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Intel CEO Pledges Commitment to Security Following Meltdown and Spectre Vulnerabilities

high heaven said:
A car engine is not even comparable with CPU. Totally wrong. Like I said all Intel CPU lineups are base on P6 architecture. are vulnerable because of CPU design since 1995. Why? Because they just ENHANCED it. Tick Tock strategy is not even related to new architecture since Intel enhanced it since 1995. If not, how come all Intel CPUs after 1995 are vulnerable to Meltdown while AMD Ryzen is not? Also, P6 was announced in 1995. The design itself for P6 architecture IS the problem. Fixing it wont be possible unless they make a new architecture. This already proven that other Intel's architectures such as Itanium and Netburst are NOT affected by Meltdown. Do you now see why P6 need to be replaced?
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Yes, it is obvious that CPUs aren't like cars. However, the approach to solving the issue at the hardware level will be similar. They wil not spend money on an entirely new architecture just because of two bugs that can be worked around via hardware or software. Intel will pour money into fixing it on the fly (meaning a hardware revision).

Also, Netburst is a loosing architecture. There is a reason why it was phased out and is only marketed at basic computers. Itanium was a bust as well.
 
jav6454 said:
Yes, it is obvious that CPUs aren't like cars. However, the approach to solving the issue at the hardware level will be similar. They wil not spend money on an entirely new architecture just because of two bugs that can be worked around via hardware or software. Intel will pour money into fixing it on the fly (meaning a hardware revision).

Also, Netburst is a loosing architecture. There is a reason why it was phased out and is only marketed at basic computers. Itanium was a bust as well.
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This is the biggest issue ever happened. Servers wont gonna use Intel CPU anymore because of this.

I mentioned both architectures as an example that Intel needs to create a new architecture to avoid meltdown.
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AndyMacAndMic said:
Read my reply again. I was not done typing yet.
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CPU is a house. Not a door. You dont even realizing this issue at all. Like I said, check Wiki again.
 
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high heaven said:
This is the biggest issue ever happened. Servers wont gonna use Intel CPU anymore because of this.

I mentioned both architectures as an example that Intel needs to create a new architecture to avoid meltdown.
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Doubtful servers won't use them. Google themselves said the fix is not hitting them hard in performance by using a software patch. Don't believe me?

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-amazon-performance-hit-meltdown-spectre-fixes-overblown-2018-1

There, a nice link. Also, given that, I doubt Google or Amazon will stop using Intel CPUs for their data centers.
 
high heaven said:
This is the biggest issue ever happened. Servers wont gonna use Intel CPU anymore because of this.

I mentioned both architectures as an example that Intel needs to create a new architecture to avoid meltdown.
[doublepost=1515791922][/doublepost]

CPU is a house. Not a door. You dont even realizing this issue at all. Like I said, check Wiki again.[/QUOTE]
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You completely misread what I said. In my answer the house was a metaphor for the architecture and the door a metaphor for the vulnerability. Where did I say that the CPU was a door? Please... Don't turn this into a childish word game.
 
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jav6454 said:
Doubtful servers won't use them. Google themselves said the fix is not hitting them hard in performance by using a software patch. Don't believe me?

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-amazon-performance-hit-meltdown-spectre-fixes-overblown-2018-1

There, a nice link. Also, given that, I doubt Google or Amazon will stop using Intel CPUs for their data centers.
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Performance is not the main issue but the security. Have you ever checked what is Meltdown?

This is Meltdown.

Do you even realize why is it so serious? Firmware patch will delay from getting hack. That's all. Without creating a new architecture, that problem will exist forever.

Google, Microsoft, and other servers already using AMD EPYC so far.
 
high heaven said:
Performance is not the main issue but the security. Have you ever checked what is Meltdown?

This is Meltdown.

Do you even realize why is it so serious? Firmware patch will delay from getting hack. That's all. Without creating a new architecture, that problem will exist forever.

Google, Microsoft, and other servers already using AMD EPYC so far.
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I read what Spectre and Meltdown are, no need to throw it in my face that you know. While no software patch for a hardware patch is supposed to be permanent, Intel will not invest in a new architecture. They will rework their current one to fix it moving forward. They'll focus on fixing that area of the hardware and getting it right. Yes, a complete fix will require a new CPU.
 
