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duke49er said:
People...people...please...

First of all: Apple is not switching to Intel; Intel is switching to Apple.

Second: If the collaboration is in fact going to occur then what makes you think that they would use the x86? They could come up with something else you know?

If the announcement is going to be made tomorrow then how long ago do you think they made the decision? Certainly not last night. These things take time and as such I am sure they have been working on all (or at least most of) the problems that everyone is bringing up here. Running OSX on different hardware will not be simple "emulation" like I've read 10561089 times in this thread, that is just ridiculous!

Everyone here is assuming that they will make the announcement first and THEN consider all the issues, I refuse to believe that this is the case. I think that they will consider the issues first and THEN the'll make the announcement. If they will make the announcement monday morning then I'm sure that everything has already been worked out.Steve may have made bad decisions in the past but he's wiser now and he's certainly not stupid.

So get a grip.

Well said, I think people lose faith in Apple too quickly.
 
Proof that this is a huge story: I just heard Art Bell mention the Apple switch to intel on his radio show. In case you don't know who Art Bell is, he does a weekly radio show about UFOs and other strange phenomena. :D
 
law guy said:
That's quite a find. He should have been more careful in posting his representative engagements.
Well, I guess he can defend himself from Apple's Lawyers, he's obviously on first name basis ;)
 
personally as long as they take care of the migration of software to the intel based chips i see it as a good move. ibm makes great processors, but u gotta admit they're slow as christmas gettin them to market. now they've spread themselves even thinner by makin chips for all the video game consoles, so if u think about it apple would be low on their priority list. Intel isn't the reason pc's arent as reliable, it's b/c all pc's are mismatched systems with parts not designed to really work together. that coupled with trusty ole windows makes a crashtacular combo. if Intel makes custom chips for apple then i'd be willing to bet they'd be stellar, and not your garden variety pentium. they would have to be in order to keep us mac-heads loyal, no?
 
iMeowbot said:
By the way, I don't think I've seen this one mentioned here: a lawyer's CV.
http://pview.findlaw.com/view/3340942_1?&channel=CCC

It's not likely gonna be an Intel PowerPC....

Could still be to better emulate x86 for faster Windows emulation!

Could still be to better emulate Windows system calls for faster Windows emulation along with an Intel x86 CPU working alongside a G4/G5 on the motherboard!

But yeah... Seems it's gonna be Intel x86 CPU with QuickTransit to still keep PowerPC software inside... At least for the time being.

Bah, every time I buy/touch something, it goes "splat!". :eek:
 
think secret?

TS sure has been soft on this one....maybe they finaly found the leak at apple...
 
I thought the deleted post with the long scream typed out was every BIT as thoughtful and well-reasoned as some other posts on this topic, AND it captured the subjective emotion side of this much better! :)

(And wide posts no longer force you to scroll--that one post goes wide, but the other posts stay normal. So they're pretty harmless. No reason to call for a ban on the guy just for that. Now, maybe for the font size ;) )

And good catch iMeowbot! I don't think that would have been an easy Google!

Transitive is ray of hope in the darkest of x86 (or Itanium??) Mac scenarios!
 
fenton said:
Is it just me or does anyone else find it strange that apple is announcing this on D-Day?

I'm sure it's just coincidence. :)

After all, I don't think any company would intentionally want to announce something on a day when most people get sentimental about veterans and WWII.
 
Chairman of the board of Transitive former COO of NeXt

Combine this with the lawyers CV and you can be sure its not an intel ppc.
EMULATION
Peter Van Cuylenburg



After more than 25 years in the high-technology industry, Peter is now a non-executive chairman or board member with several technology companies in the United States and the United Kingdom. He is chairman at Elixent Ltd, Anadigm Ltd, ARC and Sealed Media, and is a member of the board of directors at QAD Incorporated and JNI Corporation. Peter worked for 16 years with Texas Instruments, starting in the UK where he held increasingly senior positions in marketing and general management, before heading-up TI’s worldwide computer division in Austin, Texas. In 1989 Peter became CEO of Mercury Communications in London. In 1992 he became President and COO of NeXT Computer. He then joined Xerox as EVP for its systems sector, where he remained until 1996. Peter then moved to Quantum Corporation as President of its Specialty Storage Products Group, before moving into a new phase of his career, working at the board level, with a number of companie
 
intel windows diss

didnt the ceo of intel just recently give a big diss to the window os platform...regarding something about cleaning his daughter's pc for virus every weekk...and said something about ...I would get a mac.....
 
if they go with intel, i hope they'd come out with the new intel dual core pentium-m processor. It's going to have a 667 MHz bus, and should be at 65nm with the maximum heat at 25watts. Right now an overclocked 2.5GHz pentium-m beats every consumer processor out there, even the athlon fx-55. So if they get that to dual core, update the bus, and get faster RAM in there, that'll be one hell of a laptop processor.

