Inherited a Quick Silver 2002

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by EnderBeta, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #1
    I received a Quick Silver PowerMac G4 from my boss yesterday. He was no longer using it and in a wonderful display of generosity gave it to me to which I am extremely grateful.

    I have confirmed that it has:

    (1) 800MHz processor
    (3) 512MB 133MHz RAM modules
    (0) Airport cards
    (1) 40GB Drive
    (1) CD-RW most likely the base CD-RW
    (1) Internal 250MB Zip Drive
    (1) Original Keyboard
    (1) AGP ATI Radeon 7500 32MB
    (1) PCI ATI RV100 32MB

    The logic board is a 820-1342-B.

    I have confirmed the bong tone works when the PowerMac turns on and it boots up directly into the user account on a OS X 10.4.11 Tiger install. So the machine works!

    My thoughts are I would like to upgrade it. However I know absolutely nothing about this machine. Is it true I can install the 1.23GHz 133 dual G4 processors to this machine?

    Can I install a PCI SATA card to this machine and have it boot from the drive on the SATA port?

    What is the best graphics card I can put into the AGP slot? Any chance I could use a AGP NVidia 6800 Ultra 256MB graphics card in this machine?

    Photos below:

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  2. redheeler macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #2
    The highest stock processors made for the Quicksilver were dual 1 GHz, which also requires a different heatsink to upgrade a single-processor system. There are aftermarket upgrades made by Sonnet, GigaDesigns, NewerTech, etc. up to dual 1.8 or 2.0 GHz but those are rather rare/expensive.
    Yes.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 8, 2017 ---
    Not sure about that specific card, since there is a Mac version it may be possible to flash it. You'd have to do some research to find out.

    As for the best card, that would be a Radeon X800 or X850.
     
  3. EnderBeta thread starter macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #3
    So to confirm if I made the seller an option for this item I could swap out the daughter card that mine has in it for this one directly and it would work out of the box?

    Do I need a specific PCI SATA card or would any of them like this work?

    Would this card work with the computer?
     
  4. redheeler macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #4
    Yes that's one of the aftermarket CPU upgrades made for these Macs. Since those are 7455s you should be able to just swap it in and have it work, but some of the upgrades (G4 7447/7448) will require a firmware patch (which you can usually find online).
    Unfortunately no, most are not bootable in a G4. @eyoungren can probably help you out better than I can.
    No, it is made to fit the AGP Pro slot in the Power Mac G5.
     
  5. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #5
    Yes. You'd likely have to flash the firmware, but Sonnet makes that easy.

    Note, I paid $250 for my Sonnet Duet 1.8Ghz dual.
    You need a card that indicates it's for Mac. Otherwise, you'll have to flash a PC card and most of them, like the one you link, are PC.

    Sonnet makes good cards. Just search on eBay for Mac PCI SATA cards.

    I doubt it. When it comes to G5 cards you have to tape pins. This might work, but only if you tape the pins.

    A Radeon 9800 would work (I've used one) and some people swear by the 9650s.

    Do NOT buy a FireGL X3. The Quicksilver is the ONE model that card does not work in!
     
  6. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #6
    FWIW, the L3 cache on the dual 1ghz(and other high end QS processors) does not work when the card is installed in this computer.

    One of these was my first Quicksilver, and I used it for quite a while before I upgraded to a "real"(factory) dual 1ghz. I was amazed at how much of a difference it made in operation.

    As best as I can tell, Apple locked out the L3 cache on lower end QSs-specifically the 733 and the 800mhz QS2002.

    Most of the 3rd party 7455-based upgrades with L3 have firmware patches that will make the L3 work.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 8, 2017 ---
    My 9600 XT gave me good service for a while. I hacked mine to power an ACD display.

    BTW, I do have one FireGL that will work with a Quicksilver, but I don't know what's special about it that allows it to work.
     
  7. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Phoenix • 85037
    #7
    According to my research, there were a small amount that WOULD work. But there was never any rhyme or reason for it.

    I have one left, but at one point I had two. Neither one worked in my QS. Installed, the computer was nothing more than dead weight. No amount of pushing on the power button would cause the Mac to power on.

    So, you are fortunate to have one that DOES work!
     
  8. EnderBeta thread starter macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #8
    So that is a fair price for that processor set? I'd order it today if Well's Fargo wasn't playing games with holding my pay check. :( Hopefully it's still there in one week.

    I found this Sonnet PCI SATA card.

