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neither actually, they are both integrated.. so technically (by my standards anyway), they are both crap.

Just because it's an integrated GPU does not automatically mean that it's crap. True. standalone GPU are usually faster than contemporary integrated solutions, but it still does have to mean that the integrated solution is downright slow.

Ions 9400M is A LOT faster tham GMA950 is. I can easily see Ion outperforming curren Mac Mini in games and video-intensive tasks.

And, combined with Snow Leopard, Ion-equipped Mini could be very fast indeed. Atom is fast enough for general purpose tasks, and tasks that require floating-point-crunching could be offloaded to the GPU.

for a basic server/centre yes.. for people like me who will be using it more intensly, no.

I'm not expert in the field, but it seems to me that the ion would be suitable for you. If it isn't, then C2D-equipped Mini wouldn't be either.
 
When I read the first two lines "Intel Atom" on the headline I experienced a flow of joy when I thought to myself Apple is releasing a netbook. Unfortunately, I was so excited that I misread it as it is the Mac Mini which will have the Intel Atom:(

WTF is Apple thinking of?:confused: First they take away Firewire from the new MacBook and now they could be downgrading the Mac Mini to Intel Atom:(

Apple are really taking the p**s now!


Art
 
People who have gotten OS X working on Atom-powered netbooks say it's really slow. That's not a scenario OS X was optimized for, since it's not authorized Apple hardware, but still, I'm not sure the Atom is powerful enough for OS X. It's certainly not powerful enough for Vista.

On the new Mac mini Apple will run the new OS X nano (or lite, or whatever will they call it). The nano version will have some functions disabled, but it will work. There will be also an iLife nano in the package. :p
 
I could see them using this processor in a netbook, the rumored larger iPod Touch, or the Apple TV. I seriously doubt Apple would take a step backward and decrease the speed of the Mini.
 
If you connect a mac mini (via HDMI if they ever start including those in their hardware, or a DVI-HDMI converter) to an HD tv, will it work? Thats my only use for a mac mini, as a media center for my room, along with my PS3.
My apologies for a seemingly primitive question, but we never ask, we will never know :)
 
Um, Atom-equipped Mini could handle media-center tasks just fine.... Hell, AppleTV handles those tasks just fine, and with less horsepower!

The users of Mythtv have been waiting for an Atom / ION system. They are currently beta testing VDPAU playback of 1080 hd content using NVIDIA chipsets that offload all the video decoding to the video chip. I think the cpu usage went from 100% to 20% or lower so this will make a nice entertainment center.
 
First, I want to point out theres a lot of misinformation in this thread.

People are saying that we need a new Mac mini with the 9400M for things like media playback.

I completely agree, the Intel Mac minis have ALWAYS been in need of significant upgrades thanks to the use of Intel GPUs.

However, one thing to keep in mind is that OS X DOES NOT offer any sort of hardware acceleration for video.

Snow Leopard supposedly will, but Leopard itself offers very basic and very limited hardware support for video.

So for the 9400M to make ANY different in any Mac its put in, Apple needs to finally bring OS X into the modern world and fully support what these GPUs have offered for many years now, the same way Windows has been taking advantage of them since the 90s.

Now I want to reply to this:

The Core2Duo's are better at normal computing tasks. But I bet you, that if a PS3 with Core2Duo processors went up against a Normal PS3 playing a game with advanced AI, and complex graphics, the normal PS3 would preform better. While the processors in gaming systems maybe rudimentry compared to C2D's for normal computing tasks, they can crunch massive ammounts of data, and can habdle games better then a C2D. Different processors are meant for different activities.

Don

Thats completely untrue. The "Cell" in the PS3 is nothing more than an old single core PowerPC processor with a bunch of 32-bit co-processors tacked on for good measure.

Despite Sony's claims, the "Cell" has absolutely nothing to do with graphics processing. I mean it does have the standard job of telling the GPU how to draw what on screen, but it cannot help improve the quality or speed of rendering, despite Sony trying to convince people otherwise.

You want proof that Core 2 Duos are better for gaming than the "Cell"? Look no further than Grand Theft Auto 4. GTA4 is unique in the way that its calculating physics for nearly everything on screen in real-time at all times. If you have 20 cars on screen and 15 people walking down the street, the engine is calculating the physics for everything for each one of those objects onscreen. A system with a Core 2 Duo running at around 2.4GHz paired with a GeForce 8800GT will be able to run at least 3x the amount of onscreen detail as the PS3 version. Don't try to tell me otherwise, or say the game runs bad on PCs. It doesn't. I play it on both of my computers, including my aluminum MacBook.

Look at another game, UT3. Built from the ground up for the PS3 and PC. Yet the PS3 version runs at less than half the speed, lower resolution, and lower detail settings compared to even low-end PCs at the time of the games release. My aluminum MacBook can run it at higher details with more onscreen action and at double the frame-rate, albeit at a slightly lower resolution than 720p.

