Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

InkWell and Trackpads

Originally posted by jettavrsix
If Apple were developing a flatscreen technology that would allow me to draw and write directly on the screen (similar to the Cintiq but crisper and integrated with the OS) then I'd be excited.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that this should not be too difficult. For example, there have long been many "pens" for CRT displays ... it has an optical sensor that syncs up with the sweep of of the electron gun across the CRT, so that the computer knows where the user is pointing the pen.

Now, obviously, this wouldn't directly transfer to LCD displays, but there should be some analogous way for a pen to detect which LCD pixels it's being held over. Perhaps an identifying signal overlaying the line signal to each of the three color LCD elements that comprise a pixel? If such a signal had a frequency of more than 100 Hz, there would be no noticeable (to the human eye) flicker and the pen could certainly sample at 1kHz or more (the higher the frequency, the finer the time resolution and, hence, the spatial resolution.

Then, perhaps all you'd need to retrofit older displays is a more wear & tear resistant polymer coating (that doesn't degrade the clarity of the display).

Of course, since it hasn't been done yet, as far as I'm aware, there's probably a technical hitch I haven't thought of ...
 
Andreessen hints at Apple PDA?

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0206/14.browser.php

He says in reference to browsers on portable devices...

..."There are going to have to be new metaphors invented, new clients, new user interface models, but they've got to be suited to the device.

This is what (Apple Computer Inc. chief executive officer) Steve Jobs understands that a lot of people have trouble with: Form factor really counts. What shape it is, how far away from it you are when you use it, how big the screen is, whether it has a keyboard, whether it uses a stylus, those things determine how it gets used more than anything else, and you can't force the wrong metaphor on people. "
 
The trackpad works with body capacitance, I believe, so it would be a simple thing to devise a stylus whose tip is connected to a metallic band partway along the stylus' shaft...

But, yeah: why use it when there's a keyboard immediately adjacent?

A Cintiq-like next-generation iMac is one possibility, unless...

Newton II, perhaps?
 
How trackpads work

Trackpads work based on your finger's ability to disrupt the electrical field on their surface. This field is designed to be sensitive to items with the electroconductivity of a human finger, which is essentially water. Other similar objects work fine. Try using a (closed) soy sauce or ketchup packet and watch the pointer move as you drag the packet over the trackpad.
 
I don't think we're going to see the trackpad idea brought to the public from Apple but I'm sure some bored teenager in college will have such a hack at the next Machack. I do have to admit though someone might find it useful so it may not qualify. ;)

At any rate lets dream a little.

Take a new wireless card that does 802.11b and bluetooth, throw it into a powerbook or ibook. Now take a fairly lightweight, thin pressure sensitive pad that accepts input from a stylus with it's own cpu and subsystem with bluetooth and maybe even a hitachi harddrive if there's room and enough power. Now make that pad the same size as the powerbook or ibook case. Last design it in such a way that it mounts to the bottom of the ibook or powerbook(yeah we're talking two different sizes or models now) much the same way some of the PC laptops have a sort of mobile docking system that contains the cdrom, etc. Actually bluetooth isn't really needed as a 6 ft firewire cable might suffice when communication is needed. Heck even the harddrive may not be needed if it's transmitting constantly to the laptop.

Now consider the markets for this. Schools now have an electronic pad that connects to ibooks for artwork and even practicing handwriting with the proper software.

Think of the non-student side as well as businesses. Presentations can be given and projected with any writing on the presentation acting as an overlay. There's always the quick sketch that could be useful. Portable handwriting recognition...probably developed by a 3rd party.

Consider the uses and markets. This would fit in with the Mac as a digital hub and provide something that I'm not aware of anyone doing yet. Of course, maybe it's not possible yet. I'll readily admit I don't know how advanced pressure sensitive tablets can be made that are capable enough for this yet durable, lightweight, and not too expensive.

This could also open up new markets for 3rd parties to provide various sizes of pads for presentation stations. Maybe some that are more heavy duty for those rougher work environments?

Ok dreams over...time to wake up. ;) There's at least a hundred reasons why this cannot happen I'm sure and quite frankly this is probably some design that got Steved long ago but hey? It's something that sounds alot more feasible that being able to write on the tiny trackpad on a laptop and letting inkwell try to figure the three letter words that were written on it.

Parent asks young daughter: Why is your ibook trackpad red and blue?

daughter says: I was writing a note to my friend in class and my blue pen ran out of ink so I used a red one.
 
Originally posted by maiku
I think you missed the point. Re-read the MacOSRumors Post.

