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Hence, why so many people have stayed away from it for as long as possible. Recently, Microsoft has taken to being incredibly authoritarian. It's really as if they and Apple are in the same camps; that you don't know how to use a computer, and the parent company always knows best.

Amazing.
Which is why I will switch to PC/Linux in about 20 years if this is still the case then.
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Yeah thats not the case with the MBP3,1/4,1s there are still plenty of ones with defective GPUs running around, in-fact every single one sold at retail would of had a defective GPU its only if you got your machine serviced by Apple in 2010+ would you have gotten a revised and fixed GPU

what I would recommend if your looking to get a Pre unibody MBP is find a MBP4,1 that has a revised GPU already or find a nice looking MBP4,1 which has died from GPU failure get it nice and cheap and then enlist the services of @dosdude1 and have the GPU replaced :)

its also worth mentioning that with some slight hacking you can run 10.13.6 and currently even 10.14 on a MBP4,1 thanks to its Penryn CPU which supports SSE4.1 :)
I figured there would be workarounds and other stuff to know once I got to that point.

Right now though it's all just in the dreaming stages.
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From personal experience, I really haven't had any problems at all. On Intel, of course.

This is one of the situations where I think you really need experience with the subject before forming concrete opinions. Otherwise, it's just based on disinformation. It's an injustice.
Yeah, I agree. We'll see what happens in 20 years or so.

My only experience with Linux really is a few OS X terminal commands and speaking with the guy that maintained our work network back in 2000-2003. He was solidly a Linux guy and had no truck with OS9/OS X and Windows.
 
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My only experience with Linux really is a few OS X terminal commands and speaking with the guy that maintained our work network back in 2000-2003. He was solidly a Linux guy and had no truck with OS9/OS X and Windows.

OS X terminal commands is not Linux. At all. And 2000's Linux is a vastly different story than it is today.

Only so you'd be aware, I challenge you to create a Live USB (same as making a bootable OS X USB) and demoing a distribution or two for several minutes. Connect it to the Internet, download some applications, play with the UI. It will take 10 minutes. You can do this without installing anything onto your computer.

This is why I'm so quick to correct errors on the subject. Disinformation and outdated opinions are everywhere. It's utterly unfair.
 
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OS X terminal commands is not Linux. At all. And 2000's Linux is a vastly different story than it is today.

Only so you'd be aware, I'd strongly recommend creating a Live USB (same as making a bootable OS X USB) and demoing a distribution or two for several minutes. Connect it to the Internet, download some applications, play with the UI. It will take 10 minutes. You can do this without installing anything onto your computer.

This is why I'm so quick to correct errors on the subject. Disinformation and outdated opinions are everywhere. It's utterly unfair.
Yeah, I get that. My point of mentioning any of it was to simply reference my lack of knowledge about it.

Thanks, I may give your suggestion a try.
 
Whatever, linux droolz and OSX roolz.

:D

My last foray into Linux was quite pleasant. Aside from getting my WiFi card up n running (was found natively in leopard fwiw) the LUbuntu distro I used was pretty cool & snappy on a trashpicked mid 2000s compaq box which I ultimately donated to a family in need.

The best part was the community at the Ubuntu website - SUPER helpful in figuring out the WiFi. Very much like the folks here.
 
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I've been busy this summer too... I'd like to try using more of my PowerPCs this summer though for some more real life work! :D

Regarding Linux... I have a bit of experience (Ubuntu and Puppy Linux), granted it's all a bit outdated at this point too, but I used a 2001 ThinkPad from 2010-2013 running Ubuntu 10.04 (which was current at the time), and given the extremely low specs of the computer, it was plenty capable for internet and basic editing of documents, plus I could edit just about anything I wanted with the OS, which was kinda neat.

