Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Intel Arrandale Benchmarks Show Major Improvements for Notebooks

The problem here isn't whether or not Apple can use a discrete video card. Of course they can. They problem is that they don't want to - at least for their cheaper line of notebooks. They don't want to have to go back to the day of sticking a Radeon 9200 into the ibooks. Which is exactly why when they switched to Intel, Apple was perfectly happy just using the integrated Intel graphics in the Macbook line... at least until Nvidia came along and offered them something much faster with only having to switch the northbridge on the motherboard.

Now intel isn't allowing Nvidia or AMD to make alternative northbridge chipsets for their i7/i5/i3 line of CPU's. Thus, Apple will be forced to either
1.) Use the (very sucky) integrated Intel graphics, causing consumers to complain that they are getting a "downgrade"
2.) Use a discrete video card which has the potential to hurt battery life and have added costs which would hurt Apple's profit margins - something we all know Apple doesn't like to do.
 
I still think the higher end MBP's with discrete graphics chips are going to get the quad-core Clarksfields. The Arrandale is going to be used on the lower end MBP and MBA that currently use integrated graphics chips.
 
CubeHacker said:
2.) Use a discrete video card which has the potential to hurt battery life....
Click to expand...

Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.
 
would these new laptops preform better than my powermac 1.8 dual g5? I'm thinking of upgrading and getting a laptop.
 
AidenShaw said:
Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.
Click to expand...

That is true, but the Mac Mini, Macbook, and Macbook Air line never featured switchable graphics. And I doubt Apple would want to confuse users by having two different graphics cores with very different capabilities. Thus, if Apple were to use discrete graphics chips in these computers, it would have the potential to hurt battery life.
 
AidenShaw said:
Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.
Click to expand...
But you won't have the advantage of having decent gfx performance with good battery life at the same time like you did with the 9400M.
 
csdibiase said:
I'm really hoping we don't have to wait any longer than January 26th for the new MBP's. I really want to get a macbook pro but I don't want to dive in right at the end of a cycle.
Click to expand...



me too man! ive been waiting for 3-4 months now for an update i cant stand my 6 year old PC:( they better have MBP updates this jan or im just going to get one, i cant wait much longer then that. plus i think there will be a lot more then just a tablet, im thinking the updated MBP will be there intro to the conference..:D im just hoping that all of them get an update not just the 15" and 17" :apple:
 
AidenShaw said:
Why aren't people complaining that the radio chip in the Iphone supports an FM tuner (which Apple is not using)? Is every Iphone user being penalized because a few transistors on a large scale integrated circuit aren't being utilized?

The Iphone would cost more, not less, if Apple insisted on a custom chip without the FM radio tuner. Same with Arrandale - a custom chip for Apple would cost much more.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics. It's a monopolistic practice, something that Intel is known for. Intel has already paid out multi-million dollar settlements for similar actions, and yet this is how they continue to run their business. Please keep in mind that competitors are what keep companies innovating. By not allowing NVIDIA to compete, Intel is pushing them out of the market so that they can then raise their prices and lower their quality without fear of losing customers. That is just the long-term effect. In the short-term, you should note that NVIDIA graphics are currently far superior than Intel's offerings, so the consumer is hurt immediately. It does not matter that a company like Apple can use discrete graphics, because products like the MacBook or the Mac Mini rely solely on integrated graphics for things like cost and battery life, and the MacBook Pro currently offers dual-graphics so that you can use the integrated to improve battery life or discrete for improved performance. Intel is trying to force Apple and other companies to use only their inferior integrated graphics by building it all together and not offering a stand-alone chip. It's a monopoly practice designed to push out competitors. This is bad for the consumer. Instead of building a better product than NVIDIA and letting the consumer/Apple choose, they are simply forcing you to use their product. I hope you are able to see this.
 
I'm going to wait 'til after the event on 1/26, even though my 15" MBP is dying. Sure, I need it for work, but I also need the latest & greatest or I'll be stuck second guessing myself into oblivion. Eegads, it's so hard to keep my hands off that sinful unibody! Do any gamblers want to lay odds on the 1/26 release date, or is that entirely futile with Apple? Is that turnaround too rapid to be realistic? I'll shut up now.
 
Adokimus said:
You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics. It's a monopolistic practice, something that Intel is known for. Intel has already paid out multi-million dollar settlements for similar actions, and yet this is how they continue to run their business. Please keep in mind that competitors are what keep companies innovating. By not allowing NVIDIA to compete, Intel is pushing them out of the market so that they can then raise their prices and lower their quality without fear of losing customers. That is just the long-term effect. In the short-term, you should note that NVIDIA graphics are currently far superior than Intel's offerings, so the consumer is hurt immediately. It does not matter that a company like Apple can use discrete graphics, because products like the MacBook or the Mac Mini rely solely on integrated graphics for things like cost and battery life, and the MacBook Pro currently offers dual-graphics so that you can use the integrated to improve battery life or discrete for improved performance. Intel is trying to force Apple and other companies to use only their inferior integrated graphics by building it all together and not offering a stand-alone chip. It's a monopoly practice designed to push out competitors. This is bad for the consumer. Instead of building a better product than NVIDIA and letting the consumer/Apple choose, they are simply forcing you to use their product. I hope you are able to see this.
Click to expand...
No one seems to care about AMD...
 
Eidorian said:
No one seems to care about AMD...
Click to expand...

Both Intel and Nvidia dominate their respective markets, each having twice the market share of their competitor. Nvidia as of late seems to have been merely rebranding, rather than innovating. But few would question Intel's superior processor power.

Still waiting for a 13-incher with better graphics than the ION right now. And Arrandale would certainly be a nice touch.
 
