Inside Apple's New MacBook Pro

[Wheelie4]

Life is long. You'll probably be equally glad when you switch back to Windows

LOL I'm 47. Life's not that long anymore. I agree Microsoft did a good job with Win 7 to make up for the travisty Vista was. But for me to go back to windows either Apples OS must go down hill bad or Microsoft must make a drastic change in its design under the hood.

 

[OnAirNow]

Newbie Query

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while now but this is my first post.

I know that these updates aren't to everyones taste but I had decided to get my first Macbook as soon as the new models were released. Given the 5 year old, dog slow, Windows laptop I'm using now, I'm certain I won't be disappointed with the new machine.

With that in mind, it'd be great if I could get some advice from the more experienced Mac users here...

The 15" model is the perfect size for me so that's the easy decision made! As far as processor speed is concerned I'm leaning towards the i5 2.4ghz model - for the additional costs involved in upping the processor speed I wonder if anyone thinks I'd notice much difference when running Photoshop or Pro Tools LE / Logic Express? If the likely difference is negligible I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. The HD will be 500gb but do you think the 7200rpm option is worthwhile for my needs? I've heard it runs loud and hot, but I've no first hand experience of them.

Thanks.

 

[Hal Itosis]

BD or DVD, for example:

Many home theatre audio amplifiers feature high quality decoders and DACs, so systems are set up so that all of the signal sources send the raw digital bitstreams over HDMI to the control amplifier, which does the decoding into the desired output (for example, 7.1).

Okay (i haven't done much with HDMI yet, even though my widescreen has 3 HDMI inputs). But i would guess (guess mind you) that any "multi-channel" audio passing through that connector is actually multiplexed into a single digital datastream. I.e., a Mac (or whatever) is just sending a bunch of bits on one (or maybe two) wires... and it's up to the receiving device to dissect and distribute that information accordingly.

I agree, it would be nice if Apple's spec sheet contained more nitty-gritty... but maybe it's just part of the standard, so they don't feel obliged to spell it out. [it does seem unlikely (to me anyway) that Apple would be telling users "just get an HDMI adapter" if they weren't supporting the whole ball of wax.]

 

[AidenShaw]

Okay

You're welcome.

But i would guess (guess mind you) that any "multi-channel" audio passing through that connector is actually multiplexed into a single digital datastream. I.e., a Mac (or whatever) is just sending a bunch of bits on one (or maybe two) wires... and it's up to the receiving device to dissect and distribute that information accordingly.

More to the point, the Apple should be passing the raw uncompressed bitstream for audio down the HDMI. It should also be passing the decoded but not scaled video bits (higher end video receivers feature very high quality upscaling - my Sony ES has "Faroudja DCDi Cinema" upscalers, it also has 9 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs (it can drive two different HDTVs from two different sources at the same time)).

We've come a long way from the "add an S-video port and a headphone jack and call it home theatre" era.

I agree, it would be nice if Apple's spec sheet contained more nitty-gritty...

+1

 

[Hal Itosis]

More to the point, the Apple should be passing the raw uncompressed bitstream for audio down the HDMI. It should also be passing the decoded but not scaled video bits

And for all we know, that's exactly what they're doing. [spec sheets aren't always intended to be full-blown tutorials... you know how that "it just works" bit goes.]

(higher end video receivers feature very high quality upscaling - my Sony ES has "Faroudja DCDi Cinema" upscalers, it also has 9 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs (it can drive two different HDTVs from two different sources at the same time)).

Sounds killer.

We've come a long way from the "add an S-video port and a headphone jack and call it home theatre" era.

Now that i do recall having done! [Monster cables, natch.]

 

[DMann]

My question is what signals does the Apple mini display port carry, not what the cable standard supports.

But you're so eager to toss out personal insults that you didn't understand that.

Does it surprise you, that Apple will be deploying this 'standard,' DP 1.2, for their MDPs across their entire line-up?

Or are you simply too eager to find potential fault with Apple's products in general?