@eyoungren: Live CD/USBs are really cool, and from my experience, at least back in 2010, installation of Ubuntu was pretty seamless, especially if you just go the route of installing over whatever was on the drive, and only using Ubuntu. :p
 
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Installation has gotten seamless. I just got done installing MATE 18.04 today and Mint 19 two weeks ago, and I couldn't come up with any suggestions to make the installer easier. Even the Debian 9 installer is simple to follow, very similar to how you would install something like Windows XP.

For everyone who needs an update, I'd recommend elementary OS Juno (when it releases, probably this month), Linux Mint 19, and Debian 9. I would say Ubuntu MATE 18.04, but it's a little buggy at the moment. Perhaps wait until its first point release drops (again, which should be sometime this month).

Rant 1: This is what I'm talking about. Aside from not being able to run proprietary applications like Adobe Creative Suite and Microsoft Office, modern Linux has a bad desktop reputation for very little reason. People like to trash it before ever giving it a chance, and people like me try to come in and defend it, give a little insight, and end up being labeled a fanboy.

Rant 2: But for one, in my life, at least Linux can properly partition a disk. At least it can drag photos to your desktop without complaining. At least it doesn't spy on you, force updates on you, look like it was ripped directly from a smartphone, or think it's a smarter, better qualified user than you are. The other two operating systems don't do what I want them to do, and will fight me otherwise. I'm sure I'm not the only case.
 
I expect at least one Mac Pro by the end of the year.

I hope for the MBP A1261 by the end of the year. It's the last 17" MBP that has the same body style as the Aluminum PowerBooks and it can run OS X El Capitan and can be maxxed at 6GB ram. That's enough to ensure my internet couch surfing and online bill paying for a while.

Just like it was with my G5s it's a matter of aligning all the financial moving parts. We just bought a house at the end of the school year and are struggling to get through the summer until school starts again. That should start to rectify itself by the end of July, but it's been a long two months of not having any money at all.

Looking for the 17" A1261 is searching the Blue Flower. It may cross your ways when time being ...

Until then the 15" A1260 / 2.4GHz / 4GB-RAM is to Book to look for.
Got a few of them for me, family-members and friends recently at prices from 70-130 bucks.
A 120-250GB SSD comes at decent prices now and the inbuilt drive serves well as a CCC-clone-backup.
The 2.5GHz models seem to be more prone of being affected by GPU-failure. But the remaining working 2.4GHz units seem to be the diehards w/o GPU-problems ...

All of them Books get pretty darn hot in the middle of the backside of the bottom. I use iLap-stands for all of my Apple-Books most of the time (and giving a unit away as a present always includes an iLap-stand and a BassJump -woofer. Unfortunately the latter get rare now.) Sometimes even cooling-pads from the fridge.

El Capitan runs smooth. Fusion/Win2k as well. BootCamp/Win7 should be also fine, but virtual WinXP is a bit struggling and fans are often strained (despite of that, I've mirrored my complete Office-workplace on a WinXP-VM). Don't know, how Win7 would do on a VM - but a BootCamp-Installation could be fired-up within Fusion, which is a big advantage. (Compared to my 2011 i5 ASUS U30SD NB the A1260 feels to be miles ahead!)
As for legacy OS X: Leopard Server runs fine as a VM (but a separate Leopard/SL BootCamp-Partition can't be used with Fusion)

The 15" A1260 2.4Ghz MBP is my daily driver for a year now and only heavy-duty batch-scanning/OCR is done by a more capable machine. With Safari/Firefox/Opera currently all web/streaming-related stuff works fine, but forget about 4k-movies. Anyway, sitting in front of the MBP and enhanced with a BassJump is a great experience.

The next best thing beyond the early 2008 A1260/A1261 c2d MBP are the mid-2009 c2d Books.
Even if I most like the design of the late-2008-unibody MB(P) with large battery/harddrive-door and easy drive-swapping, those models lack of poor battery-performance, because the battery drains in standby-mode unpredictably fast.

