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Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe) Performance
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Yes, the Core Duo (Yonah) is a mobile chip. The Core 2 Duo equivalent is Merom.BlizzardBomb said:But the current Core Duos are "mobile" processors right?
Eidorian said:
What? You said the word Merom but didn't include a link to the guide?
Well anyways, if Apple could get Conroes into iMacs it would be great. A challenge I know (and I still personally think it is more likely to be a Merom iMac) but it would help to be that little bit more competitive. The rest is pretty much predictable, Merom for MBPs and eventually MacBooks and Mac Minis. Woodcrest for Mac Pro and MacServe (Macs in everything right
). iMac's future is a big ?.
Yeah, if they can fit a Conroe into the iMac, more power to Apple. I just hope it doesn't turn it into the blast furnace my iMac G5 was.BlizzardBomb said:What? You said the word Merom but didn't include a link to the guide?
Well anyways, if Apple could get Conroes into iMacs it would be great. A challenge I know (and I still personally think it is more likely to be a Merom iMac) but it would help to be that little bit more competitive. The rest is pretty much predictable, Merom for MBPs and eventually MacBooks and Mac Minis. Woodcrest for Mac Pro and MacServe (Macs in everything right
From what I can tell Merom is just a Conroe that can operate at a lower TDP. They're all just fabricated off the same piece of silicon. (Someone posted an image on this.)
Eidorian said:
I believe only Rev. As and Rev. Bs are blast furnaces, Rev. C iMac G5 was supposedly much quieter thanks to the bulged case.
I know the image you're talking about. Meroms on the inside, Conroes on the outside ring, Celerons furthest out.
If Apple does go with the Core 2 Extreme on the Mac Pro across the line, I think they will retain the liquid cooling technology in the top end and push the chip just beyond its rated specs to 3 GHz. This will cross a major threshold for the Mac Pro line and finally deliver on that "promise" Jobs made a while back. It will also keep the Mac Pro moving forward on the GHz front, similar to the other lines.
Most likely, however, Apple will employ Woodcrest across the entire line of Mac Pros and XServes for economies of scale and volume discounts. Apple's advertising will not promote GHz, obviously, but will still focus on the "3x faster" and post some impressive benchmark figures.
I also believe the Mac Pro will include some additional "new" or landmark technologies, simply because it's been so long in the making and Apple's stock has been taking a beating lately. Perhaps they will include Blu-Ray capability or some other "wow" technology that we hadn't foreseen. I think Apple needs to make a big splash with the Mac Pro.
Also, since Apple has like $7 billion in the bank, can someone tell me why they don't spend a few hundred million dollars on a really powerful Mac ad campaign? I know they're advertising now, but it's not anywhere near what it should be -- it's just token advertising. We need Apple to saturate the media, and do really hard-hitting ads. Now is the time, especially if Microsoft is going to steal any thunder from the iPod this Christmas. Apple has put too many eggs into its iPod basket, and it hasn't focused much on promoting the Mac in a serious, powerful way.
Most likely, however, Apple will employ Woodcrest across the entire line of Mac Pros and XServes for economies of scale and volume discounts. Apple's advertising will not promote GHz, obviously, but will still focus on the "3x faster" and post some impressive benchmark figures.
I also believe the Mac Pro will include some additional "new" or landmark technologies, simply because it's been so long in the making and Apple's stock has been taking a beating lately. Perhaps they will include Blu-Ray capability or some other "wow" technology that we hadn't foreseen. I think Apple needs to make a big splash with the Mac Pro.
Also, since Apple has like $7 billion in the bank, can someone tell me why they don't spend a few hundred million dollars on a really powerful Mac ad campaign? I know they're advertising now, but it's not anywhere near what it should be -- it's just token advertising. We need Apple to saturate the media, and do really hard-hitting ads. Now is the time, especially if Microsoft is going to steal any thunder from the iPod this Christmas. Apple has put too many eggs into its iPod basket, and it hasn't focused much on promoting the Mac in a serious, powerful way.
BlizzardBomb said:What? You said the word Merom but didn't include a link to the guide?
Well anyways, if Apple could get Conroes into iMacs it would be great. A challenge I know (and I still personally think it is more likely to be a Merom iMac) but it would help to be that little bit more competitive. The rest is pretty much predictable, Merom for MBPs and eventually MacBooks and Mac Minis. Woodcrest for Mac Pro and MacServe (Macs in everything right
If you notice. Nowhere on the Apple store does it say "Yonah". It says Core Duo.
So all Apple has to do is say Core 2 Duo. There will be no "Merom" or "Conroe" differentation.
Besides I would rather have a Merom. It requires less power, which makes it run cooler, which makes it more effecient. Heat kills performance.
It is very likely that in the same box (iMac), that the the Merom will beat out the Conroe. Why? Because of heat.
kevin.rivers said:
It's dead easy to notice the difference... Conroe has a 1066MHz FSB. Merom has a 667MHz FSB.
BlizzardBomb said:
Yes, but to the average consumer. These things aren't very important. They will be looking at Ghz, and Apple's "X times faster" looks at the processor. That is what Apple is marketing, not FSB.
How Soon for Merom on MacBook?
So how soon should I expect to see a Merom in a MacBook? "Some months later," or "many months later" than it's appearance on a MacBook Pro? Why not sooner? Just to differentiate the product lines? I thought Merom would replace Yonah in general. I read one report suggesting Merom would be introduced at the same time as the Conroe official introduction near the end of this month.
