In defense of Mac?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Gokunama, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. Gokunama macrumors 6502a


    Sep 13, 2008
    I'm getting a lot of heat from Window fanboys about buying aMac, and admittedly I don't know enough to even start in defense, I just grew up on a Mac, and find them easier to use and longer lasting.

    The following is an attachment one of the Window fanboys posted.. help would be awesome, more in the line of stats, numbers, cost, reasons why a professional IT company would choose to use Macs, etc...

    Go to the ninth post, attachments are showing as a question mark, and the image linked from Photobucket comes out too small to read here.
  2. SuperJudge macrumors 6502


    Apr 2, 2008
    The Triangle, NC
    Do you have it in a legible size? That might help. :p

    As an IT Professional, I can say that there are plenty of valid reasons for using a Mac. Basically though, I wouldn't worry about what people have to say. Computing is a very personal thing. Haters to the left.
  3. ValSalva macrumors 68040


    Jun 26, 2009
    Burpelson AFB
    Can you could post a link to a full size version of the image? This one is impossible to read and thus comment on. Though one can probably predict the line of thinking of someone who concludes "Don't get a Mac." :rolleyes:
  4. Gokunama thread starter macrumors 6502a


    Sep 13, 2008
    Sorry, I edited my post with a link to the thread. Basically a lot of posts in that two page thread, but I'll post their comments in quotes soon.
  5. SuperJudge macrumors 6502


    Apr 2, 2008
    The Triangle, NC
    Nobody with a clue buys the extra RAM or HDs as a BTO. That's dumb and that's the thrust of the argument and that's something that everyone who buys Mac should know: DON'T BUY YOUR UPGRADES FROM APPLE. Dell and HP have the same ridiculous markups in the workstation market. Those points are quite valid, to be sure, but not a reason to not buy a Mac.

    The Mac Pro is a workstation, not a consumer grade machine. People need to realize this. You're paying extra for hardware/OS integration on a machine that needs to run for weeks on end. For most of the people that buy them, Mac Pros make money, not cost it.
  6. stridemat Moderator


    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2008
    Everyone is entitled to thier opinions. Let them have their's with the PC is better than the Mac and you stick to yours.

    Best way as neither side ever wants to back down.
  7. Argon21 macrumors member

    Jun 25, 2010
    Алейск, RUSSIA
    Why do you feel the need to justify your choice? You are confident in the choice you made, it's superiority over competing products, and the value it represents to you. Tell him to piss off. Remember that mocking or insulting someone else is a solid symptom of jealousy. Perhaps your friend is the one feeling a lack of confidence in his own choices?

    As for the BTO options, *every* manufacturer has a large markup on those. Ram, hard drives, you name it. You cannot compare the Apple BTO option prices to the raw OEM component prices on Newegg. You have to compare the Apple BTO option prices to the BTO options that Dell or IBM or HP offer you on their PC's. And when you do that, you'll see they're just about the same, and cheaper in some cases.

    As for the build-it-yourself peecee argument, what do you do there for support? You have a dozen different components from a dozen different manufacturers. That means you have to deal with a dozen different companies to get warranty support. Lets say you have an incompatibility problem, and your VGA card vendor blames it on the motherboard, and your motherboard vendor blames it on the VGA card, well now you're stuck in the middle and you're screwed. With a Mac, you have a single source for ALL support, hardware, software, everything.

    On that same note, because the Mac OS and the hardware come from the same company, they were both designed to work perfectly together. With Windows, you have the OS from one vendor, and you're installing drivers downloaded from all over the internet, to support a dozen other manufacturer's components. It's a compatibility and support nightmare.

    But back to my first paragraph - tell him to piss off. You're not going to change his mind, and he isn't going to change yours, so why bother even engaging in that discussion? It's like the Arab fighting with the Jew.
  8. Ravich macrumors 6502a

    Oct 20, 2009
    Portland, OR
    FFWA eh? Small world. Hi there.

    Anyway, here are some pointers:

    That picture of "why you shouldnt buy a mac" is really silly.

    -First off, why is it looking at the Mac Pro? Mac Pros are for professional usage, which is very different from the majority of people buying computers. The Mac Pro is in a complete world of its own among Apple Products.

    -Next, OSX cant be installed on any other PC. The closest thing available is a hackintosh, which is far from stable. As soon as some 12 year old in his parents' garage figures out how to run OSX on any computer hardware, then that will be a valid point. Until then, OSX is still a perk of buying a Mac.

    -Then it basically says "those processor upgrades are so expensive!" but really there is no basis for the complaint. They cost a lot of money. If you buy a Dell with the same processor, it's not going to be much cheaper. Whoever wrote that also displays poor knowledge of computer workings by suggesting that a 400 MHz increase in processor speed ON EIGHT CORES isnt going to be noticeable. Once again though, we're talking about the high end Mac Pro. Even most professional applications out there cant fully utilize 8 cores with hyperthreading, so I have no idea where this fits into the bulk of the mac vs pc question.