Any MBP 2010-2011 at recent prices is only for gamblers. (I've been also fooled with a 2010 model/defective GPU. Never ever!).
The 2012 i5/i7 nrMBP-models are the last one to support custom SSD. They are reliable, but because of that they became very pricy. I'm afraid, they'll certainly left behind with macOS 10.15/16 too ...
 
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I hope for the MBP A1261 by the end of the year. It's the last 17" MBP that has the same body style as the Aluminum PowerBooks and it can run OS X El Capitan and can be maxxed at 6GB ram. That's enough to ensure my internet couch surfing and online bill paying for a while.

don't get that. it has the 8600M GT in it, which is very unreliable..
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203254

EDIT: this thread has some more info about that problem: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/early-intel-trash-or-treasure-macbook-pro-2008.2122634/
it's not specifically about this problem but it does have some useful information in it.
 
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Is it my sensation, or a lot of threads are becoming Linux discussion threads? We shouldn't go off topic just everytime somebody write the word "Linux"

I've noticed this too lol. I generally try to stay away from linux on PPC macs, unless I do it just for fun like on my iMac G3. If I'm collecting old macs I usually want them to be macs. I can run linux on literally anything else.

As far as the PPC challenge goes, linux is sort of cheating because you can run a supported version of it. The only limiting factor on PPCs is apples lack of software support for the old hardware. Windows 10 runs on 15 year old computers, that 15 year old computer is now perfectly usable for modern basic tasks, albeit slowly.
 
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Any MBP 2010-2011 at recent prices is only for gamblers. (I've been also fooled with a 2010 model/defective GPU. Never ever!).

While @eyoungren probably won't be interested in that size (;)), it's worth mentioning that the 2010/2011/2012 13inch MBPs lack discrete GPUs and are "safe" in this regard. The 2011 models are the newest and fastest MBPs that can natively run Snow Leopard, and it absolutely flies. I've been using a 2011 13inch MBP (2.3GHz/ 8 GB RAM/ 240 GB SSD) dual-booting Snow Leopard and Mavericks as my daily driver for two years now and it still handles everything I throw at it just fine.
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As far as the PPC challenge goes, linux is sort of cheating because you can run a supported version of it. The only limiting factor on PPCs is apples lack of software support for the old hardware. Windows 10 runs on 15 year old computers, that 15 year old computer is now perfectly usable for modern basic tasks, albeit slowly.

I suppose that depends on whether you see the PPC challenge as being about using a PPC Mac because of its architecture alone or about using a PPC Mac and an older version of Mac OS X.
 
True, but for the record...


for the record...

this is a horrible way of "Fixing" the issue its not even fixing it properly and your heating up other components in the laptop to dangerous levels the last thing you want on your hands is the battery going up...

if you have a MBP3,1/4,1 with a dead GPU the only way to fix it properly and permanently is to replace the GPU.

which we even described before in this very thread...
 
True, but for the record...


I feel really bad for anyone who has come to you for advice on or actually repairing broken computers... because if you think this is a good idea and you did this or something absolutely stupid like this to my computer, further damaging it beyond repair, I’d sue you for every penny you’re worth for using unethical, uncertified, and downright idiotic repair methods for fixing multi-thousand dollar computers.

Please, for the sake of those who are not as well versed in technology, like yourself, stop offering advice that you can’t back up with proven technical knowledge, experience, or just plain common sense. Stop spreading the “Gospel of Linux” when you can’t even do basic troubleshooting on it to help someone you convinced to upgrade a whole lab of school computers to Linux, which now has real-world repercussions because at the moment, none of those computers are working, thanks to you...

If you’re going to make completely outlandish claims and seemingly unsound advice, make sure you can back up those claims and advice with actual solid evidence, like @LightBulbFun CAN do...
 
If you can't replace the GPU yourself, at least pull the LoBo and reflow it in an oven. I know it's not ideal, but at least is safer than wrapping the computer in a blanket!
That's a lot of work doing essentially nothing other than getting a few more hours out of a dead chip. Replace the GPU chip, have it replaced, or sell/give it to someone who can.
 