    Now I just have to find a better graphics card. If at all possible I would prefer to utilize nVidia. I found this one would it do the trick?
    --- Post Merged, Apr 8, 2017 ---
    Would the CPU upgrade I linked using the firmware they provide enable the L3? If not that is a bit of a disappointment. :(
     
  9. redheeler macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #9
    That's a GeForce 4ti, yes it would work and is the best card for Mac OS 9 if you plan to install that. However it doesn't support Core Image/Quartz Extreme in Mac OS X, and there are newer/better options available at the price.
     
  10. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #10
    Sorry, don't mean to be a downer but…

    1.3Ghz, even if it's a dual is a little less than I'd go for at $300. You can find single 1.6Ghz processors (by Sonnet and others) for around $200.

    That's just me though. Personally, I'd just watch eBay and wait. I waited a year and a half or more before my dual came up at that price.

    Lastly, that SATA card will NOT work. It's a PCI Express card. No Mac before the late 2005 PowerMac G5 can use PCI Express.

    I feel you want to quickly upgrade and I understand and appreciate that. I would too. These are great Macs. Unfortunately, the aftermarket parts situation is such that stuff like this while not rare, is more difficult to find. Let's take a shortcut.

    @LightBulbFun Can you please find OP what he needs on eBay?!
     
  11. EnderBeta thread starter macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #11
    They have 1.6ghz G4 processors? Do I need a special daughter card or will any work if I also get the accompanying cooling parts?
     
  12. eyoungren, Apr 8, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017

    eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

    Joined:
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    #12
    The original processor on my QS was a 1.6 single Sonnet.

    Newertech made a 2.0Ghz. Ultra hard to find (bunnspecial has one), ultra expensive. Mine is a dual 1.8 Sonnet.

    You don't need any special stuff. The cards come with the fans necessary to cool the processor(s).
    --- Post Merged, Apr 8, 2017 ---
    On thing to understand about the third party CPUs and eBay. There are a couple of sellers who understand that these are rare. As such they tend to overprice what they sell because they know that uninformed buyers will bear the price.

    This is why I say that finding one for a good price is a waiting game. You're trying to avoid those jerkwads that are jacking up the prices because they can.

    $300 for a 1.3Ghz single? Sorry, for me, not worth the price.
     
  13. LightBulbFun macrumors 6502a

    LightBulbFun

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #13
    @eyoungren as you command :) (only this time tho :p )

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-to-SATA...215925?hash=item237f470435:g:9SIAAOSw~AVYukFD one fully Mac compatible PCI SATA card

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Power...787357?hash=item21219bebdd:g:8K8AAOSwWxNYtxVF this would be a Nice boost in performance and give you Core image but it will not function fully in Mac OS 9, it should work in your machine as long as you tape pins 3 and 11

    for a CPU, there are no nicely priced 3rd party upgrades for sale currently, your best bet would be this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Power...782299?hash=item2cbc0198db:g:V0UAAOSwdGFYzFrJ the seller says he has the correct heatsink for it and you might be able to enable the L3 cache using sonnets Cache enable
     
  14. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Aug 31, 2011
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    Phoenix • 85037
    #14
    Thank you! :D

    OP, here's a GigaDesigns 1.2 dual for $199. One hundred dollars less than what you linked to earlier.

    MODS, not my auction!
     
  15. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #15
    The card does support QE, but not CI.

    QE does make a difference in OS X(which is why pretty much anything is better than a Rage 128). If you're running OS X versions earlier than 10.4, the lack of CI doesn't matter. It IS a big deal in 10.4 and 10.5.

    The 4Ti works well in Leopard and is a decently powerful card, but a lower end CI card like the 9600 will smoke it in OS X.

    All of that aside, I'll just say that I have owned quite a good half dozen GeForce 4Tis and I've NEVER paid more than $50 for one. I usually pay less. They're out there for the hunting. The linked one is the less common "short" version which I think was sold as a retail card. Most that you see have an extended "dead" PCB on the back to engage the support slots in the case-supposedly this was because the extra support was needed to ship these cards installed in the computer.
     
  16. EnderBeta thread starter macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #16
    Wow thank you very much. I really appreciate the help.
     
  17. QSDP-User macrumors regular

    QSDP-User

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2015
    Location:
    California, USA
    #17
    Congrats on the free acquisition!
    The website Low End Mac has a Quicksilver 2002 page if you're interested:
    http://lowendmac.com/2002/power-mac-g4-quicksilver-2002/

    I have both a Dual 1GHz in use and a 800MHz set aside.
    A great feature of these G4s is the HDD support over 128 GBs.
    eBay's been selling what looks to be new old stock IDE/PATA from sellers with good feedback.
    Prices are relatively cheap.
    Just suggesting an alternative to SATA PCI if you want to upgrade the HDD capacity.