    -Then it complains about the price between upgrading from 6GB to 8GB, and completely fails to acknowledge that it is switching from 1GB modules to 2GB modules. Apple still charges too much for their RAM, but RAM is user serviceable on all macs, so I have no idea why that's an issue.

    -The rest of the stuff is just complaining about stuff that only applies to the Mac Pro and Apple displays which you dont need in order to get a mac, so it's silly to use it as basis for not getting a mac. Kind of like referencing the Mac Pro as an example for why macs arent good.

    -Then it goes and says that Apple computers are hard to upgrade when it just spent a whole bunch of time downtalking the only truly upgradeable mac.

    Other things:

    -People use their computer everyday for years, yet it is unacceptable to spend a few hundred extra collars on a computer even though it is totally normal to spend thousands of extra dollars on a car just because it will be cooler? Give me a ****ing break.

    -Furthermore, if someone doesnt want to spend their time troubleshooting or dealing problems down the line, why is it so wrong to spend extra money for something that has apple care available? Apple Care is fantastic. Anyone who doesnt acknowledge that as a significant mac advantage is kidding themselves.

    -The fact that Macs and PCs are both intel based now does NOT mean that the chances of hardware failure are the same. Cheap PCs are cheap because they use cheap parts.

    -Resell value. Macs retain their value extremely well, while PCs generally do not. If you're savvy enough to be able to sell your Mac after 2 or 3 years of use, it cuts down on the cost significantly.

    Yeah, that discussion is largely ridiculous. If you're pressed for cash and/or you like windows/do it yourself and would be afraid of what people thought of you if you bought a mac, then dont get one. Harping on and on about computers that cost a few hundred extra at this point in time is just stupid. Look at other luxuries we spend money on. I mean, jesus christ.
  9. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020


    Apr 16, 2008
    Phoenix, AZ
    Windows fan boys will always say these 3 things...

    1. I can build a system however I want. I can use any graphics card I want.

    2. My Crysis benchmarks pwn yours.

    3. PCs are cheaper.

    Now in response to arguments made in the 9th post of your linked thread, I find a lot of its logic flawed...

    1. The two Intel Xeon argument. Okay, it's clearly obvious here that this person doesn't know squat about Xeon workstations. There are very specific reasons why someone would want dual processors. In my field (video editing and post production), I'm constantly rendering video and After Effects compositions. I can never have enough power. The average consumer that surfs the web and plays games would have no use for Xeons and hence, probably no use for a Mac Pro. And in regards to complaint that upgrading to faster Xeons costs so much - well, blame that on Intel. Xeons are expensive and other workstation manufacturers like Dell and HP charge just as much for processor upgrades, if not more. And a 400MHz difference across 8 cores can be quite significant to some users.

    2. Memory. Most OEMs charge an arm and a leg for memory. No big news, here. Most people with sense buy it third party.

    3. RAID card. I'd love this guy to point out to us where on earth you could find a decent hardware RAID card for under $100. They don't exist. He probably doesn't even know what a real hardware RAID card is. Good cards have dedicated processors, cache memory and in a lot of cases, a battery backup. And those cards all cost $500 and up. And sorry, "fake RAID" controllers (which still use host CPU) like you get on some PC motherboards and on the cheapie cards don't count.

    4. Hard drives. Same idea as memory (from #2 above). Stick with the standard config drive and buy additional ones aftermarket.

    5. Displays. Let's not forget the fact that ACDs use 8-bit S-IPS panels and should be compared to other displays accordingly. Too many people are quick to point out that you can buy a 24" 1080p display for under $300 but don't realize what they're getting is a low-quality 6-bit TN panel.

    I use Macs because I'm a Final Cut Pro editor and I also happen to love OS X. Windows fan boys often forget that bottom line price doesn't always dictate the computer one would buy. But then again, most die hard Windows fan boys care about one thing and one thing only: games.
  10. THX1139 macrumors 68000


    Mar 4, 2006
    Why would you care what others think about the computer you buy? Is it a tool or a status symbol for you?

    That thread is full of adolescent geeks, so I don't know why you would expect a thoughtful reply. If you aren't getting the answer you want, then move on to another website instead hanging around defending Apple. Waste of time.
  11. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    I'm with the others. Why bother trying to justify your purchase of a Mac.
    you're happy with a mac, they're happy with their PC.

  12. ARF900 macrumors 65816


    Oct 30, 2009
    Just be annoying, just be like "Well I dont get viruses" in reply to everything he says.
  13. Gokunama thread starter macrumors 6502a


    Sep 13, 2008
    Naw, I enjoy debates, I've changed some views radically due to debates, and others I've solidified. It's one start to getting to know the ins and outs of the computer world.

    Thanks for all the replies, I've got a bit of ammo, and a bit more computer knowledge. Sort of a newbie here as I've avoided using my last two Window computers for anything serious due to all menus being in Japanese.
  14. sporadic macrumors newbie

    Jun 9, 2009
    Southampton, UK.
    PC gaming is daft anyway, most games are conversions from console, better to go straight to the source and not have to upgrade your system at all. :)
  15. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    Pretty much.