Adokimus said:
I only mentioned NVIDIA because their integrated graphics solutions are being used in the current generation of Macs. See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html for one of the legal settlements I was referencing.
Click to expand...
Can you go on about nVidia's situation for the AMD platform?

Beric said:
Both Intel and Nvidia dominate their respective markets, each having twice the market share of their competitor. Nvidia as of late seems to have been merely rebranding, rather than innovating. But few would question Intel's superior processor power.

Still waiting for a 13-incher with better graphics than the ION right now. And Arrandale would certainly be a nice touch.
Click to expand...
nVidia has effectively been kicked out of the chipset market. The only remaining partner they really have left is VIA but I haven't seen anything beyond some ION2 slides. What really bothers me is that ION2 is just a GPU but reusing the name makes you think it's the IGP, northbridge, and I/O package again.
 
I don't see the point in Apple using these slightly faster processors in their systems if they're still sticking with such low-end graphics.

Look at the current MacBook "Pro" lineup.

The highest end stock 15.4" and 17" MacBook "Pro" (yes I use the quotations for a reason) ship with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duos. But they're paired with GeForce 9600M GTs. The low end 15.4" system has a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo paired with a GeForce 9400M.

Whats the point of having reasonably fast processors when they're held back by suck low end graphics? Even when Apple finally switched to the 9600M GT in 2008, it was already several months old and low end by that point.

How will Apple price the new systems? Are they seriously going to try to push dual core Core i5 chips at the same $1100 and up price point that currently gets you Core i7, blu-ray, and high end GPUs in Windows notebook PCs?

I guess we'll see. They have been pushing faster and faster Core 2 Duos and low end GPUs while, during the early half of last year, PC notebooks went Core 2 Quad with GPUs that were several times faster than the 9600M GT, all while costing less..
 
mosx said:
I don't see the point in Apple using these slightly faster processors in their systems if they're still sticking with such low-end graphics.

Look at the current MacBook "Pro" lineup.

The highest end stock 15.4" and 17" MacBook "Pro" (yes I use the quotations for a reason) ship with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duos. But they're paired with GeForce 9600M GTs. The low end 15.4" system has a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo paired with a GeForce 9400M.

Whats the point of having reasonably fast processors when they're held back by suck low end graphics? Even when Apple finally switched to the 9600M GT in 2008, it was already several months old and low end by that point.

How will Apple price the new systems? Are they seriously going to try to push dual core Core i5 chips at the same $1100 and up price point that currently gets you Core i7, blu-ray, and high end GPUs in Windows notebook PCs?

I guess we'll see. They have been pushing faster and faster Core 2 Duos and low end GPUs while, during the early half of last year, PC notebooks went Core 2 Quad with GPUs that were several times faster than the 9600M GT, all while costing less..
Click to expand...

I assent completely. And as the GPU's in the MBP's are without doubt due for an upgrade, the refresh will tell us exactly what direction they are going in regard to GPU's. The high end better have some serious power, and not cost twice what it should for the specs. The 13" MBP better have ION 2 or dedicated graphics.

If the 13" MBP gets:
Solely Intel integrated: Apple is cheapening their laptops still further, and the "Pro" name needs to be stripped.
Same old 9400M: Apple lacks innovation and will continue to sell outdated technology for inflated prices, for as log as it can.
As of yet unreleased ION2: Apple got a special deal with Nvidia, and will continue to progress its technology, though still perhaps not as much as it might.
Dedicated Nvidia or ATI graphics: Apple is investing in current technology, and is concerned with providing the latest tech (Assuming it doesn't cost any more than right now).
 
what are these "second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics"? the ultra-low voltage variants are due out this week. there's nothing on the wiki page of future intel microprocessors about an arrandale variant in Q2 2010.
 
Sauce for the goose, ...

Adokimus said:
You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics.
Click to expand...

What I don't understand is the double-standard that so often comes up here at MR.

When Palm started selling the Pre with Itunes sync, there was outrage that Palm was "stealing" all of Apple's hard work on Itunes. Bad Palm. Bad.

But now, the MR folks expect Intel to give away all of their IP work on QPI to Nvidia. Huh?

And, by the way, don't confuse the Westmere issue with the older chips.

Nvidia was selling a Northbridge with integrated graphics (9400). Arrandale does not have a Northbridge. So, it's literally impossible for Nvidia to make a Northbridge for Arrandale - in spite of any licensing issues.

Nvidia could make a bang-up low power discrete chip - but not a Northbridge. (The Core i7-9xx have north and south bridges, so there a licensing deal is possible.)
 
iDisk said:
Core i3 Chips 330M & 350M Will go into the Air
Click to expand...

Ummm. With 35W power consumption, the Core i3 is NOT going into the Air.

The Core i7 640UM is the replacement for the MacBook Air's processor with 18W consumption.
 
Maserati7200 said:
But you won't have the advantage of having decent gfx performance with good battery life at the same time like you did with the 9400M.
Click to expand...

The mini should have a good video chip as it does not have a battery in it and at $800 you are not far off a core i7 system with a good video card and much bigger HDD.
 
AidenShaw said:
Nvidia could make a bang-up low power discrete chip - but not a Northbridge. (The Core i7-9xx have north and south bridges, so there a licensing deal is possible.)
Click to expand...
ION2 is still alive and kicking to some extent. Though it is a shadow of its former self.

We'll still have to see if Charlie was right but a mobile optimized G218 (G 210) feels like it will have less potential than the original 32 shader upgrade from 16 on the original ION. I was hoping for 8600M GS/GT like performance with the draw back of shared RAM.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back