to proclaim? Try something new, give it six months of daily use, and then you'll be suitably qualified to moan and deride it, if it still doesn't achieve the same product at the end, albeit with less pain and inefficiency.

Humans are creatures of habit; therein lies probably the biggest barrier to using FCPX. If you've used iMovie, you're already used to the slicker, newer and more intuitive way of working. It takes getting used to, but is that not worth some investment? I think so, and I think we should stick with it, because Apple rarely fail with a product - why should this be an exception to that rule?

Is the truth of the matter that we feel threatened? The skills and long-winded techniques that we have grown to use over many years, are now consolidated into a couple of mouse clicks - something simple, that even the novice can achieve? Is it that this incredible software has the potential to turn many, MANY more of those who were put off older versions of FCP due to the scaryness and complex interface, into people who can finally realise their creative visions, and turn that into something visible? Do you feel undermined, and less "professional" because the unemployed girl in the flat next door, living on £65 a week, now has the potential and the toolset to produce something that, in time, could rival your work, albeit with less investment in those "skills" you had to sweat over for weeks, because Apple have purged the clunky UI and inefficiency out of the product, so that it makes more sense? It may not make more sense if you are used to doing things the silly, long-winded way, but the end product will look the same, so why not?

Walk into using FCPX with a fresh perspective, and forget that you've convinced yourself it is a bad product, and ignore all others around you who slate it, and then you'll almost certainly grow to love it.

PS: I'm a software engineer, and also a Premiere Pro editor (lesser, but learning), After effects creative, and general Mac/Linux/Windows geek. I don't tell myself I am professional, but everyone else does, and I still cannot work out why. Maybe it's because I don't strut about proclaiming to be professional and know more than everyone else, or telling others that their way is "wrong", even if I may think it to myself. I have zero qualifications in software science, editing or anything computer based, but people from all over seem to think I am brilliant, and tell me often :$ and even my friend who owns a computer shop calls me up for advice on a regular basis - how's that for flattery! :)

My point? You're as skilled as you are - no matter what you tell yourself or others. Words on a certificate don't make you any better than anyone else, and years of skills and shortcuts you may have learned, that have now been replaced by drag 'n' drop, don't make you any "better", just because the way you learned to do that, was 10x as hard as it is now in just two mouse clicks. Software is starting to reach a stage where the masses can edit, focusing on the creative process, and not the six month learning curve of importing differing file formats & framerates, or the locking of tracks so as not to punch them out of sync through not knowing any better, and then struggling for 3 days trying to fix the mess.

We all have potential, and Apple help us realise it, so give FCPX the chance *we all* deserve.
 
Last edited:
Apple's giving consumers the tools to become prosumers.

Smartest thing ever.

Will this work on my iPad? Now I can teach grandma to edit and she'll actually understand.

Welcome to the new reality. Everyone's a pro now. How does that make you feel? I can learn FCPX in no time now and do some hot-**** work, just like the big boys. Then I'll post my creations online. YouTube? Nah, screw that. I'll stream it thru Twitter. Instagram . . . Instareel? Sounds nice.

Simplify, simplify, simplify, but still keep the damn thing powerful, and make Joe Average not so average anymore.

Purple haze, guys. Just drop a few and sit down with Apple's creative tools. iPad version's available too.

Apple = populist approach to "complicated computing." We're all Pros now.

Uhhh... please?

Just stop it already.
 
Welcome to the new reality. Everyone's a pro now. How does that make you feel? I can learn FCPX in no time now and do some hot-**** work, just like the big boys.

Apple = populist approach to "complicated computing." We're all Pros now.
Uh-oh. I guess, you now have some of the old-school big boys are foaming with rage about your stance. ;)

I agree. Only a few years ago, video editing was either a serious and time-consuming hobby or your job. I personally never could (or wanted) to figure iMovie 06. Found iMovie '08 a breeze to figure out and get something done with quickly.

Actually that's a good point. But they certainly could have handled it differently and not just killed the old Final Cut Studio until the new one was up to snuff.
That wouldn't have been Apple-like at all.
Apple likes to make strong statements about their transitions.

FCP 7 is the end of the road for old-school Final Cut. The future is X.
Software distribution is moving to digital downloads, even if many people still have to live without broadband.

Thus, FCP 7 is discontinued, FCPX & Lion are app-store only (no DVDs at all).
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.