    If using your Quicksilver for web surfing, this forum has posted threads for dealing with its era's
    HW/SW shortcomings to enable various degrees of tolerability or outright success.
    Think of it like the initial pain of stretching muscles but then it feels accomplished at the end.
    Afterwards, one can always go back to the sugar-&-fat-ease of one's more up-to-date daily driver ;)
    I'm guilty of such, reverting back to 10-year-old Intel Macs while others here use PowerPC Macs exclusively.

    This vintage beauty looks good, crunching with the games & creative software of its time.
    Macintosh Garden is a great website to peruse for older Mac software & games:
    http://macintoshgarden.org/
     
  18. EnderBeta thread starter macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    #18
    It has a number of graphic design programs loaded on it including Macromedia Flash MX, Adobe Illustrator 10 and it looks like possibly the first Photoshop CS.

    I'm honestly not to sure on what I will be using it for. I have a number of machines in my office already not counting it. I'll find something for it that is for sure. I wasn't going to let a golden opportunity slip by for want of a purpose for it. :D Beauty and historic value was enough.

    Thank you for the link. I will check it out and try out some vintage software on it.

    Edit:

    Oh my gosh Baulders gate for free on PowerPC!
     
  19. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Aug 31, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix • 85037
    #19
    LOL! The irony!

    The app to build Flash sites and Flash materials, yet it's Flash that pretty much put the PowerPC Mac in it's grave. :D

    I use and have always used my home Macs as graphic design stations. My QS was my main Mac for that for several years. I had six displays attached (now they are attached to my G5 Quad).

    Illy 10 is a great app. Used that for years at work before we went to CS4 and then CC.

    In case you wanted to know, Adobe CS4 is the highest that PowerPC Macs can run. CS1 for Photoshop is good though.

    Have fun with the Mac!
     
  20. CooperBox macrumors 6502a

    CooperBox

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    Location:
    France - between Ricard & Absinthe
    #20
    You did well with that gifted QS PowerMac G4.
    I picked up two at a thrift shop, having no idea even if they worked. Both did. Info showed they'd come from a local hospital, running OS 9, and fortunately someone had the sense to delete any sensitive data.
    Both were stock 800MHz with ATA 109 91700 00 video card. I've installed & updated Tiger (with all TFF recommended tweaks of course);) and they both run beautifully. Have had one on a local Craigslist -type ad site for the past two months, unfortunately no interest whatsoever. Pity as they're great machines!
     
  21. RhianB, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017

    RhianB macrumors 6502

    RhianB

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM USA
    #21
    Nice score :) I did not want to drop the $300 bucks for a sonnet CPU in my QS, so I opted for a Dual 1Ghz daughter card+heatsink for $34.00 purchased separately ($12DC & 22HS) on ebay. I agree that part of the fun is hunting down the good deals. FWIW, my QS came to me as a low spec'd single 733Mhz production date July 2001 (983rd that week). When I installed the "new" dual 1Ghz cpu, Tiger recognized L3 right away (Leopard does as well). These guys gave me the same warning & is certainly a thing, but I (luckily) have not experienced the disabled/unrecognized L3 glitch with this QS.

    L3-1.jpg

    Thanks for the SATA controller link Dez. I went ahead and picked one up. Let's see if it actually works :D For the record, I have had a helluva time finding a Sata controller that wasn't stupid expensive (like sonnet cpu territory) & met its claims & actually worked in my QS lol, so the linked $15 card is exciting news.

    Anyhow, have fun, man. QuickSilvers kick ass & are a blast & easy to work on. By Far my favorite PPC mac I own, use regularly if not almost daily & these guys (as has already been demonstrated) are beyond knowledgeable about PPC in general.
     
  22. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Aug 31, 2011
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    Phoenix • 85037
    #22
    They work.

    You won't get full SATA speeds of course but it will be considerably faster than the PATA interface. And your drive capacity options increase considerably.

    I had two 1TB SATA drives running in my QS.
     
  23. RhianB macrumors 6502

    RhianB

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    #23
    Coming from you guys, I was 99.99% sure that they did :D

    Anyhow, good to hear. Can't wait to get it.
     
  24. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Phoenix • 85037
    #24
    Just be a little patient when you start up the Mac. They do boot, but because PCI is so far down on the bus boot chain it can take a few seconds for the Mac to recognize a bootable drive.
     
  25. RhianB macrumors 6502

    RhianB

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    Sep 3, 2016
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    Albuquerque, NM USA
    #25
    I would like to get a OWC SSD to boot from. Pricey but they have the built in trash collection. I also am curious to see the difference in speed between PATA spinners & SATA SSD in my QS.
     

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