That was the situation when Apple put the USB ports on the original Imac - few peripherals around to use it.

Not if Apple wishes to promote Light Peak instead.

[it does seem unlikely (to me anyway) that Apple would be telling users "just get an HDMI adapter" if they weren't supporting the whole ball of wax.]

Agreed, I would also refrain from second guessing any deviation from a standard such as DP 1.2.

You're welcome.

Quite an assumption.

 

[petrelli18]

hey guys i just have a quick question.

i just about ordered my new 13" MBP from Apple 9i am just getting the stock, and going to aftermarket upgrade the HDD and ram) and i am just wondering: in your opinion or experience, is AppleCare or a BestBuy service plan a better option.

since i am just ordering a stock computer, i could always just get it from bestbuy. Really the only difference now is which warranty program is better.

your advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance!

 

[DMann]

hey guys i just have a quick question.

i just about ordered my new 13" MBP from Apple 9i am just getting the stock, and going to aftermarket upgrade the HDD and ram) and i am just wondering: in your opinion or experience, is AppleCare or a BestBuy service plan a better option.

since i am just ordering a stock computer, i could always just get it from bestbuy. Really the only difference now is which warranty program is better.

your advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance!

I'd go with Apple Care.

They would more likely be willing to replace a problematic unit with a new one, than other services would be willing to do.

Also, Apple specialists at the stores are likely to be more skillful in solving any problems.

 

[ledzeppelin]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while now but this is my first post.

I know that these updates aren't to everyones taste but I had decided to get my first Macbook as soon as the new models were released. Given the 5 year old, dog slow, Windows laptop I'm using now, I'm certain I won't be disappointed with the new machine.

...oh yes, I can relate to an old windows and needing to get a new computer, I am posting from an old Dell P III
1 GHz year 2000...

With that in mind, it'd be great if I could get some advice from the more experienced Mac users here...

...I am not more experienced but I will give what I have read and know from being involved with computers for years...

The 15" model is the perfect size for me so that's the easy decision made! As far as processor speed is concerned I'm leaning towards the i5 2.4ghz model - for the additional costs involved in upping the processor speed I wonder if anyone thinks I'd notice much difference when running Photoshop or Pro Tools LE / Logic Express? If the likely difference is negligible I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. The HD will be 500gb but do you think the 7200rpm option is worthwhile for my needs? I've heard it runs loud and hot, but I've no first hand experience of them.

Thanks.

...I think you should just get the lower speed CPU and 5400 HD and use money saved for other goodies, that is what I would do...
Ledzeppelin

 

[Hal Itosis]

Laptop magazine (6 pages)

[note that the Vaio used in comparisons on pages 2 and 4 there has a solid-state drive (while their MBP does not).]

 

[lha72]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while now but this is my first post.

I know that these updates aren't to everyones taste but I had decided to get my first Macbook as soon as the new models were released. Given the 5 year old, dog slow, Windows laptop I'm using now, I'm certain I won't be disappointed with the new machine.

With that in mind, it'd be great if I could get some advice from the more experienced Mac users here...

The 15" model is the perfect size for me so that's the easy decision made! As far as processor speed is concerned I'm leaning towards the i5 2.4ghz model - for the additional costs involved in upping the processor speed I wonder if anyone thinks I'd notice much difference when running Photoshop or Pro Tools LE / Logic Express? If the likely difference is negligible I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. The HD will be 500gb but do you think the 7200rpm option is worthwhile for my needs? I've heard it runs loud and hot, but I've no first hand experience of them.

Thanks.

A lot of that depends on how long you keep your laptops - sounds like you keep them longer than the "gotta have the newest and greatest" crowd. If that's the case, getting the highest performance processor might be the best option. The processor isn't something you can replace yourself.

As for hard drives, you will notice a difference in performance between the 7200 and 5400 rpm drives. Contrary to popular legend, the difference in power requirements between the 7200 and 5400 models is negligible, and there is little difference in sound and heat output between the two. If you are doing photo work your best option is the higher speed drive. The same holds true for the higher performance processor.