BTW, Hannibal posted his opinion of Core 2 Duo on Ars, along with his opinion of most other reviewers:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060714-7267.html
So how soon should I expect to see a Merom in a MacBook? "Some months later," or "many months later" than it's appearance on a MacBook Pro? Why not sooner? Just to differentiate the product lines? I thought Merom would replace Yonah in general. I read one report suggesting Merom would be introduced at the same time as the Conroe official introduction near the end of this month.
BTW, Hannibal posted his opinion of Core 2 Duo on Ars, along with his opinion of most other reviewers:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060714-7267.html
Eidorian said:
That's right. Even Woodcrest is part of the same family. They're just designed and engineered for different purposes (mobile, desktop, server).
What's missing to me is the uniform marketing scheme to help sell potential customers. Intel has Centrino Duo currently, presumably Centrino 2 Duo (terrible name, in my opinion) for Merom, Core 2 Duo/Extreme (equally terrible) for Conroe, but I haven't heard anything for Woodcrest. Xeon Duo? Xeon Core 2? I have no idea.
The point is that they all have a lot in common, but it's easy to get confused, and Intel isn't really helping at this point. Where are the marketing people to get it right? At least Apple's scheme is somewhat better--Mac Mini, iMac, Mac Pro--more clearly defined segmentation in my opinion.
Yeah, I had a friend who got a Rev. C iMac G5 20". It was whisper quiet compared to my 17" Rev. B. I don't have any experience with the Rev. C 17" mode though.BlizzardBomb said:
The Rev. C design really changed things around inside. They moved the CPU and power supply toward the top of the case instead of the bottom as in preview models. They might just be able to get a Conroe in there.
Yeah, that's the one.BlizzardBomb said:
Yeah, they average consumer won't notice but BlizzardBomb has the answer.kevin.rivers said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Xeon#Dual-Core_Xeon_.2865_nm_Intel_Core_Microarchitecture.29boncellis said:
Looks like a number game.
kevin.rivers said:
Yup, I know Apple's marketing loves to be ridiculous.
95% of customers* wouldn't notice the difference. I'm one of the 5% who will notice it but its not like I'm buying one, my iMac G5 will keep me happy for another 2+ years. *75% of statistics are made up on the spot
Yeah, considering we get so many posts about "Will this RAM work?". It seems like the populous is clueless about DDR/DDR2 and FSB.BlizzardBomb said:Yup, I know Apple's marketing loves to be ridiculous.
*75% of statistics are made up on the spot
BlizzardBomb said:Yup, I know Apple's marketing loves to be ridiculous.
*75% of statistics are made up on the spot
Very nice.
I have to admit, they will be apart of me thats want to drop a Merom into my iMac CD. I may just do it.
AppleCare or Merom? So many choices!
Eidorian said:
Exactly. Which is why the Ghz myth will stay for a long time. You can't market Memory or FSB or SATA or PCI-X/PCI-E, you won't get anywhere.
Ghz, GB, "X times faster", and you can play games that look very pretty. Those will be what computer marketing will be all about for many years to come.
Yeah, the GHz made sense to me until AMD started pulling this XXXX+ naming. Then I realized it. It worked pretty much until Intel gave up on clock speed is the THING when it comes to computing power.kevin.rivers said:
I didn't buy a new computer between 1999 - 2003 so I had a lot of catching up to do.
1066MHz bus vs. 1333MHz bus
Does a 1333MHz bus matter?
Not only is the Anandtech Article one of the better ones, they simulated a 1333 bus speed with the X6800-EE processer, and came up with an overall inprovement of 2.4%, with DivX 6.1 providing a 7.5% boost!
Also, to quote the article:
"If Apple does indeed use a 1333MHz Woodcrest for its new line of Intel based Macs, running Windows it may be the first time that an Apple system will be faster out of the box than an equivalently configured, non-overclocked PC. There's an interesting marketing angle."
WOOHOO!!!
Does a 1333MHz bus matter?
Not only is the Anandtech Article one of the better ones, they simulated a 1333 bus speed with the X6800-EE processer, and came up with an overall inprovement of 2.4%, with DivX 6.1 providing a 7.5% boost!
Also, to quote the article:
"If Apple does indeed use a 1333MHz Woodcrest for its new line of Intel based Macs, running Windows it may be the first time that an Apple system will be faster out of the box than an equivalently configured, non-overclocked PC. There's an interesting marketing angle."
WOOHOO!!!
I've seen worse with that tag line. Much, much worse.Stridder44 said:To all you G5/PPC fanboys:
BlizzardBomb said:Well anyways, if Apple could get Conroes into iMacs it would be great. A challenge I know (and I still personally think it is more likely to be a Merom iMac) but it would help to be that little bit more competitive. The rest is pretty much predictable, Merom for MBPs and eventually MacBooks and Mac Minis. Woodcrest for Mac Pro and MacServe (Macs in everything right
After looking at a chart of all the Core 2 Duo's, it seems like the most reasonable implementation would be to but the 2MB L2 cache Allendale cores into the iMacs (1.86ghz for the 17" and 2.16ghz for the 20") and the 4MB L2cache Conroe cores into the 3 Mac Pros (2.33ghz @ $1999, 2.66ghz @ $2499, and 2.93ghz @ $2999), with possibly and ultra-high end Dual 3.0ghz Woodcrest offering @ $3499 (I don't think economy of scale effects that likleyhood as Apple will already be purchasing them for their entire X-Serve line).
That's probably how I would roll it out if it were up to me.
Stridder44 said:To all you G5/PPC fanboys:
You're impressed that a chip not even available yet beats a chip from june 2003?