The one downside is that it wont be a 64-bit processor.

If they go with AMD, i'd hope they stick with the Opteron, as to keep the dual chips in the powermac. Remember, pentiums and athlons are not meant to be in dual processor machines. Maybe dual core, but not dual processors. That's where xeons and opterons come in handy
 
When?

Um, just wanted to get in and ask something before this thread goes past 100 repl... okay, 200... alright, 1000 max r...forget it. :D :eek: Imagine the thread if it's actually true.

Anyway, question - when is the keynote happening? I read that it starts 10am PST, but aren't you guys up there on DST now, so it's PDT? I'm trying to work out the difference, it's right on 3.30pm Monday here right now (EST, Australia, GMT+10).
 
theROZ said:
didnt the ceo of intel just recently give a big diss to the window os platform...regarding something about cleaning his daughter's pc for virus every weekk...and said something about ...I would get a mac.....

Intel has been spouting off some very pro-Mac rhetoric lately.

And you're right about the daughter story: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/128592/

And he even says in it that people should buy a Mac. :)
 
sluthy said:
Anyway, question - when is the keynote happening? I read that it starts 10am PST, but aren't you guys up there on DST now, so it's PDT? I'm trying to work out the difference, it's right on 3.30pm Monday here right now (EST, Australia, GMT+10).
Yes, daylight time, GMT -0700.
 
Superhob said:
Proof that this is a huge story: I just heard Art Bell mention the Apple switch to intel on his radio show. In case you don't know who Art Bell is, he does a weekly radio show about UFOs and other strange phenomena. :D

lol u too huh? love that xm radio even though i also get him on AM

heres hoping for 6 hours battery life 12 inch ibooks

also not sure if this has been adressed but does this mean that AMD chips will also work or more specificly AMD64 dual core? Will apple have that option?

I wonder how long it will take for someone to find a way to install it on a regular intel box with little or no modification.
 
MONDAY - FRONT PAGE WSJ!!! ITS HAPPENING

THIS IS REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN. FRONT PAGE FRONT PAGE of the WSJ on Monday.

I stated this before, but the WSJ would not put this on their front page without confirmation by Jobs himself...only they would call him a source.

YES!!!! We need a mobile processor, IBM can't deliver, go after Microsoft. Folks its a direct assault to compete, pure and simple. YES!!!

Should I QUOTE, ok here is the article in whole...two parts because of spacing.

====Begin====
Apple Is Poised to Shift
To Intel as Chip Supplier
Move Could Open Door
To More-Powerful Macs;
Cutting Long Ties to IBM
By DON CLARK, NICK WINGFIELD and WILLIAM M. BULKELEY
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 6, 2005; Page A1

Apple Computer Inc. and Intel Corp., long on opposite sides of one of technology's biggest divides, appear finally to be coming together.

Apple, of Cupertino, Calif., has begun briefing some partners about plans to begin shifting its Macintosh computer line next year to Intel chips, according to industry executives and people familiar with the briefings. Apple has said it expects to announce the move today, these people said.

The move would be a major change in strategy for Apple and a high-profile win for Intel, of Santa Clara, Calif. It could be a blow to International Business Machines Corp. and Freescale Semiconductor Inc., suppliers of the PowerPC chips that Apple has long used in its Mac systems. Intel is the primary supplier of chips for personal computers that run on Microsoft Corp.'s Windows, the Mac rival that dominates PC operating systems.

Apple's decision, coming after years of industry speculation about such a deal and behind-the-scenes lobbying by Intel, underscores how longtime allegiances are shifting because of competitive pressures and users' changing preferences. Such a move could help Apple ensure that its Mac systems remain competitive with rivals like Dell Inc., of Round Rock, Texas. It could be a prelude to collaboration with Intel in developing new devices for homes and offices. And it might help Apple reduce its prices, a longstanding disadvantage; an industry executive suggested that the computer maker sought, and won, more-attractive chip prices from Intel than it could get from IBM, of Armonk, N.Y.

The change also makes it at least theoretically possible that some Macintosh systems could more efficiently run Windows and application programs for that operating system, though it isn't clear that Apple intends to encourage that practice.

The shift also could cause disruptions for current Macintosh users. For one thing, software companies may have to adapt programs to run on Intel's so-called x86 chips. Many Macintosh users have recently expressed opposition to such a switch; some equate it with Apple going over to the "the dark side" of Wintel, as the near-duopoly of Intel chips and Windows software is sometimes called.

Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive and co-founder, is expected to explain the shift today during a keynote speech at the company's annual conference for software developers in San Francisco, the industry executives said. Paul Otellini, Intel's CEO, may take part in the presentation, an industry executive said.


Apple recently briefed IBM and other major software partners on its plans, according to people familiar with those briefings. On the other hand, some Apple watchers said that, given Mr. Jobs's mercurial reputation, they won't be sure a change will happen until a formal announcement.

The Wall Street Journal reported1 on May 23 that the companies were in talks that could lead to Apple's adopting Intel microprocessors. The article said the announcement could come as soon as today's conference. CNET Networks Inc.'s News.com on Friday reported that Apple will announce the transition plan today. It reported that Apple will move lower-end computers such as the Mac Mini to Intel chips in mid-2006 and higher-end models such as the Power Mac in mid-2007. Industry executives over the weekend also described a transition that will extend into 2007.

Spokespersons for Apple, Intel, IBM and Freescale, which is based in Austin, Texas, said their companies had no comment.

Apple's partnership with Intel, while a high-profile breakup for Apple and IBM, wouldn't be disastrous for Big Blue. IBM has recently persuaded Microsoft, Sony Corp. and Nintendo Co. to use its chips in their next-generation video-game machines, a business that is expected to dwarf sales for Apple's hardware over the next few years. Microsoft had been using Intel chips and Sony its own chips, while Nintendo was an IBM customer that Big Blue wanted to retain.

It's also unlikely that Apple's shift to Intel chips will trigger a dramatic change in the PC industry's balance of power. Apple remains a niche player, with only 2.3% of new-PC shipments in the first three months of this year, according to International Data Corp. One reason is Apple's meager presence in the huge corporate market, where Windows PCs dominate.

Yet Apple is thriving in ways others in the PC business aren't. Unit sales of Macs increased 43% in the first quarter, outpacing the industry growth rate by nearly four times. One selling point has been the rarity of virus programs that successfully target the Macintosh operating system, an advantage that a change in chips isn't expected to affect. Apple's hugely successful iPod music player has also enabled the company to diversify its business and help attract first-time computer customers.

The Mac business also has been aided by innovative products like the one-piece iMac and Mac mini. A person close to Apple said Intel's chips could enable the company to create powerful new Mac products that are even smaller and thinner. IBM's chips, partly because of the heat they give off, have held back Apple designs for some compact products, this person said.

Apple executives have considered adapting its popular operating software for Intel chips and selling it as a separate product in competition to Windows. That idea has always been rejected out of fear it would hurt Apple's hardware business, and such a move doesn't appear to be part of the company's current plans.

Mr. Jobs has often pointed out technical advantages of the PowerPC chips for some chores. Industry observers also believe that IBM and Freescale have sold their chips at attractive prices, reducing the potential appeal of shifting the Macintosh systems to Intel technology. But Apple hasn't been able to meet some public commitments for increasing the speed of its desktop and laptop lines. In an often-cited performance measure known as clock speed, Macs lag behind PCs.

Intel, the world's largest chip maker in terms of revenue, has had its own stumbles in improving its products. But it has won kudos recently for chips known as Pentium M that draw little power, a big selling point for laptop computers. Egged on by rival Advanced Micro Devices Inc., Intel also has been laying aggressive plans for boosting computing speed by putting two or more electronic brains on the same piece of silicon. It already offers the dual-processor chips for desktop computers, and will have a version for laptops early next year.

Moreover, Intel's dominant position in PC chips has allowed it to offer marketing subsidies to computer makers that are important in the narrow-margin PC business. Apple is likely to qualify for such subsidies and other financial help from Intel.

It couldn't be determined whether Intel has agreed to offer some modifications of its microprocessors for Apple alone or will sell it standard chips, nor is it clear whether Intel would supply other accessory chips for the Macintosh as part of the deal.

Intel has reason to go all out for the endorsement from Apple, Silicon Valley's most successful style setter. Under Mr. Jobs, Apple has delivered cutting-edge hardware designs and delivered a hit music player, the iPod, that has become an icon for fashion and technology. Apple also could be a target for Intel to sell a variety of other chips, including those used for wireless Internet connections.

But the deal with Apple could raise some thorny issues for Intel and other customers and allies in the PC industry, including Dell. Some might consider relying more heavily on AMD chips.

IBM jointly developed the PowerPC chips with Apple and Motorola Inc., which spun off its semiconductor business as Freescale. IBM's products include the G5 chip, which is used in high-end desktop Macintosh systems. Freescale supplies chips for Apple laptops and its Mini system.