That's a lot of work doing essentially nothing other than getting a few more hours out of a dead chip. Replace the GPU chip, have it replaced, or sell/give it to someone who can.

Not to mention damaging or destroying other components that don’t need to be and shouldn’t be overheated to temperatures capable melting solder...
 
Not to mention damaging or destroying other components that don’t need to be and shouldn’t be overheated to temperatures capable melting solder...
You do realize all those components do get heated to those temperatures in the factory during manufacturing, right? But at very precise intervals and such, that your convection oven isn't gonna pull off.
 
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You do realize all those components do get heated to those temperatures in the factory during manufacturing, right? But at very precise intervals and such, that your convection oven isn't gonna pull off.

Exactly, so heating them with a blanket with absolutely no control over temperatures and using a time of 4 hours that was randomly pulled out of that youtuber’s you know what isn’t exactly sound advice...
 
I'm at the point that the oldest machines I can run are late C2D machines. I still like my PPC machines but I just can't use then as daily drivers. I can still get work done on a C2D machine running El Capitan. Considering my late 09 Mac mini with 8GB of RAM and an SSD is still much faster and usable than my Dual 2.7 G5 with 8GB RAM and an SSD I see no point firing up the G5 especially with it's outdated browsers.....Last summers challenge is when the reality finally sunk in that my PPC days that lasted from 2008 to 2012 are over. In 2008 Leopard was still new and browsers were fully supported. Snow Leopard is when it all started to fall apart. I know its a sign of the times when Eric moves to Intel.
 
I'm just not seeing this "time's up for PPC" notion right now - I don't see much difference from what we've had for years, in fact Leopard Webkit, (and by extension), Roccat and TFF are now stronger and faster than ever. All down to expectations I guess.
 
I see theres a bit of confusion as to the whole GPU stuff

if you have a Machine with a failing GPU and you want to PROPERLY Fix it

the only way to do that is to properly replace the GPU entirely

however if you have a Laptop you just need to Limp along for the next few months or a year then you CAN get away with baking the board (its understandable that someone might not want to pay $100-200 to fix a laptop which it self is only worth $100-200)

however this does put undue stress on other components of the board and can cause other issues down the road, so that if you did then wanted to have the GPU replaced it will make proper repair people reluctant to take on your board due to any unknown issues that could crop up from the entire board being baked

basically if you do bake a board your more or less sealing its fate in regard to having it fixed properly. and that baking a board is NOT A FIX its just a "putting saw dust in the gearbox" sort of thing to limp an ailing machine along.

I hope this clears up this stuff for everyone :)
 
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I'm at the point that the oldest machines I can run are late C2D machines. I still like my PPC machines but I just can't use then as daily drivers. I can still get work done on a C2D machine running El Capitan. Considering my late 09 Mac mini with 8GB of RAM and an SSD is still much faster and usable than my Dual 2.7 G5 with 8GB RAM and an SSD I see no point firing up the G5 especially with it's outdated browsers.....Last summers challenge is when the reality finally sunk in that my PPC days that lasted from 2008 to 2012 are over. In 2008 Leopard was still new and browsers were fully supported. Snow Leopard is when it all started to fall apart. I know its a sign of the times when Eric moves to Intel.

Couldn’t agree with this post more... however, I got into PPC back in 2014 and stuck with it basically up until last year, when, like you said, the reality set in that PPCs were beginning to meet their end. It’s all well and good that the few 3rd party developers are keeping up with development, but I feel like over the past year or two, we’ve suffered several major blows. TFF went to feature parity instead of recoding the current releases to work on PPC. Slack discontinued it’s IRC services and no longer allows browsers to connect if they’re not running Mavericks or above (yes, this doesn’t affect the majority of you). Flash is dead, Java is dying, more websites rely heavily on HTML5 content, which doesn’t exactly play nice with PPC. YouTube has becoming more and more difficult to play from unless you use an external player. Modern iOS device support is essentially non-existent. DropBox and Skype support is dead. It’s probably only a matter of time before Spotify drops support for its ancient versions as well.