Quite honestly, the PS3's "Cell" is nothing short of a joke. The main core, the PPC core, is so painfully slow that it has no business even being around modern games. And the "SPEs", the co-processors, are somehow even worse. They're good at very linear and predictive math, the type Photoshop would use.. but they've proven to fail massively when it comes to demanding physics or AI. Just look at GTA4 as an example. Or even Half-Life 2.

The GPU in the PS3 is a massive failure as well. It's basically the equivalent of 2 GeForce FX 5200s taped together and forced to run in SLI mode. With the exception of Oblivion, which had an extra year in development and all new textures, PS3 games run at lower resolutions, lower detail settings, and have significantly lower resolution textures compared to Xbox360 versions of the same game. Again, look at GTA4. Look at Fallout 3 and others as well. And then when you compare to the PC version its simply no contest at all. And you most certainly do not need a high end PC to beat the PS3. A Core 2 Duo running at ~2.4GHz with a GeForce 8800GT and a couple of gigs of RAM will beat the PS3 and it will cost only a little more than the PS3 currently does. When the PS3 was first launched in 2006 at $599(!), you could build a PC then for about the same price and it too would have beat the PS3 in graphics. Honestly, PS3s a joke.

But thats all for another thread ;)

Back to the Mac mini discussion.

I honestly don't see how Apple could even still charge $799 for any Mac mini.

The parts are dirt cheap these days. A 160GB notebook drive is what? $50 now? A notebook DVD writer is about $40. Even using high end parts, a Mac mini with DVD writer, 9400M, 2GB of RAM, and at least a 2GHz Core 2 Duo Penryn can't realistically cost more than $400 to build. They could sell that at $499 and still make a nice profit.
 
Not true.

But I am a bit bemused as to why Atom would go into a desktop, other than a media centre sort of machine. I was actually thinking of an EEE Box to go under the tv, but I might hang off to see what pans out on this.

Out of interest this is where the Atom 330 stands in processor benchmarks (From here)

Not calling you out personally, but something is SERIOUSLY wrong with that chart.

Seriously.

Athlon 64/FX spanks almost all P4s. Xeons that clock faster are ranked lower than a P4, when they're the same chip, except for the addition of more cache/SMP instruction.

There is absolutely no way an Intel Atom, even dual-core, is faster than a 3.2 GHz Pentium4 HT.

Not to mention there is no such thing as a Dual CPU Pentium 4.
 
Let's not forget that Snow Leopard will better utilize the GPU. Maybe that's a clue that SL is soon to be released.
 
Let's not forget that Snow Leopard will better utilize the GPU. Maybe that's a clue that SL is soon to be released.

A doubt that will happen in March. Apple said that Snow Leopard will be released a year from last Sumer and thats probably true. For some reason, Apple usually seems behind schedule so it might even be later than June. But, June is my guess.
 
It's not for either. The point of the Apple TV is to play video.

YOU CAN'T PLAY 1080P VIDEO ON A FRICKING ATOM.

So anything that happens to the Apple TV will NOT be as sucktacular as an Atom.

Why not? First AppleTV used Pentium D (i think) clocked around 1GHz only and it can do 720p... if I compare this with 1.6GHz dual core whatever, i believe it can do 1080p. Plus using Nvidia 9400 graphics, next appleTV would have OpenCL activated in its OSX.
 
I could see Apple doing this just as a final FU to the crowd that wants the Mini to be a 'poor mans Mac Pro'.

Deliver something powerful enough to handle any day to day office, browsing or media task that cant compare to their pro line in real computing horsepower. Just like the new Macbooks and Macbook Pros, taking a single crucial feature and using it to define what is pro and what isnt. In that case it was FW, in the case of the desktops perhaps it will be CPU power.

If that let them deliver the Mini at a better price while maintaing their margins it could certainly help to grow their market share. A Dual core Atom with a good GPU and an OS that can take advantage of both would be more then enough for most users.

I could totally see Apple doing this. And I say that as someone who wants a xMac as bad as anyone. A 2009 re-imagination of the Cube would be perfect for me right now. But it just isnt in the cards.
 
please

just give us an updated dual or quad with nvidia graphics....

don't even bother with the case.

My credit card is getting dusty waiting....
 
just give us an updated dual or quad with nvidia graphics....

don't even bother with the case.

My credit card is getting dusty waiting....

AMEN!!!

Though not stellar, if they just put the newer C2D chips with (sigh, supposed there's no way around this) whatever the latest shared GPU, it'll be an actual upgrade. If they put an Atom in it'll be a downgrade. Unless they drop the price which, even with the C2D it's still priced too high for what it is IMHO. After all there's netbooks and some (ugly, clunky, cheap) peecees out there for less than the MacMini with equal or better specs... and a monitor and keyboard! I don't buy anyone at Apple saying they don't make a profit on the MacMini, that's horsehockey.
 
