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This could be the next "BIG THING" if what I'm reading is correct. The key word there is NON-VOLATILE. Regular system type ram has never been non-volatile and while it's been faster than either flash storage or SSD drives, you could never swap one for the other without dire consequences. In other words, SSD storage, fast as it is can't compare to regular memory speeds and using regular memory for storage would mean you'd have to keep it refreshed (power to it) making it largely useless for storage as it would be erased the moment it lost battery power and it would be a relative power hog. Here, however, you have the potential to replace FLASH, SSD and RAM all with this new type of memory. Imagine a computer that comes with 5TB of this stuff that is both RAM and STORAGE with no differentiation between the two and now speed drops transferring things. Games would never "load" in the traditional sense again as "loading" is moving data from storage to the main system memory so the CPU can manipulate it. Here, there wouldn't have to be a difference! Even external storage of this type would be as fast as the data bus lines could possibly move it (with current technology), making all current SSDs obsolete, etc. The only issue, of course, is PRICE. I'd imagine, however, that this stuff is going to be so popular that it will change the face of the entire computing industry within a few years time, unless it has a major manufacturing issue. The article mentioned it being designed to be affordable yet throws "too expensive at first" back in your face in the same article so I imagine that will be a limiting factor at first. But long term, storage may change entirely.

In the sense that it's solid-state, perhaps. But it's more like this will change computing history. Current so-called "SSDs" are likely doomed to total obsolescence within the next few years if this stuff can be made affordable.



Nonsense. This does not make the actual CPU faster or your graphics card faster, except that it can communicate faster. The point is the CPU limits what can be done in the end. You can't create something akin to THE MATRIX just because you have faster memory. You need more CPU and GPU power just for starters. As I've said, this could potentially kill current conventional storage and memory. Storage has always been a bottleneck, though.

I'm curious exactly how more robust this memory is. Are we talking about something that could be trusted for 100+ year storage like manufactured (pitted) music CDs can supposedly survive? One of the limitations of SSDs (and conventional hard drives for that matter) is the mean time to failure. It's why backups are so important (along with malware and fires and other things). You'd never be able to entirely eliminate backups for the latter reasons, but they would be less crucial if failure happened less often.

Now think about what this technology will do to networking. I'd stop investing in so-called "Cloud Storage" right NOW. This is going to literally KILL THE CLOUD for significant data storage. Small stuff (bookmarks, saved game progress, etc.) will continue, but few are going to want to backup terabytes of data over a SLOW NETWORK CONNECTION (and make no mistake, even Google Fiber is SLOOOOW compared to what we're talking about here, like conventional hard drive slow, maybe 120MB/sec. That's fast for networking and acceptable for backing up large drives once in awhile (assuming you could actually upload that fast, usually it's just the download rates that are that fast). But SSDs are around 10x faster. Now imagine storage that is 1000x faster. But WAIT, the article seems to be comparing that speed to RAM, not storage! RAM is nearly 20x faster than the fastest SSDs. Thus, if this stuff is 1000x faster than ram, then it might be 20,000 times faster than SSDs!!! No network "CLOUD" connection on Earth can compare to that. I submit that THE CLOUD IS DEAD for big data storage and it doesn't know it yet. Sell stock NOW. :D

Agreed, this IS HUGE.

A HUGE breakthrough in computing storage and memory technology. One of the biggest technological breakthrough in decades.

This potential means future systems will not have a storage device, and a memory device . I will simply have 1 storage/memory chip. when you look at your computer / tablet /smartphone specs. You will not look for storage size, and RAM size, you will simply just look for the Xpoint size and speed. Of course software will have to be redesigned to take advantage of this, operating systems, and applications will work very differently.

Worrying about how much RAM an application is using, may become an issue of the past. When writing applications developers may not need to care how much memory it is using or leaking etc. Because there simply won't be any memory.


No, it's not "insane" it is just that NAND Flash is that slow compared to other types of memory

It is insane, NAND is not slow, it is the fastest non-volatile storage technology, other than this obviously.
 
You will not look for storage size, and RAM size, you will simply just look for the Xpoint size and speed. Of course software will have to be redesigned to take advantage of this, operating systems, and applications will work very differently.