For IBM, the Apple loss costs more in terms of prestige than in profits. Apple's orders for PowerPC chips represented about 5% of the capacity of IBM's costly semiconductor manufacturing plant in East Fishkill, N.Y., one industry executive said.
 
====Continued====
Unlike most computer makers, IBM has continued making its own microprocessors rather than farming out production to semiconductor houses. But IBM's own needs aren't sufficient to justify the capital investment in the $3 billion plant, so it has taken on the role of making advanced chips for other companies as well.

IBM announced at the end of last year, that all the plant's capacity is spoken for, primarily by the three makers of videogame consoles. IBM itself uses about one-third of the capacity for its own needs, and it also serves as a chip foundry making specialized semiconductors for telecommunications vendors.

Still, the plant has been a source of continuing difficulty. IBM's technology group, responsible for chip-making, reported a $252 million loss in 2003, the last year for which IBM broke out the results. Some customers who were frustrated by continued problems getting advanced chips from the plant defected to Taiwanese suppliers. IBM now says the problems are behind it, but it has declined to discuss whether the plant is operating profitably.

Apple was a particularly troubled account for IBM. In 2004, Apple publicly complained that delays in getting chips from IBM were to blame for its own sales shortfalls. More recently, an industry executive said, Apple tried to exploit its position as a marquee account to seek better terms than Big Blue could justify financially. Intel must have offered lower prices, the executive said.

Apple's decision is likely to be viewed with mixed emotions by Macintosh users. "For the vitriolic Mac masses, this is going to be perceived as a bit of heresy only because they've long rallied against the evils of Wintel," said Mike Rosenfelt, a venture capitalist and co-founder of Power Computing Corp., a maker of Mac "clone" computers that was acquired by Apple in 1997.

Mike Homer, a Silicon Valley veteran and former Apple executive, believes Apple's decision to shift to Intel chips is driven largely by the growing importance of laptops, which have become an increasingly critical source of growth for Apple and the industry as a whole. Apple has been repeatedly stymied in its attempts to create a laptop based on the G5 microprocessor by IBM, because of the excessive heat of the chip. Intel, on the other hand, has made chips for mobile devices one of its key focuses.
 
Someone posted this over at the Ars forums.

The Apple myLife™ is for your iLife™. With its beautiful 4.3" LCD widescreen, it will show off your best collection from iPhoto™. The best of both worlds is delivered with the ability to play both music from iTunes, the iTunes Music Store, and your own creations from GarageBand™. The widescreen is also perfect for taking the latest Pages™ document or Keynote™ presentation on the road with you. Finally, built-in USB 2 and Bluetooth allow you to sync with iSync to your computer, while built-in Airport Extreme will get you connected to the Internet.

Powered by the Intel® XScaleTM PXA270 Processor at 624MHz
Brilliant 4.3" color TFT VGA display with 800x480 resolution
Integrated Intel® 2700G multimedia accelerator with 16MB video memory
Integrated Airport Extreme™ (802.11g) and BluetoothTM Wireless Technologies
Packed with 64MB SDRAM and 128MB Intel StrataFlash® ROM
Integrated 20GB hard disk drive
VGA-Out Support with optional VGA Presentation Bundle
Removable Primary Battery with optional High Capacity Battery
3.5mm Headphone / Headset Jack for Headsets to support iChat Mobile
USB Cradle including Battery Charging Slot
Sleek aluminum shell

I'm just the messenger! don't shoot!
 
Does this mean that Sonnet and the rest will make an x86 processor upgrade for G4 powermacs? That would be cool.

I am really wanting to put osx on my Thinkpad T42p.
 
MacTruck said:
I disagree, look how high apple's stock rose in May when these same rumors came out. It will jump on Monday through the roof I assure you.


I was just going to point that out. Wall Street will love this move. Apple is making most of its money on iPods and slow G5iMacs. It has plenty of money in the bank and the time is perfect for a transition. Sure it will hurt a little at first, but look what the future holds in two years.

We should see either a 5%-10% jump in stock if Wall street loves the news the news or a 15% drop if the news is not considered good.
 
its the eleventh hour...

LITERALLY!

there is too much circumstantial evidence. the CV of the lawyer.

note this interesting rumor:
https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/02/20050225022048.shtml

"Beyond allowing Tiger to run on x86, perhaps more significantly is the potential to also allow existing Mac OS X applications to be run on the x86 (PC) platform without recompilation."

personally, i'm so looking forward to this. it will mean i can use Wine again, and run apps like Subspace which i so dearly miss on my mac. :)

*j*
 
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