Right, because it's not possible. He didn't get a 2019 gen 3 keyboard on his 2016 machine, regardless of what the 'genius' at Apple may have said.
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Initial 16-inch MBP thoughts - I prefer the butterfly keyboard.
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Right, because it's not possible. He didn't get a 2019 gen 3 keyboard on his 2016 machine, regardless of what the 'genius' at Apple may have said.
hey, I think you're right. I did some searching and from what I understand the topcase is all one piece and they don't/can't change out individual components on it. The part number on my service record is for a 2016 topcase. I think there was some miscommunication at the store. When I dropped it in I tried to ask if I'd get the "new" keyboard and the staff was like no not the one on the 16". I said no, I know that I meant as in the new butterfly one and they were like "yeah, yeah". They probably thought I meant new as-in not used, not new as-in latest revision. When I picked it up I just presumed I got the gen 3 one in there. At home I went straight back to my wireless kb. At the store I typed on their machines coz I didn't wanna open mine up. Now I'm actually typing this on my replaced kb and yeah it's not as good as what I remember typing on at the store. So looks like it is indeed the gen 1 version. Sorry I provided erroneous info based on presumptions.
that is just YOU, so N=1 not significant.. lol... you need the mass total of issues
I agree completely. The reliability issue is largely an echo chamber of older problems that Apple solved with the latest iteration of the BF KB. Unfortunately, the damage is done. And, there are people that won't accept the improvements to the KB. They just can't update their data base.
Also, unfortunately, 2015-2017 butterfly KBs are not replaced under the extended warranty with the 2019 version of the KB. They just get an older KB replacement. So, some folks have repeat problems and probably think they are using the latest KB, which they are not. There is an example on this thread of just such a situation. As a result, there are lots of opportunities for the consumer to be frustrated and confused. So, even if Apple has largely addressed the problems with the 2019 BF KB, there is a legacy issue that won't go away soon, and this splatters onto the current version of the KB.
Oh. My apologies then. I didn't think it would be difficult, since all the 2016 onwards MacBook Pros have had the exact same dimensions, keyboard deck included. Guess I was wrong.
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You put too much blame on users while much of the issue is self made by Apple from the beginning. We also don't know for sure 2019 version is problem proof. Based on the numbers of reports shown in the forum, I'd also suspect that 2019 is major improvement over all previous versions, but too much damage has been done, and already slight chance of failure is enough fo pend off would be buyers who previously had gone through nightmares of keyboard repair.
Don't underestimate the impact of previous failure. People had to spend their valuable time in addition to already costly price. And if Apple is trying so hard, why replace the previous with previous? It just shows Apple doesn't care about customer's legitimate concern.
It's Apple's Fault and I'm so glad it's past us.
I agree. Apple committed the original sin by creating a keyboard that was not properly tested. Even with subsequent improvements, the damage is done.
People have short memories. I'm betting this will be old news in a year. Once a problem is solved, people tend to move on. I have. I'm sure most others will. Some stubborn people won't. Can't help that.
Apple should have put that butterfly keyboard through intense focus group scrutiny. That keyboard feels almost like a unilateral pet project of Ive, or someone else with enough power there that it was hard to derail them. Once they got that thing into the product cycle, oh man, it's tough to switch gears when you're the size of Apple. They got around to it eventually, so let's hope they keep on the right track and bring back mag-safe and ditch that annoying Touch Bar also (I can hope).
A few people have commented that the 16" laptop looks dated. That the keyboard feels dated. I understand that, you're seeing something you've seen before. But if there's truly nothing better, then function over looks should win each time. We like how these look, but I think most of us would give up some of the looks to have all the functionality we want. We use these for working, not for looking at them.
In terms of keyboards? Why shouldn’t there be anything better? What is restricting the MacBook Pro to traditional scissor switches? There are magnetic levitation switches that feel nicer, low-profile mechanical switches that feel nicer, and rubber domes that feel nicer. Even if Apple had gone back to the drawing board with Butterfly instead of just putting little protective membranes over it, there could have been something interesting. Imagine a taller Butterfly switch made with stiffer materials. The extra space and momentum of the keys would grind any dirt that got inside into dust. The durability problem would have been solved, and they could have given it some new name (Dragonfly keyboard?) since it would be a truly redesigned switch.