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I guess your metaphor failed. The vulnerability is not that simple. Yes, let's say architecture is a house but the vulnerability is the inner frame. Like I said, Intel was improving P6 for 22 years. Have you ever watched TV series about fixing and remodeling houses? They tear all parts in order to start working on it. However, they never touch any inner frame unless it has weakness or problem. Intel had been remodeling the house for 22 years without changing the inner frame. But now, the inner frame has a vulnerability. Then what? Will you going to remodel the house again?
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jav6454 said:
I read what Spectre and Meltdown are, no need to throw it in my face that you know. While no software patch for a hardware patch is supposed to be permanent, Intel will not invest in a new architecture. They will rework their current one to fix it moving forward. They'll focus on fixing that area of the hardware and getting it right. Yes, a complete fix will require a new CPU.
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I said the P6 architecture itself is a problem. If you are saying creating a new CPU will fix this, then you are totally wrong. All current CPUs are base on P6 architecture. DO you even know that? Even the newest Xeon W which is available in late 2017 is vulnerable. You said every few years Intel announce new microarchitecture but all of them are vulnerable. ALL of them. At least they made a new microarchitecture every 2 years, right? Then how come all of them have meltdown issue? It's because P6 itself have a major vulnerability.
 
high heaven said:
I guess your metaphor failed. The vulnerability is not that simple. Yes, let's say architecture is a house but the vulnerability is the inner frame. Like I said, Intel was improving P6 for 22 years. Have you ever watched TV series about fixing and remodeling houses? They tear all parts in order to start working on it. However, they never touch any inner frame unless it has weakness or problem. Intel had been remodeling the house for 22 years without changing the inner frame. But now, the inner frame has a vulnerability. Then what? Will you going to remodel the house again?
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I never said it was ideal but even still according to the Wiki link you provided it can be patched (a workaround can be made). It can't be done according to you and it can be done according to me (and to Intel). But let's keep it at that. Take the last word if you wish, but I am done playing.
 
high heaven said:
I said the P6 architecture itself is a problem. If you are saying creating a new CPU will fix this, then you are totally wrong. All current CPUs are base on P6 architecture. DO you even know that? Even the newest Xeon W which is available in late 2017 is vulnerable. You said every few years Intel announce new microarchitecture but all of them are vulnerable. ALL of them. At least they made a new microarchitecture every 2 years, right? Then how come all of them have meltdown issue? It's because P6 itself have a major vulnerability.
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I'll stop arguing with you because you can't see my point and we aren't going anywhere. I reject your point, just to be clear.
 
AndyMacAndMic said:
I never said it was ideal but even still according to the Wiki link you provided it can be patched (a workaround can be made). It can't be done according to you and it can be done according to me (and to Intel). But let's keep it at that. Take the last word if you wish, but I am done playing.
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"Some observers consider that all software solutions will be "workarounds" and the only true solution is to create a new architecture like AMD Ryzen series, Intel Itanium and Netburst architecture." by Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerability)
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jav6454 said:
I'll stop arguing with you because you can't see my point and we aren't going anywhere. I reject your point, just to be clear.
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If you cant explain, then you are trolling after all.
 
high heaven said:
"Some observers consider that all software solutions will be "workarounds" and the only true solution is to create a new architecture like AMD Ryzen series, Intel Itanium and Netburst architecture." by Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerability)
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Yep, word game again. You stated before that it was proven, but the emphasis here is on Some observers consider. Conclusion: You are one of those observers. Other observers (including me and Intel) have another opinion.

I couldn't help answering again. But for now I am really done. I agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
 
high heaven said:
Then I need your explanation. I kept responding yours but now you are ignoring.
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I explained that Intel could simply fix the issue in P6 without a new architecture, yet you continued to spew that its not possible. You continued to ignore that. Hence, since continuance of arguing isn't taking us somewhere, it's best to have our seperate view points.
 
jav6454 said:
I explained that Intel could simply fix the issue in P6 without a new architecture, yet you continued to spew that its not possible. You continued to ignore that. Hence, since continuance of arguing isn't taking us somewhere, it's best to have our seperate view points.
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And I explained against your argument. I told you that all CPU from 1995 are vulnerable because of P6 architecture. How many times do I have to say that? It's about the fact. Then how come Intel CEO and other people tried to hide and sold their stocks for few months before this happens? They already realized how serious it is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMD_Stock/comments/5k31sr/i_bought_canard_pc_there_you_go/
I also doubt that Intel can even fix this issue.
 
jav6454 said:
Doubtful servers won't use them. Google themselves said the fix is not hitting them hard in performance by using a software patch. Don't believe me?

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-amazon-performance-hit-meltdown-spectre-fixes-overblown-2018-1

There, a nice link. Also, given that, I doubt Google or Amazon will stop using Intel CPUs for their data centers.
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Google patch is more of a long term fix so not overnight and even then it depends on workload.