Even if the OS needs to adapt, you'd probably still want a filesystem abstraction on top of storage, and you can memorymap storage to access it like memory.

It is insane, NAND is not slow, it is the fastest non-volatile storage technology, other than this obviously.


NAND is slow if you think of it as memory and DRAM is slow if you compare it to SRAM.
 
And so if the whole is one die, they are saying the max storage is 128GB, not anything greater than on a current iPhone 6.

Once again, It's 128GB per die (which should be confirmed if its GB or Gb).

128GB / 256GB / 512GB / 1TB Configurations can be done in 1 Die / 2 Die/ 4Die and 8Die configurations (depending on packaging constraints). Keeping the same package size foot print.

That's what they are saying....
 
Just in time for iPhone 12S.

I admire the optimism that assumes Apple have enough trickle-fed "upgrades" and minor improvements to sustain the iPhone for another 5-6 generations. I am not saying "won't", but I feel it's unlikely, as it's just minor revisions and poor reasons to "upgrade" considering the ridiculous prices (STILL!) and the alternatives available from other vendors.
 
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When this is out you won't want an SSD any longer. ;)

Glassed Silver:mac
You're right, but I'm all for faster technology becoming standard! :)

I feel that by 2020, all PCs should come with an SSD standard, even if they're the slower kind. The prices have come down so much over the past decade that we just might get there.
 
I don't know if anybody has ever priced those PCIe SSDs But I have seen some in the $10,000 - $20,000 range. That may be where this kinda deal is, in the beginning.

PCIe SSDs are typically designed for Enterprise so they will get Enterprise pricing and support. These boards have both over provision and die pickings per testing is done so that this level of memory is highest quality. You are also not just buying the SSD itself but an entire enterprise solution. That's how companies can increase their margin costs.
 
This could be the next "BIG THING" if what I'm reading is correct. The key word there is NON-VOLATILE. Regular system type ram has never been non-volatile and while it's been faster than either flash storage or SSD drives, you could never swap one for the other without dire consequences. In other words, SSD storage, fast as it is can't compare to regular memory speeds and using regular memory for storage would mean you'd have to keep it refreshed (power to it) making it largely useless for storage as it would be erased the moment it lost battery power and it would be a relative power hog. Here, however, you have the potential to replace FLASH, SSD and RAM all with this new type of memory. Imagine a computer that comes with 5TB of this stuff that is both RAM and STORAGE with no differentiation between the two and now speed drops transferring things. Games would never "load" in the traditional sense again as "loading" is moving data from storage to the main system memory so the CPU can manipulate it. Here, there wouldn't have to be a difference! Even external storage of this type would be as fast as the data bus lines could possibly move it (with current technology), making all current SSDs obsolete, etc. The only issue, of course, is PRICE. I'd imagine, however, that this stuff is going to be so popular that it will change the face of the entire computing industry within a few years time, unless it has a major manufacturing issue. The article mentioned it being designed to be affordable yet throws "too expensive at first" back in your face in the same article so I imagine that will be a limiting factor at first. But long term, storage may change entirely.

Awsomesauce!
 
When this product (the 3D XPoint Flash memory disk) initially hits the market, what do you estimate the maximum capacity of one of these drives will be? (like with current ones it was 512GB)...

max capacity will be a lot higher than you're led to believe ;)

they won't let loose the 5TB versions right away.. it will be 1TB max at first.. then they magically managed to double that capacity in a year.. then a price drop year.. then more capacity year.. then after that's all done, the next new thing comes in to replace.
wash/rinse/repeat.
 
Looks like I won't upgrade my Mac Pro any further right now. Best to save the money for when the new technology comes out.
 
thought the cloud was better used as a workflow tool and/or a means to access all data from multiple points.

And that's a good use for it and will continue to be one. However, many people have speculated that "everything" (more or less) will be in the "Cloud" in the future and one will not need much on-site storage. I found that unsafe at best and slow to boot. But this obviates that idea for now.
 