They didn’t do any of this. They went with plain old scissors. They even used a positively familiar marketing term for it in “Magic Keyboard.” This wasn’t about making something good, it was about making something people were familiar with so that they’d stop screaming about Butterfly (which, to be clear, they absolutely had a right to be).
Tried the 16" keyboard out in the store today. I liked the feel of it. The keys have noticeably more travel than the old Butterfly keyboards, not as tactile but the added travel more than makes up for it.
I understand how some could like the Butterfly keyboards more, especially if that's all they've been using for months or years. It's an adjustment. But I am used to and prefer the traditional scissor keyboards with more key travel (Magic Keyboard 2, pre-2016 MBPs), so better feel and better reliability is a win-win to me.
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Apple should've gone with the traditional scissor keyboards from the very beginning. But I am happy that the company is (sometimes) willing to admit making a mistake and issue a correction.
I understand how some could like the Butterfly keyboards more, especially if that's all they've been using for months or years. It's an adjustment. But I am used to and prefer the traditional scissor keyboards with more key travel (Magic Keyboard 2, pre-2016 MBPs), so better feel and better reliability is a win-win to me.
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Apple should've gone with the traditional scissor keyboards from the very beginning. But I am happy that the company is (sometimes) willing to admit making a mistake and issue a correction.
Im sure apple tried with all kinds of depth and materials I mean 3 years of people being angry and a huge budget for apple you really don't think they tried a lot?
I still think apple will use the butterfly in some machines. They will continue to evolve it and over time with no issues from those machines they might reintroduce it in other lines or even in the separate magic keyboard as an option. I really don't think Apple will abandon the tech altogether.
What they did for the time being is set peoples minds at ease with the older style keyboard. It feels to me like going backwards in technology to make people happy while they keep the keyboards in the slimmer lines like the air. Im curious to see what Apple will do with it next few years.
Funny how some people still don’t get it.
It’s not about your preference, it’s the long term reliability of the keyboard that matters.
It’s not about your preference, it’s the long term reliability of the keyboard that matters.
Honestly? No, I don’t think they did. I think Apple’s goal with the 16” release was to do exactly what you described bellow:
In other words, I think they tried absolutely nothing, since no new or improved switch would make people feel like the issues were fixed as much as scissor would. If the goal is pacification, and the easiest way to pacify is to use something that requires zero time, effort, or money, why would any sane company try to spend those resources on something new. I do hope you’re right about them coming back to Butterfly and refining it further, though.
This is what frustrates me. That they just took the easiest route out instead of making something special, which is why we all fell in love with Apple. It’s sad, because its becoming obvious to me that this is no longer what people want from Apple. If something works, they just want more and more of it. Mediocrity and stagnation defined…
Which, now I've had a chance to play with a 16" is pretty much what it feels like to my fingers? Same snappy feedback but you can also feel that the keys are actually moving properly. I like the typing experience quite a lot.
I definitely used to like the 'new shiny toy' high but not so much since It's been me paying rather than my parents treating! My 2015 MacBook Pro was the first computer I properly bought for myself, and at the time though it was quite expensive at £1,599, for what you got that was fantastic value and absolutely worth it over the competition!
And this is exactly what I didn't want to and didn't expect to have to do!
Apple just offered to replace my failing 2016 MBP keyboard, so I get a new top case to replace my chipped one, new battery to replace my swollen one, and working keys. I felt guilty about returning my MBP 16 afterwards, but Catalina is not ready for me yet, and I think I prefer the non-squidgy keyboard. Just wish I had the escape key and inverted T.
I can respect the fact that a lot of people (most people, it seems) like the feeling of the 16” Magic Keyboard more than the Butterfly Keyboard. It’s okay. But typically when people prefer different things to me, there’s a mutual acknowledgment of the difference. That doesn’t seem to be the case with these boards. That is to say, I simply don’t understand how anyone can say these feel like Butterfly. They’re nothing like Butterfly. Those had a very distinct tactile click (so distinct it was audible), and these are just mush.
Maybe it’s because I’ve used a fair amount of keyboards of a various pool of switches and designs, but I have to do this on every new board I use. People say “The Scissor Switch™“ as if it’s a singular, omnipresent switch. It’s not. Every scissor board on every laptop feels noticeably different. If I go from a 16” to an old school ThinkPad (some of the best laptop boards ever), there will be an adjustment period.