Um, obviously, the maxed-out old one will be more expensive than the cheapest new one. In other news, the sun is hot.
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Initial 16-inch MBP thoughts - I prefer the butterfly keyboard.
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Um, obviously, the maxed-out old one will be more expensive than the cheapest new one. In other news, the sun is hot.
Back in the day, these devices used to be called a "Personal Computer" so in many ways the choice is still a personal one based on individual needs. I have owned Apple laptops since the Powerbook G3 and I have to say, the 16" is by far the best one I have used yet on all fronts including the keyboard....at least for me, "Personally".
Hated the Butterfly keyboard. Made far too many typos and errors. Click, clacking away like a hen on speed, pecking at seeds... it was truly awful.
Love the new keyboard on the 16, best yet!
Love the new keyboard on the 16, best yet!
I prefer the punchiness to the butterfly keyboards too. just wish it had more travel
I completely agree with you. I have a 2018 map with a flawless keyword but if something will happen, I’ll switch to to butterfly again. The 2019 butterfly kB is in my opinion the best ever. The look, the feeling, the sound.. love it all.
And please don’t tell me the 2k19 butterfly keyboard is faulty..
And please don’t tell me the 2k19 butterfly keyboard is faulty..
Probably too early to tell anyhow..
Perhaps you can report back to us after a year or two?
I hated the butterfly keyboard and am glad its gone. There's a reason other manufacturer's never copied it. I hate it with a passion.
Again I didn't say the machine doesn't fully meet my expectations. I said it didn't give that warm glow of something new from Apple like most other purchases did - whilst I get used to them, things like keyboard have a "feel" downgrade - and it's not as immediately impressive as reviewers hyped it up to be.
That doesn't mean to say that it won't become my favourite MacBook Pro as I adapt to it over the following few months, i'm not sure why that is so difficult to understand. People who return things that have better long term benefits because they don't instantly like it are idiots.
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I’ll trade you my 2 month old 2019 top of the line 3600$ for yours if you want. 32 gig to 64 you won’t notice any difference really with what you said. I use mine plugged into a monitor so I never touch it.
deal?
No thanks, I've already got one! haha
Same. I had to send my 2016 15" MBP in for a bloated battery. They replaced the topcase and kb with the 2019 butterfly kb. While I was there to pick it up I tried out the kb on the 16" and wasn't impressed. I went back and forth between it and the surrounding 2019 Airs and Pros in the store just to make sure and yeah I came away preferring the 2019 butterfly kb. It's not a matter of being used to it either I hardly use the built-it kb. I've always been using an Apple Wireless KB with my laptops since 2010, it feels the exact same as my old plastic unibody Macbook keys which I absolutely love. I've no doubt I'd adjust to the 16" keys if I got one but yeah I have no problem with the butterfly keys. I like typing on them and I keep a 2.5" wide paint brush with me or in my laptop bag to dust off the keyboard every now and then. Keeps the crap from getting under them. Never had a problem with their reliability.
Personally, I never get the warm glow to last. I inevitably suffer from Post-Massive-Apple-Purchase-Melancholy. It's the inescapable feeling that, after dropping 3-4K on a new computer, your life is pretty much just the same as it was before. I know, I'm girding myself for the feeling, once my new 16" arrives...🥳😗😔
I learned that same lesson about myself about a decade ago and it's why I'm so concerned with getting a great price/value up front on most everything I buy.
I just know that my mindset, for some reason, really enjoys a product more over the long term if I know I got a great deal on it at the time of acquisition.
Call me crazy and too connected to pricing and "what's out there" all the time, but it seriously bothers me if I've overspent and paid too much, etc.
If I had to guess I think it's because so much of "value" and "pricing" isn't really tied to tangible numbers and gets so skewed by perception and marketing -- and it's all just a big game. The only way I can enjoy myself within that game is to score as many of my own points as I can (get great deals).
That’s not what I meant. I’m new here, and I don’t see why you guys have to be smart alecks. Look back, you said that the old version is cheaper AND has everything the guy wants. Makes sense, since the CPU and specs are the same, except for the RAM (like you said). But in order for the GPU to really compete with the 16”, you need the highest end Vega 20.
That version isn’t cheaper than the 16”. Meaning you’re paying more for less. Yeah, it’s cheaper than it used to be, but the implication was that it’s a great value compared to the 16”.
It’s not.
I mean, it's probably the lowest favorability percentage among all Apple keyboards. Apple doesn't have the luxury of hiding behind numbers.
I find it squidgy. If the modifications Apple made to 2018-19 models improve reliability, I’d have been happy with that along with the escape key and inverted T.
Speakers still sound like laptop speakers. Catalina is disappointing. Seems to take away more than it adds.
Will return mine and get a free keyboard replacement on my 2016 15 instead.
Speakers still sound like laptop speakers. Catalina is disappointing. Seems to take away more than it adds.
Will return mine and get a free keyboard replacement on my 2016 15 instead.
Its about the reliability, not the feel. I like typing on my 2018 MBA, the butterfly keyboard is nice to type on but its proven to be a terribly unreliable design. Reliability trumps feel every time on a laptop that costs as much as the 16" MBP.
I didn’t think that was possible to put the 2019 kb on a 2016? Do you have the document with part numbers? That would be great to see.
The butterfly keyboard has a nice, fast feel to it. The new/old 16" keyboard is a throwback to keys with more travel. I tested myself and even though it feels like I can type faster on the butterfly keyboard, my typing results were too close to call between the two.