This could be the next "BIG THING" if what I'm reading is correct. The key word there is NON-VOLATILE. Regular system type ram has never been non-volatile and while it's been faster than either flash storage or SSD drives, you could never swap one for the other ...

It used to be that all memory was non-volatile. Core memory was great in that you could unplug the memory board, ship it to a customer, plug it in at the customer site, and then turn on the computer and have it running the code that was there.

Now, the invention of DRAM that really brought volatile memory to the computers. (And SRAM, albeit it was somewhat non-volatile - just capacitor leakage so it lasted for hours or days) It used to be that early boot would need to be sure to clear the memory such that left over data was not visible (or not clear the data in order to debug prior operation :) )

As such, it would be great to have memory that is non-volatile and at least as fast as good DRAM. We would not need to hybernate any more - wake up could be nearly instant - and, if storage really is cost effective, 64-bit systems could have all code and data effectively loaded at the same time - no more switching. (I want 4TB of this non-volatile storage that is both the RAM for the machine and the disk... That would be so amazing)

However, I doubt that this will hit the performance of high speed DRAM. It will be significantly faster than traditional FLASH (at least for most use cases) but DRAM is already too slow and there are interesting designs for faster DRAM coming. I hope/wish that this or some other technology will be that new, ultra-fast DRAM replacement but...
 
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And that's a good use for it and will continue to be one. However, many people have speculated that "everything" (more or less) will be in the "Cloud" in the future and one will not need much on-site storage. I found that unsafe at best and slow to boot. But this obviates that idea for now.
i just don't see it as one or the other.. or-they don't compete with each other.. each has its particular usages.

that said, in wonder_world, it's cloud computing which could kill off on-site and not the other way around.. say a drive's only limit was speed of light.. it could move unlimited data at that speed.. there would still be cloud computing.

say it was the other way around though.. there'd be no need for on-site storage.
 
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I seem to recall a similar company called Constellation 3D pioneering this about 15 years ago.
...losing some money on their stock, etc. Hopefully this time it gains a foothold.
 
Only capable of 128GB of storage??
That's just the size of the first sample parts, likely the initial product offering.

With more layers (the first item has two), there's room for a lot more capacity. Just not right now.
 
And so if the whole is one die, they are saying the max storage is 128GB, not anything greater than on a current iPhone 6.
No, in the video presentation by Intel and Micron, the first product part will be 128Gb. It's only two-layer, later parts can have more layers, and they expect that it can be scaled down quickly, so densities should come up rapidly. First product some time next year (they kept saying "2016").
 
so does this replace the ssd and the system memory and make it one solution? is this a shift in hardware architecture? as in making the ssd and system memory the same component on a system board?
It's a lot faster than NAND flash, not as fast as the fastest DRAM. As things go, SATA/SAS are saturated by current SSD devices, so faster busses will be needed to keep up on the storage side. The Intel guy pointed out that they had reasons for working on things like higher-performance ThunderBolt and other buss technologies. On the memory side, things are currently a bit better, but still amenable to improvement.
 
I suppose this speed news is great, and probably more beneficial to my life than I realize, but the prospect of greater speeds doesn't excite me as much as the prospect of how this may give way to longer battery life for our devices.

The storage technology advancement I'm hoping for most though is simply higher density storage (at reasonable prices). I dream of a day when ALL my devices--from laptop to phone--can store a copy of all my terabytes of data in a compact, light, and energy efficient form factor, and then I won't be forced to pay companies monthly to feed me my data through the cloud (Evernote, Dropbox, etc.), and have to pay yet another company so much monthly to give me access TO the cloud (Time Warner, Verizon). It really feels like these companies love that storage technology is getting faster but smaller in capacity, which means they can continue to charge us to store and feed us our own data. In essence we're paying for something that already belongs to us, which is a lot like a hostage situation if you think about it--except our ransom is monthly. I eagerly await a large jump in storage capacity technology to break this dumb model.

And that's a good use for it and will continue to be one. However, many people have speculated that "everything" (more or less) will be in the "Cloud" in the future and one will not need much on-site storage. I found that unsafe at best and slow to boot. But this obviates that idea for now.

People actually want that to happen (everything in the cloud)?? Why??
 
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