An overpriced and underpowered Mac mini just to make it smaller sounds exactly what Apple would do.
That's right, although I can't see them going as far as the Atom. The 2.0 GHz Penryn looks quite compelling though (I'm assuming it's cheaper than the $209 2.27 GHz), and I can see Apple making the case a bit smaller due to the cooler CPU. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple downclocked the GPU like on the MacBook Air, but this time for differentiation as well as smaller case size.

You need more than just the OS (+browser and mail).

A big selling point for the Mac is iLife. The new anti shage feature in iLife09 takes a while even on a C2D, can you imagine that on the Atom? Maybe even with HD content? How long would it take to import from an AVCHD camcorder? These _are_ consumer applications!

How do you sell a computer that is hardly half as fast as the previous model?
Some of Keynote's features are fairly CPU-intensive on my G4 too. And that is precisely why there won't be Atom in any Mac, at least not until GPU acceleration is more widespread.
 
The Mac Mini is not for "real" desktop use.

It's been pretty clear from the beginning that it's for hobbyists and those new to the platform to get their feet wet before buying a "real" Mac (iMac, Power Mac, MacBook, MacBook Pro). Use of the atom just cements this.

For the home theater enthusiasts, you can easily buy a Shuttle and put some decent hardware to handle HDTV (along with everything else you can throw at it).
 
This thread has been hilarious. Seeing everyone scream and thrash like children is rather funny, when in the context of this being some third hand piece of information passed under a table scrawled on a napkin.

The Mac Mini is not for "real" desktop use.

It's been pretty clear from the beginning that it's for hobbyists and those new to the platform to get their feet wet before buying a "real" Mac (iMac, Power Mac, MacBook, MacBook Pro).

Your lack of definition concerning "real" is sadness personified. Apple wants people to be able to use all their software, so if the mini can browse the web, play all media, do Final Cut Express, iWork and iLife, it's probably good enough. The mini isn't supposed to be the fastest mac, but it should function for all base computer use.
 
The Core2Duo's are better at normal computing tasks. But I bet you, that if a PS3 with Core2Duo processors went up against a Normal PS3 playing a game with advanced AI, and complex graphics, the normal PS3 would preform better. While the processors in gaming systems maybe rudimentry compared to C2D's for normal computing tasks, they can crunch massive ammounts of data, and can habdle games better then a C2D. Different processors are meant for different activities.

The only things they're comparable at are exactly what I mentioned-very predictable repetitive tasks like decoding video. Game code does NOT fall into that category for the most part.

The 360 and PS3 CPUs have all the same flaws as the Pentium 4, but far far worse (and new flaws).

I would hardly call the Xenon or Cell as "primitive". Yes, they lack many features found in (for example) C2D. But that because they are custom-built CPU's, dedicated for very specific tasks, as opposed of being general purpose CPU's like we have in our computers. They don't need those particular features.

Those tasks they're good at though, as mentioned, don't include games.

Source please?

A developer talking to Anandtech probably. I'm surprised you haven't heard that. Besides which, it's pretty obvious just looking at the specs on paper that the performance is going to be around that.

depends on what you want to do with the chip. Run an OS and do some word-processing? C2D all the way! Want to do stream lots of data or do floating-point calculations (like consoles are tasked to do)? Cell will massacre C2D.

No, it wouldn't. Even assuming you're doing something where Cell could reach close to it's max potential (ie decoding video), a Core 2 quad has considerably more raw floating point hardware (and a Core 2 duo nearly as much) and would do better still. In reality though, for most things any Core 2 is going to tear Cell apart as it not only has more execution hardware, it's far more efficient.

Again, a Pentium 4 destroys those two CPU architectures. Atom is the closest you can get to those two console CPUs from Intel.
 
thus why i have been waiting for a good year and a half for a decent mini to be brought out!!!


your link doesnt work. EDIT: wait yes it does, let me read it.

if somebody could give some benchmarks that accurately show how the Atom would compare to a C2D then i may be swayed :p


HAHAHAHAHAHA. apple would still charge the same prices, i guarantee it.

EDIT: ok i read it, nowhere near good enough. i would have it hooked up to my TV at 1920x1080.. games would fail hardcore on that thing. no thanks :(. doesnt seem very good at converting video either (laughs at 1fps).

You sure like to laugh a lot. Is that giddy insanity or the nitrous oxide taking effect?
 
Maybe they're using Atom because they plan on merging the :apple:TV and the Mac Mini... a more advanced media center.

I love my :apple:TV right now, but I'd trade it in a heart beat for a more complete media center if Apple were to release one.
 
For the home theater enthusiasts, you can easily buy a Shuttle and put some decent hardware to handle HDTV (along with everything else you can throw at it).

Difference of opinion - but having a media server that can read/write in the HFS format and running OS X is very powerful in a Mac household.
 
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