The butterfly keyboards are inferior in regards to noise and reliability though, so in the end, despite how they "feel," the new scissor keyboard is clearly superior.
When I switched I had to adjust to the new scissor keyboard. The extra travel felt like mushiness. But now it feels perfectly normal and the other day when I went into the Apple store and typed on the Air, it felt really hard. And that's another issue, the short travel of the butterfly keys gave me wrist strain after a while, which I do not experience with the scissor keys.
So when one says the butterfly keyboard is better, then I ask "better in what way?" Feel? Reliability. Ergonomics. I can understand some liking the feel—that snappy, clicky, fast action does have appeal... until you get a stuck key and start screwing up all over the place. I used to carry a can of compressed air in my bag everywhere I went because I never knew when a key would act up.
The butterfly keyboards are inferior in regards to noise and reliability though, so in the end, despite how they "feel," the new scissor keyboard is clearly superior.
When I switched I had to adjust to the new scissor keyboard. The extra travel felt like mushiness. But now it feels perfectly normal and the other day when I went into the Apple store and typed on the Air, it felt really hard. And that's another issue, the short travel of the butterfly keys gave me wrist strain after a while, which I do not experience with the scissor keys.
So when one says the butterfly keyboard is better, then I ask "better in what way?" Feel? Reliability. Ergonomics. I can understand some liking the feel—that snappy, clicky, fast action does have appeal... until you get a stuck key and start screwing up all over the place. I used to carry a can of compressed air in my bag everywhere I went because I never knew when a key would act up.
He means his replacement was to a Gen 3, 2019 15" Butterfly keyboard, not to the 2019 16" Magic Keyboard.
Thanks. That’s exactly how I interpreted it. I didn’t think that was possible.
I could not stand the butterfly keyboard. Not even for a few seconds. This 16" with the magic keyboard is like butter though. I love it off the bat. Over all this 16" machine is freaking amazing. Of course I'm coming from a 2014 with a mostly dead battery.
Also, I'm not really sure where people getting data from to make many claims about the 2019 butterfly keyboard. There have been threads on this very page with plenty of people complaining about many of the same problems the 2016-18 versions had. It does seem to be a smaller number of complaints, but then between marginal improvements and possibly much lower sales due to this known issue, I think that's probably what we should expect.
That design was fundamentally flawed and Apple moved away from it ~6 months after releasing a marginal "fix". I don't know how much more we need to say.
Oh also, the audio *for a laptop* is amazing. I mean, on this one, I just have to think the OP has a stick up his rear. The audio has been universally praised as almost certainly the best sound system on a laptop in its class and most of the times by a wide margin. If the OP is hating on the audio, there is either something wrong with his ears or he's just grinding axes for fun.
And finally the esc key, dude. If you need it, you need it. I hit the thing probably a few times a minute working in R or other programs. No way I was going to go with a virtual key. That was a just a deal breaker for me. And honestly, the TB is still clunky as hell. I have to look down and fiddle with sliders just to adjust the brightness or sound. And I do still use those function keys somewhat. That's always a fun experience now. But the thing wow-ed my kids, so I guess that's what Apple is going for....
Also, I'm not really sure where people getting data from to make many claims about the 2019 butterfly keyboard. There have been threads on this very page with plenty of people complaining about many of the same problems the 2016-18 versions had. It does seem to be a smaller number of complaints, but then between marginal improvements and possibly much lower sales due to this known issue, I think that's probably what we should expect.
That design was fundamentally flawed and Apple moved away from it ~6 months after releasing a marginal "fix". I don't know how much more we need to say.
Oh also, the audio *for a laptop* is amazing. I mean, on this one, I just have to think the OP has a stick up his rear. The audio has been universally praised as almost certainly the best sound system on a laptop in its class and most of the times by a wide margin. If the OP is hating on the audio, there is either something wrong with his ears or he's just grinding axes for fun.
And finally the esc key, dude. If you need it, you need it. I hit the thing probably a few times a minute working in R or other programs. No way I was going to go with a virtual key. That was a just a deal breaker for me. And honestly, the TB is still clunky as hell. I have to look down and fiddle with sliders just to adjust the brightness or sound. And I do still use those function keys somewhat. That's always a fun experience now. But the thing wow-ed my kids, so I guess that's what Apple is going for....
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This'll always be an example of Apple over-engineering when they could've just used the reliable Magic Keyboard 2 from the start. Glad the obsession with thinness at Apple has finally lessened a bit.
I agree with this. I liked the feel of the butterfly keyboard and initially was concerned with the new scissor keyboard. But with two weeks of use I kind of like it too, and with the peace of mind of a more proven and robust mechanism (from the magic keyboard) I am happy with the change.
Maybe keyboards will always be polarizing. But it seems Apple has at least tried to find a compromise, that hopefully will prove to be more reliable.
Maybe keyboards will always be polarizing. But it seems Apple has at least tried to find a compromise, that hopefully will prove to be more reliable.
I agree with you 100%, and yes we're in the minority. I have a 2018 15" MBP and adore the butterfly keyboard. Yes, I know its a ticking time bomb (maybe) for a failure. My "E" key got crunchy last week due to debris, but came right out without an issue. I played with the 2019 MBP at BestBuy and it just felt...dated. The Butterfly keyboard feels like something new. I like the minimal travel of the keys and not having to depress it far. People say it's like typing on a rock, but I gently glide my fingers over the keys and strike it lightly. I adapted my typing style so I no longer pound the keys like an angry monkey.