 

[john123]

But no - you were the one who said "full AV". My HDMI links carry uncompressed 96KHz/24 bit 8 channel sound, and/or two different flavors of lossless compressed 8 channel sound.

If you say "full AV", you need to able to provide links to back that up. I looked on the Apple website, and as usual Apple is very vague about the specs of their products.

You erred in making an assumption by what I meant. "Full AV" is not a technical term. You made an (incorrect) assumption about my meaning, and then continue to attack me because you erred in interpretation. That's on you. I was clear about my meaning, intent, and context from the very beginning.

 

[AidenShaw]

You erred in making an assumption by what I meant. "Full AV" is not a technical term. You made an (incorrect) assumption about my meaning, and then continue to attack me because you erred in interpretation. That's on you. I was clear about my meaning, intent, and context from the very beginning.

Is it not reasonable to assume that "full AV" meant that it supports means HDMI 1.3a support - the current HDMI spec? How was I to know that "full" didn't mean "full" as you used it?

And it's HDMI 1.3a that is the relevant standard since we're talking about HDMI connections. The Displayport 1.2 standard is not relevant, because unless the DP->HDMI adapter supports HDMI 1.3a it's not as useful.

 

[Hal Itosis]

Is it not reasonable to assume that "full AV" meant that it supports means HDMI 1.3a support - the current HDMI spec? How was I to know that "full" didn't mean "full" as you used it?

And it's HDMI 1.3a that is the relevant standard since we're talking about HDMI connections. The Displayport 1.2 standard is not relevant, because unless the DP->HDMI adapter supports HDMI 1.3a it's not as useful.

But you haven't presented any case showing why it would not work. Neither the Mac nor the adapter need to "process" these signals... rather, merely pass them along down the line (on the proper wires). From what i can ascertain (here), the only difference in the 1.3a spec compared to earlier versions —as far as dumb devices go —is bandwidth. Providing all the new whiz-bang features is up to the receiving device which decodes the data. The Mac and the adapter need only meet the required bandwidth, to shuttle the bits without degrading the signal. They need not "support" (or even know about) any of the added information in that signal.


But, we did learn at least something about what a great home theater system you own... so it wasn't all for nothing.

 

[DMann]

Is it not reasonable to assume that "full AV" meant that it supports means HDMI 1.3a support - the current HDMI spec? How was I to know that "full" didn't mean "full" as you used it?

Why the hell would "full AV" need to support HDMI at all?

Are you suggesting that the raw signals carried by DP 1.2 are somehow neither compatible nor comparable with the same, uncompressed signals carried by HDMI 1.3a?

Just how much "fuller" would these uncompressed audio and video signals need to be, to be considered "full AV?"

And it's HDMI 1.3a that is the relevant standard since we're talking about HDMI connections. The Displayport 1.2 standard is not relevant, because unless the DP->HDMI adapter supports HDMI 1.3a it's not as useful.

Your remarks are irrelevant, since DisplayPort doesn't have to support anything at all.

It needs only to relay the uncompressed signals to either an HDMI adapter, or directly to the components which will actually be processing the signals.

But you haven't presented any case showing why it would not work. Neither the Mac nor the adapter need to "process" these signals... rather, merely pass them along down the line (on the proper wires). From what i can ascertain (here), the only difference in the 1.3a spec compared to earlier versions —as far as dumb devices go —is bandwidth. Providing all the new whiz-bang features is up to the receiving device which decodes the data. The Mac and the adapter need only meet the required bandwidth, to shuttle the bits without degrading the signal. They need not "support" (or even know about) any of the added information in that signal.

Precisely.

But, we did learn at least something about what a great home theater system you own... so it wasn't all for nothing.

LOL

 

[chris7777]

You do know that you can buy an anti-glare screen film...makes it exactly the same as the matte version. And they actually do work...I'm using one now.

Which one, I am thinking about getting one when I get my 13" in the near future.