For all the data centers like Epic, CCP Games, etc. they're getting hit significantly and probably regret not going AMD like Microsoft did.

fortnite-server-load.png


Epic is still suffering from fallout since their original announcement posting is still timing out.

https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/forums/news/announcements/132642-epic-services-stability-update

CCP Games
EveImpact.jpg
 
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Val-kyrie said:
As far as I understand it, AMD CPUs are only affected by Spectre V1, but Intel CPUs affected by Spectre V1, Spectre V2 and Meltdown. All the Intel CPUs from 1st generation to 8th generation affected by this, but only old AMD Bulldozer, Piledriver CPUs are affected by Spectre V1, and only in Linux under non-default kernel settings. No Ryzen CPUs are affected by this.

Moreover, Specter V1 can be fixed through software. Specter V2 only affects Intel CPUs and cannot be fixed; it requires a hardware change.

Meltdown affects only Intel CPUs and can be patched in software, but this caused a performance hit. We now know Intel's 8th Gen CPUs experience a ~10% performance hit but older processors like Haswell will experience greater performance decreases.

I found another poster's chart to be helpful:

View attachment 746482

Hothardware has a number of informative articles, including two on the performance hit on 8th Gen Intel CPUs and on Haswell CPUs.
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No, AMD processors are affected by Spectre V1 and Spectre V2. Both variants affect Ryzen.

Information comes straight from AMD's website:
http://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

Charts like the one you posted are, quite frankly useless and misleading.
 
high heaven said:
Near zero risk. Affected but not that serious compare to Intel due to the different architecture.
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At risk is at risk. If Google can find a way to exploit it, others can.

AMD says "near zero" yet their engineering team releases microcode updates for Spectre V2 to mitigate the threat. Not eliminate it.

While we believe that AMD’s processor architectures make it difficult to exploit Variant 2, we continue to work closely with the industry on this threat. We have defined additional steps through a combination of processor microcode updates and OS patches that we will make available to AMD customers and partners to further mitigate the threat.
 
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joema2 said:
That is not correct. AMD CPUs (including Ryzen) are affected by both Specter V1 and V2:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...riants-of-spectre-security-flaw-idUSKBN1F0314

Spectre and/or Meltdown also affects Oracle (formerly Sun) SPARC: https://sp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publ...E2017-5715-vulnerability-Fujitsu-products.pdf

Spectre also affects IBM System Z mainframes, POWER8 and POWER9: https://access.redhat.com/security/vulnerabilities/speculativeexecution

Meltdown and Spectre affect certain ARM CPUs, including those used in the Nintendo Switch console: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ctre_could_potentially_affect_nintendo_switch

Since the main criteria for Spectre vulnerability are (a) speculative execution and (b) branch prediction, it probably affects older RISC CPUs like the DEC Alpha 21264 and MIPS R10000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_21264

All of the above use out-of-order execution, speculative execution and branch prediction. Some CPUs use in-order speculative execution and branch prediction, such as the ARM A8, but are still vulnerable. A long list of ARM CPUs are affected, including A75, A73, A72, A57, A17, A15, A9, A8, R8, and R7: https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update

So CPUs with speculative in-order execution can be affected, not just the more common out-of-order type. While Intel's Itanium is mentioned as immune to Spectre, I'm not certain of that. Despite the VLIW in-order design, it heavily uses speculation and hardware branch prediction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itanium

Itanium is a factor from a planning standpoint because the architecture is totally different from most other CPUs, yet it may still be affected. If so, this indicates how broad Spectre is and how fundamentally the problem must be approached from the standpoint of CPU redesign.
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Thank you for the link to the reuters article. I did not know AMD acknowledged being vulnerable to Spectre V2.


JPack said:
No, AMD processors are affected by Spectre V1 and Spectre V2. Both variants affect Ryzen.

Information comes straight from AMD's website:
http://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

Charts like the one you posted are, quite frankly useless and misleading.
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Charts are neither useless nor misleading. It simply needs to be updated.

What is misleading is all of the smoke and mirrors coming from the tech companies. It is important to know, for example that Spectre V2 cannot be fixed apart from a change in hardware. (Mitigation is not the same as elimination of the security hole.) It is also important to know which CPUs from which companies are affected--something which is not easy to find. It will also be important to know when CPUs are released which have the hardware changes to eliminate that particular attack vector.

I posted because there is a lack of clear, concise and comprehensive information about this issue and I am trying to find the truth. The consumer has a right to know what they are purchasing (if new hardware still has the security flaws) and how their past purchases will be affected by new patches, including both performance and security.

I wonder whether tech sites will have the fortitude to track this issue with regard to future processors from Intel, AMD, and ARM.
 
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