"think about the way the trackpad works on PowerBooks and iBooks. Imagine if you could add an inexpensive stylus pen, and enter text much the same way it is done on the trackpad-like area of a Palm handheld or similar device."

...

Please read before you put stuff on your front page, because MacOSRumors
didn't imply this technology would be for Powerbooks and iBooks,
it seems to imply it will be for an inexpensive pen and tablet that Apple may introduce at MWNY. This would make sense, Inkwell must be for something besides Wacom owners....

...
Click to expand...


Umm, before you attack the posts of others, I suggest that you ensure that your own stands the test...

Original quote from MOSR:

"think about the way the trackpad works on PowerBooks and iBooks. Imagine if you could add an inexpensive stylus pen, and enter text much the same way it is done on the trackpad-like area of a Palm handheld or similar device."

The quotation in itself can be regarded as somewhat ambiguous in that the second sentence does not stand entirely on its own (it requires a degree of interpretation [perhaps intended py the writer] that will result in different people reaching different conclusions). However, the intention of the writer seems quite clear, after a little light analysis.

Sentence 1: The subject of the paragraph is immediately drawn to trackpads. Not just any trackpads, but specifically to the trackpads of PowerBooks and iBooks.

Sentence 2: The text in the first clause (ie prior to the comma) states: "Imagine if you could add an inexpensive stylus pen". What are we adding it to? The writer did not say. However, since the first sentence explicitely relates to PowerBooks and iBooks, it seems logical that this sentence also refers to the same subject. Assuming the devils advocate, you may claim that it is the ambiguity of MOSRs initial rumour that clouds the issue. maiku, if this is the line that you are taking: a hint: never criticise another based on an ambiguious argument (ie one that you do not fully understand yourself).

In the off chance that the article was poorly (or ironically 'really well' written), maybe the writer was refering to 'something else.' This is easily tested.

We are only adding "an inexpensive stylus": not a trackpad. If you believe that we are adding a trackpad, the article certainly does not say this, and so you are concluding this yourself through a process of fabrication: maiku, fabrication is not a reason to criticise others, which your post clearly does.

A final possibility: maybe Apple is releasing a 'new product' that has a trackpad in it. As far as I am aware, the information on this issue is simply based on speculation. I am a speculative rumormonger like the rest of us at the best of times, but maiku, if you are basing your criticisms of others based on speculation alone, then you really should reconsider your position. Of course, if you do know something that we don't, why don't you tell us.
 
theaz: What are you? a lawyer? sheesh!

Mental note...don't argue with theaz. ;)
 
Look at the slot-loading drive, only the PowerBook has it. Granted the image has been flipped horizontal but you can still see the graphite keyboard and latch-release button. Definately a TiBook!
 
Again, the trackpad is NOT the deal here guys!

Okay, let me say this once (again):

Inkwell (Newton HWR 2.0) was designed for WRITING on a SCREEN!!! Imagine with me if you will (as obviously none of you have ever had any exposure to the elegance of this input method) - writing on the screen with a stylus - either to draw or write - print or cursive. "Gee AudiA4, that would almost be as natural as writing on a notepad!" No kidding.

Proposing that Inkwell be implemented for use on a painted out trackpad is...well, both ludicrous and low tech. Suggesting (Cappy) that Apple attach a full-size pad to a notebook is even more ludicrous (why not USE THE SCREEN)! Wacom tablets (and their variants) are just holdover technology fromt the time when writing on a full-color LCD screen was not possible (and I'm aware that there are still some advantages to separate tablets - but not for writing).

C'mon guys! The ONLY reason Apple makes the Wacom tablet disclaimer is just a temporary "excuse" until they release a new digital device. I would offer that this would either be a PDA or a tablet (a "notebook" computer without the keyboard).
 
Re: Again, the trackpad is NOT the deal here guys!

Originally posted by AudiA4
C'mon guys! The ONLY reason Apple makes the Wacom tablet disclaimer is just a temporary "excuse" until they release a new digital device. I would offer that this would either be a PDA or a tablet (a "notebook" computer without the keyboard).
Click to expand...

Just remember that it's not Apple's style these days to jump into a market dominated by other companies unless they feel their products are not doing things right. They've pretty strongly stated that it might be suicide to enter the pda race. My bets would be on something more like a tablet style device with some pda capabilities where they could probably have a higher price and not be perceived to be competing with Palm, PocketPC, and now even Sharp.

Maybe we would see the beginning of a whole new Apple-MS war as MS will be releasing their WinXP code for this technology later this year. Both would likely hit the ground running. Whatever Apple markets, I would just hope that it connects to both Macs and Windows systems.