 

[BrianMR]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for a while now but this is my first post.

I know that these updates aren't to everyones taste but I had decided to get my first Macbook as soon as the new models were released. Given the 5 year old, dog slow, Windows laptop I'm using now, I'm certain I won't be disappointed with the new machine.

With that in mind, it'd be great if I could get some advice from the more experienced Mac users here...

The 15" model is the perfect size for me so that's the easy decision made! As far as processor speed is concerned I'm leaning towards the i5 2.4ghz model - for the additional costs involved in upping the processor speed I wonder if anyone thinks I'd notice much difference when running Photoshop or Pro Tools LE / Logic Express? If the likely difference is negligible I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. The HD will be 500gb but do you think the 7200rpm option is worthwhile for my needs? I've heard it runs loud and hot, but I've no first hand experience of them.

Thanks.

I think Photoshop is exactly the kind of activity that's likely to benefit the most from the i7 model. Reports range from 4-12% in general performance improvement in the models. How much that improvement means to you, and what you are willing to pay for it, is up to you. Sorry if it sounds flippant, I don't mean it to be... but its subjective and not an automatic upgrade that everyone finds worth the cost.

 

[Hal Itosis]

. . . DP 1.2 . . .
. . . HDMI 1.3a . . .

Dang, i didn't even realize there's a whole other thread devoted to this very topic... and <this post> contains two pretty interesting links.


EDIT:
Also, be sure to catch the matticus008 -- mosx -- matticus008 exchange. [The effort being exerted around here to misinform people (and/or misrepresent facts) by the anti-Apple troll consortium is truly astounding.]

 

[AidenShaw]

Dang, i didn't even realize there's a whole other thread devoted to this very topic... and <this post> contains two pretty interesting links.

A reply to the gizmodo link really hits to the heart of the matter:

I think HDMI is far too prevalent now for Display Port to make much of a difference. You have to look at the bigger picture beyond PC hardware/monitors.

Until there are DisplayPort TVs and AV receivers available everywhere I just don't see how the majority of people will care.

The Home Theatre arena is an HDMI arena. Refusing to support HDMI standards is just as stupid (and just as annoying to customers) as refusing to support Blu-ray.

Even Sony was smarter than this - instead of backing the better Beta standard through a classic death spiral, Sony was quick to release some of the best VHS decks on the market. Dogma doesn't support multi-billion dollar corporations. Arguing that Beta is better (or that DisplayPort is better) doesn't matter if your potential customer base has only VHS tapes (or only has equipment with HDMI ports).

If Apple can't put out a "full" HDMI 1.3a compatible signal from its DisplayPort through extra-cost dongles, then Apple suffers.

But you haven't presented any case showing why it would not work.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

Your honor.

I have the new 13" MBP and the HDMI adaptor from monoprice came in the mail today ...

I'm afraid to say that audio does not seem to work.

I checked. No other options for sound output with the TV connected.

Hmm, if this is the case, that is very misleading information from Monoprice. You should contact them about this.

The thing is Monoprice says their adapters should work, so it should be 1.1a. We'll just have to wait and see until someone tries a different adapter.

The prosecution rests its case. We see that "it just works" is not apparent in the DP->HDMI argument.

The prosecution also points out that the defense's various arguments about "DisplayPort 1.2" don't seem to apply to various adapters to connect HDMI components to "DisplayPort 1.2" devices through available adapters.

The prosecution maintains its stance that support of HDMI standards, in particular HDMI 1.3a, is the necesary goal. Arguments about "DisplayPort 1.2" standards are not relevant to the goal of supporting home video through HDMI connections.

If the HDMI 1.3a hand won't fit into the DisplayPort 1.2 glove, you must convict.

 

[Hal Itosis]

The Home Theatre arena is an HDMI arena. Refusing to support HDMI standards is just as stupid (and just as annoying to customers) as refusing to support Blu-ray.