Like you said, once Erik throws in the towel, you know PPC has essentially met its end...
 
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I'm just not seeing this "time's up for PPC" notion right now - I don't see much difference from what we've had for years, in fact Leopard Webkit, (and by extension), Roccat and TFF are now stronger and faster than ever. All down to expectations I guess.
My bank will not allow me to login. If it allows me to enter credentials at all it then tells me that their systems are currently down. This happens both on a PowerPC Mac with TenFourFox and my MBP running the last version of Firefox that is 32-bit compatible.

If I go to an updated browser on my Thinkpad it works fine.

I have tried on the other two Macs with multiple user agents. My bank does not allow the login.

I can login on my Macs to my cell carrier. But I cannot pay the bill. The system uses some type of script that neither TenFourFox or the last 32-bit version of Firefox can process. I have to use my Thinkpad.

One of my credit card issuers is the same as my bank. I can login, but the system is unavailable. Works properly on my Thinkpad. All of the above works properly on the Mac Pro at work running whatever the latest version of Chrome is (and Firefox).

This is starting to become untenable for me. What does it say when you have five or more computers at home, laptops and desktops and only ONE laptop can login to these sites properly - after you have exhausted your entire repertoire of tricks and workarounds?

Fortunately, I can still browse news sites while eating at my desk with my G5 or on the couch with my PB. But Google redesigned their news site about a year ago and then they killed Newsstand, which was accessible via the web. I have to use a workaround.

Once I can no longer do that then this really becomes an issue for me. The fact is, that while I do use my Macs for a lot of things, 99% of what I do use them for is web browsing and online bill paying.

I'm not getting rid of them, I will just stop using them for most of my web browsing. They do have other uses. But for this reason "times up" is happening for me this year.

Considering I've had twelve years of unimpeded access though I'm satisfied.
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I'm at the point that the oldest machines I can run are late C2D machines. I still like my PPC machines but I just can't use then as daily drivers. I can still get work done on a C2D machine running El Capitan. Considering my late 09 Mac mini with 8GB of RAM and an SSD is still much faster and usable than my Dual 2.7 G5 with 8GB RAM and an SSD I see no point firing up the G5 especially with it's outdated browsers.....Last summers challenge is when the reality finally sunk in that my PPC days that lasted from 2008 to 2012 are over. In 2008 Leopard was still new and browsers were fully supported. Snow Leopard is when it all started to fall apart. I know its a sign of the times when Eric moves to Intel.
I have a PowerMac G3 that has 1GB ram, a SATA PCI card and a 2TB RAID that is used and will continue to be used until it dies as a server. Running Tiger 10.4.11 Server. ;)

It does this flawlessly and quietly and just keeps going. Because I have iTune 4.0 on it I can access my music library with any Mac (running the same version of iTunes) anywhere.

My G5s aren't going anywhere either. :D
 
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True, but for the record...

I've done that with a MacBook pro early 2008 that I got given with the broken gpu. did that after some searching online, and it worked. the next day it died again. used the same trick, worked for 2 days, then died. it's not a reliable fix, and the rest of the components are not designed to be heated up so much. so you damage the rest of the system in the process.
 
Couldn’t agree with this post more... however, I got into PPC back in 2014 and stuck with it basically up until last year, when, like you said, the reality set in that PPCs were beginning to meet their end. It’s all well and good that the few 3rd party developers are keeping up with development, but I feel like over the past year or two, we’ve suffered several major blows. TFF went to feature parity instead of recoding the current releases to work on PPC. Slack discontinued it’s IRC services and no longer allows browsers to connect if they’re not running Mavericks or above (yes, this doesn’t affect the majority of you). Flash is dead, Java is dying, more websites rely heavily on HTML5 content, which doesn’t exactly play nice with PPC. YouTube has becoming more and more difficult to play from unless you use an external player. Modern iOS device support is essentially non-existent. DropBox and Skype support is dead. It’s probably only a matter of time before Spotify drops support for its ancient versions as well.