    True power users (whether pros, enthusiasts, whatever), will see the advantages to one system or another (including DIY) as they legitimately apply to them (i.e. ability to obtain more customization to suit their specific needs, including hardware that a software vendor created additional support for, such as professional graphics cards; usually published on some sort of Hardware Compatibility List). This also means they should know, or at least be able to realize the differences between SP and DP systems. ;)

    A true RAID card can be had for $300 (i.e. ARC-1210), but $100 is definitely laughable (Fake RAID controller is the same thing... Yeah right... :rolleyes: Idiots. :eek: :p).

    Valid point for sure, but it applies to most any of it really (PSU, GPU,...), as it's not uncommon for people to try and compare items incorrectly (i.e. consumer gear v. professional/enterprise grade).
  16. Grannyville7989 macrumors 6502a


    Aug 2, 2010
    I'm a long time Windows user but I have been a fan of Apple PCs too. I don't understand the flame wars between Windows, Mac and Linux fanboys. I think each one has their place. At the end of the day, it's what works best for you. I enjoy using Mac OS X but I tend to boot up Windows on my MacBook Pro more often because I'm more comfortable in that enviroment where I am more familiar with the keyboard shortcuts and how everything works. :)

    If you want an Apple PC, get a Mac.

    If you want a Windows PC, get a [insert PC brand of choice].

    If you want a Linux PC, get a [insert PC brand of choice] and install [insert Linux distro of choice].

    Though, I must admit, I do enjoy a little jokey banter with my friends at university at what's better. :p
  17. redkamel macrumors 6502

    Aug 29, 2006
    haha I had to respond cause that screenshot thing the guy posted is hilarious. Apparently he doesn't know MacPros are workstations, not game stations? I don't know. The thread looks like its for teens, but here goes for my own enjoyment....

    -3299 dollars: You could get a great PC for that much though, thats true. But you wont get an all aluminum case thats better than most (IMO all) cases out there, fully ventilated, clean cables, plus the base equipment, OSX etc. You wont get easy support for your workstation (where downtime is money), or a system built into the OS (ie drivers are tested by Apple). And again, this is workstation. It needs to be like that. Mac Pros last for years. Gaming PCs don't. A MacPro is made to run 24x7x365. Regular PC isn't. So he should be comparing prices to an entry level workstation.Workstations are for people where computer use time is money.

    -Thats how much it cost to upgrade Xeons. Going up 400 Mhz on two quad core Xeons is actually going up 3.2 ghz (over 8 cores), so that shows a lack of math skills right there.

    -Apple RAM is overpriced. Everyone knows that. Dell and HP RAM is overpriced. Does anyone on that board buy RAM from Dell/HP? I doubt it.

    -Again, same with the hard drives as the RAM. Its not like its difficult to install a hard drive.

    -Graphics cards are designed/specced for gaming performance usually. Apple graphics cards are not selected for gaming performance. Mac Pros are not for gaming. While it would be nice to have the latest cards, its not always needed. It would be nice, but not needed, to have a better one though.

    -100 bucks for a disc drive? Buy your own then. See RAM and HDs. Blu ray would be nice, but whatever. Me and my friend have work setups and we transport/store our data on drives, not discs. And we watch movies on the TV. So it BR wouldnt change much at least for me.

    -Someone else already went over the monitors.

    -Difficult to upgrade? Not a mac pro. Almost everything is a standard part except for the graphics card and mobo.

    -Apple consistently ranks highest in customer satisfaction and repair speed (in my experience; they overnighted my MBP to and from repairs. I drop it off Monday AM, new logic board and its back on my doorstep Thurs. No questions/calls after I drop it off at the store). People ask me how to do stuff on Windows/best software. Nobody asks me for OSX!

    You can reply to that guy, or laugh. Anyone who uses computers for things other than gaming knows his post makes no sense. Mac Pros are for processing large amounts of photos rapidly, video editing, 3D design, rendering over the weekend every weekend and for video encoding.

    If he is so concerned about price to performance, he should draw up a comparison of price/performance for a 400 dollar playstation vs a 1200-3000 dollar computer. If gamers want to play Crysis and starcraft II at max res on a $1000+ computer vs some other equally fun game on a 400 dollar lifespan console, thats their choice. Just like its your choice you have a workstation level Mac for your work. If he wants to talk workstations, (ie MacPro vs regular computer), he's comparing apples to oranges. He should be comparing imacs and regular computers. (Regular means not workstation).

    Thanks, his photoshop was my laugh for the afternoon.
  18. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Mar 1, 2010
    For one,ECC ram will always be more expensive then non-ECC ram.

    The argument on the price of upgrades or BTO options from apple always alludes me with custom PC builders. As they are allowed to choose from thousands of manufactures & retailers while expecting mac users to choose only parts from the apple store.

    A better example would be to compare upgrades from other brand name PC companies if they wanted to go that route.

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