Yawn. That's just your opinion... and it's becoming increasingly irrelevant the more i read what you post around here. You seem to constantly play with information just to suit your point of view.

Sorry to have to tell you this but: Jobs is smarter (way smarter) than you. Innovation may be about being "ahead" sometimes... and sometimes innovation is about refusing to follow.

Apple has always been rooted in "Think Different"... and that philosophy —by necessity —will never conform to the norm (which you so aptly represent), and thus fail to satisfy each and every tom/dick/&/harry consumer on the planet.

It seems part of the decision to use a MDP (over HDMI) in the MBP has to do with driving a large display monitor. I'm not fully up to speed on all this, but clearly Apple thinks that's more relevant to a notebook's purpose than interfacing with some home theater system (so therefore those users can keep an adapter in their living room for that). If you disapprove and get all huffy about it, well... then perhaps that's just an unintended benefit of the design. [i doubt it was meant so personally.]

 

[AidenShaw]

It seems part of the decision to use a MDP (over HDMI) in the MBP has to do with driving a large display monitor.

Fine.

But if you claim to have a DP->HDMI capability - you should fully support the current HDMI standard.

Ignore HDMI. Or fully support it. Don't do a half-assed job of supporting it yet claim to support it.

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
The Home Theatre arena is an HDMI arena.

Yawn. That's just your opinion...

I don't think that I'm alone in my opinion, Hal.

 

[Hal Itosis]

Your honor.

The prosecution rests its case. We see that "it just works" is not apparent in the DP->HDMI argument.

The prosecution also points out that the defense's various arguments about "DisplayPort 1.2" don't seem to apply to various adapters to connect HDMI components to "DisplayPort 1.2" devices through available adapters.

The prosecution maintains its stance that support of HDMI standards, in particular HDMI 1.3a, is the necesary goal. Arguments about "DisplayPort 1.2" standards are not relevant to the goal of supporting home video through HDMI connections.

If the HDMI 1.3a hand won't fit into the DisplayPort 1.2 glove, you must convict.

Babble babble babble. You seem to be chasing the wrong perp. Try the adapter company.

Dismissed.

 

[AidenShaw]

Babble babble babble. You seem to be chasing the wrong perp. Try the adapter company.

Dismissed.

Please link to the Apple adapter part number.

 

[DMann]

The news of DP 1.2 seems to have ruffled the feathers of several whiners who've been griping endlessly about MDP 1.1a.

By doubling the maximum data transfer rate from 10.8 Gbps to 21.6 Gbps, this far surpasses the limitations of HDML, not to mention DP's seamless interconnect abilities over HDML's fixed channel distribution limitations.

The increase of the "AUX" channel bit rate to 720 Mbps, compared to HDML's maximum of 100 Mbps, is also significant.

Yawn. That's just your opinion... and it's becoming increasingly irrelevant the more i read what you post around here. You seem to constantly play with information just to suit your point of view.

I do concur - very well articulated and summarized.

May I add: extremely biased point of view.

It seems part of the decision to use a MDP (over HDMI) in the MBP has to do with driving a large display monitor. I'm not fully up to speed on all this, but clearly Apple thinks that's more relevant to a notebook's purpose than interfacing with some home theater system (so therefore those users can keep an adapter in their living room for that). If you disapprove and get all huffy about it, well... then perhaps that's just an unintended benefit of the design. [i doubt it was meant so personally.]

This certainly does seem to be the case.

The multi-streaming capabilities and extremely high data transfer rates of DP make it far superior to the older, legacy technology, HDMI - DP having multiple monitor support of up to four 1920 x 1200 monitors, or two 2560 x 1600 monitors.

Unlike HDML, it's neither limited nor confined to a specific set of resolutions.

 

[Zakareas]

MBP 13 possible summer update?

Anyone know if its possible that apple would launch another update on the 13 inch MBP this summer? (I heard somewhere that they are planning to cancel c2d production during summer) and also if they would update the normal macbook, they would have to update the MBP 2 because the difference would be so minor.... any opinions?