Like you said, once Erik throws in the towel, you know PPC has essentially met its end...

I've found that web apps via TenFourFox are a good alternative to services without native PPC applications, especially if you use a FoxBox.

-

For the GPU solution, I wasn't directly suggesting it as a permanent fix, I was putting it there "to go on record" that there is a way to work around the failed GPU, if you are willing to keep an eye on the temperatures and fan speeds. It's all up to user discretion. It worked for many people, as evidenced by the replies and like ratio.

I feel really bad for anyone who has come to you for advice on or actually repairing broken computers... because if you think this is a good idea and you did this or something absolutely stupid like this to my computer, further damaging it beyond repair, I’d sue you for every penny you’re worth for using unethical, uncertified, and downright idiotic repair methods for fixing multi-thousand dollar computers.

Please, for the sake of those who are not as well versed in technology, like yourself, stop offering advice that you can’t back up with proven technical knowledge, experience, or just plain common sense. Stop spreading the “Gospel of Linux” when you can’t even do basic troubleshooting on it to help someone you convinced to upgrade a whole lab of school computers to Linux, which now has real-world repercussions because at the moment, none of those computers are working, thanks to you...

If you’re going to make completely outlandish claims and seemingly unsound advice, make sure you can back up those claims and advice with actual solid evidence, like @LightBulbFun CAN do...

For one, I wouldn't do anything like that to your computer because you're perfectly capable of it yourself. And unethical? Excuse me, are you PETA? We're talking machines here, mate. Not living beings. And uncertified? Well, are YOU certified? Is anyone here certified when someone suggests or performs a fix on 12+ year old hardware? If I was a "certified" repair shop, I wouldn't perform half-@$$ed home fixes like what was shown in the video, I would replace the GPU. - Multi-thousand dollar computers in 2008, but purchasable for a couple hundred dollars now, which would likely be equivalent pricing to actually getting them professionally repaired.

I don't doubt for a second that you would take immense personal satisfaction in mindlessly suing me for every penny I'm worth (over a $2,500 computer when new, at most), even though I haven't broken any of your bones, or those of your relatives.

And
you can’t even do basic troubleshooting on it to help someone you convinced to upgrade a whole lab of school computers to Linux, which now has real-world repercussions because at the moment, none of those computers are working, thanks to you...
is a downright lie. I damn well CAN troubleshoot, as I've proven on this site many times, I was simply waiting for that guy to reply, which he still has not done, even after LightBulbFun got involved. Doesn't seem like HE'S helping much, if the recipient of the help never tells you how your help worked out. The guy went about putting Linux on his computers by his own accord, which judging by his posts, sound like everything went dandy, but that the eMac was the only problem computer. I was trying to help him get through it, nice and slow so he could understand me clearly (maybe because English is not his first language, ever think of that?), and then he decides to run away without further notice, then I am deemed "not helping much" and "can't even do basic troubleshooting".

Stop distorting the truth and discounting everything I have to say. I wouldn't do that to you, or anyone else here for that matter, because unlike you, I don't hold immense dislike and disdain for single individuals on a forum who give inputs that I don't approve of.
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I've done that with a MacBook pro early 2008 that I got given with the broken gpu. did that after some searching online, and it worked. the next day it died again. used the same trick, worked for 2 days, then died. it's not a reliable fix, and the rest of the components are not designed to be heated up so much. so you damage the rest of the system in the process.

Did you do everything you could to make sure the GPU wouldn't overheat again, like thermal pads (if possible), controlling the fan speed, etc.?

I never claimed it was reliable, and I never defended it.
 
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