I also wouldn't be so quick to rule out other products that use seperate pads even for writing. There are cost issues that come into play depending on the product and market. I've felt all along that adding these features might be more for 3rd party developers to create products to get Macs into niche markets than for Apple to use in their own products but I would love to be proven wrong.

Ain't rumors fun? :)
 
Reality Check

Yes, OK - the idea of having an 'only' screen writable table is cool. But reality check - how dirty does your mouse pad get just from having your hand rest on it? And you're going to be having your hand resting on your screen? My iBook screen gets unwatchable just be me talking and breathing in front of it! If you aren't going to rest your hand on the screen then you are just going to become the posterboy for RSI. AND your hand will always be in the way because it will always be blocking the view of some portion of the screen.

Star Trek iPads might look cool on TV but the majority of people can type faster than they can legibly (and consistently) write, and an input device separate from the display will be more useful to the majority over one that is just a secondary function of the display itself.

Unless you are 'typing challenged' the only time handwriting input would be more advantagous is when there isn't room for a full keyboard, analog positional input is required, or you just want to 'gee whiz' impress your less geeky friends.

Inkwell is only useful to me as a Graffiti replace in a handheld - and heck I can already write 50 words a minute in that so even then it might not be an 'as functional' replacement.
 
Re: Reality Check

Originally posted by BobVB
Star Trek iPads might look cool on TV but the majority of people can type faster than they can legibly (and consistently) write, and an input device separate from the display will be more useful to the majority over one that is just a secondary function of the display itself.

Unless you are 'typing challenged' the only time handwriting input would be more advantagous is when there isn't room for a full keyboard, analog positional input is required, or you just want to 'gee whiz' impress your less geeky friends.

Inkwell is only useful to me as a Graffiti replace in a handheld - and heck I can already write 50 words a minute in that so even then it might not be an 'as functional' replacement.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more that typing on a keyboard is faster than handwriting. That's why I think it's so stupid that they would implement Inkwell on the trackpad (as this would imply there was a keyboard present). I merely suggested that Inkwell was likely reintroduced for a future KEYBOARD-LESS device. Be it a PDA or Tablet. If you have to provide ANOTHER surface for input, then you've defeated the purpose of dropping the keyboard. It's all about size and efficiency within a given pricepoint.

As far as smudges on the screen, well, my Newton worked just fine and though I don't overly respect Microsoft, there has to be some validity to the whole new Tablet PC that they are pushing. Touch-sensitive screens are made for this type of use (and maintenance).

Fifty words a minute with Graffiti? Yeah, right.
 
Toshiba has a new laptop that uses a new touchpad with an lcd underneath. You can write on the touchpad with a stylus, at can change to a number pad, or whatever the developers want, pretty neat.
 
Here is an idea I haven't seen addressed yet in this thread.

Anyone remember how the first 'draw on the screen' light pens worked? You didn't need a touch sensitive screen retrofitted to a CRT or LCD, it worked by being able to tell the position of the pen point by the scan rate of the raster.

Simply make one of those sensors a bluetooth pen device.

Of course it would probably have to sample many many times per screen refresh to be able to position a hundred thousand times per second or more. Then deal with latency between the pen and the receiver. Probably not practical.
 
Originally posted by Wry Cooter
Here is an idea I haven't seen addressed yet in this thread.
I guess you didn't see the following, at the top of this page ...


... It seems to me that this should not be too difficult. For example, there have long been many "pens" for CRT displays ... it has an optical sensor that syncs up with the sweep of of the electron gun across the CRT, so that the computer knows where the user is pointing the pen.
Click to expand...

The problem is that LCDs don't rasterize displays like CRTs. My thought, however, was that the brightness of the pixels could be varied in a systematic way, that would be undetectable to the human eye, so that each pixel essentially blinks its number for an optical sensor to pick up.

The sampling rate would not have to be anywhere near tens of thousands of times per second. CRTs usually rasterize at less than 100 times per second (80-100 Hz); 75 Hz or below and people can start to notice flickering. Light pens for CRTs sample on the same order of magnitude.

Latency wouldn't be a problem for LCDs. For CRTs, yoo have to tell, pretty closely, when each sweep of the electron gun begins to calculate the time until the pen's optics sense it ... the time transforms into a position on the screen.

An LCD, such as I describe above, would not depend on such timing accuracy, but would read each pixel's position directly from the pixel.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Re: happiness is a warm stylus

Originally posted by clevergirl
I think the trackpad responds bodyheat. Then all you'd need is a special stylus...one with a warm tip.
Click to expand...
I think it responds to your body's capacitance. That's why warm inatimate objects don't work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back