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Intel Core Duo Price Drops in May?

Not sure if this was posted, but Apple does not pay the same price as consumers do for the Core Duo chips. They pay with really big discount, like any other big Intel customer.

Dell is offering 1.83Ghz Core Duo laptops as low as 600-700$, so they can't really do that if they pay like consumers do.

Oded S.
 
odedia said:
Not sure if this was posted, but Apple does not pay the same price as consumers do for the Core Duo chips. They pay with really big discount, like any other big Intel customer.
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Thanks for the refreshing bit of sanity - I've laughed at the posts that assume that Apple got a "special deal" on a large volume of chips - when the other Intel system manufacturers buy in lots many times larger than Apple.
 
Kelmon said:
I was kinda hoping that someone else would address this question. However, as no one else has I'll have a bash at it myself.

The big difference between Yonah and Merom, as best as I can tell, is one of performance and power consumption. Yonah represents a re-design of the older Pentium M processor that worked so well in older notebooks while Merom (and the rest of the Intel Core Microarchitecture processor family) represents an all-new architecture. As you noted, 64-bit and power consumption are the biggest new factors that Merom brings. From my reading on the subject (see AnandTech and Wikipedia) the following are the main benefits:

1. 64-Bit processing to support more than 4GB RAM (great for desktops/servers, perhaps of limited use in a notebook)

2. Lower power consumption by doing things like combining 2 instructions into 1 and therefore saving a clock cycle, and scaling power usage according to processor load

3. Support for faster Front Sided Bus to access main memory (800MHz with Merom; 1.33GHz for the Server/Desktop versions)

Hardware supported virtualisation had been proposed as another selling point for these processors but, as we know from the Parallel Workstation product, this is already supported in Yonah.

While the power consumption required by Merom is lower than Yonah, don't expect to be seeing much in the way of increased battery performance. Most likely the laptop will be set to use its more efficient processing to do more with the same power and therefore outperform an equivalently clocked Yonah by about 20% or more (Quake 4 demonstration showed a 25% performance increase over Yonah in the AnandTech article).

This is most definitely the processor that I have been waiting for but, as the AnandTech article shows, there's another decision to make - do you buy a Merom system with Napa Refresh platform or do you wait for the Santa Rosa platform to be released in 2007 (Q1, I believe)? The Napa Refresh will basically give you what is provided in a MacBook Pro today (i.e. 667MHz FSB, 802.11b/g wireless support, etc.) whereas Santa Rosa will allow the FSB to run at 800MHz and provide 802.11n wireless support. Personally, I'm through waiting so I'll be ordering a Merom-based 17" system as soon as they are announced, but if you don't need one straight away then it may be wise to wait a few months. Of course, just because Intel releases these chips doesn't necessarily means that Apple will release new MacBook Pro's, but we can hope...
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Based on your awesome reply, I am now very thankful I didn't buy the current Macbook Pro because Merom seems to be a significant upgrade to Yonah. No wonder they are droping the price. Looks like I'm sticking with the Thinkpad till December. Hopefully a 17" Macbook Pro will be out with Merom by then.
 
AidenShaw said:
Also, for your point #1, 64-bit is needed for a single process to use more than 4 GiB of RAM - it is not needed to support more than 4 GiB per *system*.

A G4 can support 64 GiB of RAM, as can 32-bit Intel workstation/server CPUs. Apple never exploited this capability, but it was common for 32-bit Intel servers to support 8 GiB, 12 GiB or more. The Intel/AMD x64 chips can support up to 64 GiB even when running in 32-bit mode.
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Really? Huh. You live and learn...
 
Kelmon said:
Really? Huh. You live and learn...
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It helps to read more than Apple advertising copy.... 😉

(Especially since Apple advertising hasn't mentioned "64-bit" since last June 😱 )
 
Excuse the stupid question..... but why buy this round of MacBooks other than the fact "I bought the first wave"? I see a few schools now slashing the G4s to $750.00. Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a G4 for $750 use it for 5 months and dump it on EBAY and then buy a MacBook for Christmas. Or if you have a G4/G3 just hold onto it...

Guess the question is aren't the Duo books like a 3-4 month life expectancy laptop at best? In our hands June-ish timeframe and then "obsolete" in the fall with the MacBook upgraded chip.....

again the stupid question... why buy one now? and not wait 5-6 months...
 
A quick question, what do you all think the odds are of the MacBook (non-pro) being upgraded to merom along with MBP before september (yes, i know its a huge stretch and is probably super unlikely) because i'll be needing a laptop around then to begin the school year...
 
Paulhammer said:
A quick question, what do you all think the odds are of the MacBook (non-pro) being upgraded to merom along with MBP before september (yes, i know its a huge stretch and is probably super unlikely) because i'll be needing a laptop around then to begin the school year...
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I think we might just get the Merom in the Pro in Sept. We would be very lucky if we go the Merom in the non Pro.

But I guess we can only hope.
 
^squirrel^ said:
I think we might just get the Merom in the Pro in Sept. We would be very lucky if we go the Merom in the non Pro.

But I guess we can only hope.
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IMO, you're right. Apple will probably use Merom/Yonah as a Pro/Amateur distinction to help steer people from the Amateur to the Pro.

On the other hand, Merom prices will be about the same as current Yonah prices. So they could switch to Merom without changing prices.

It's possible that we'll see
  • a WWDC announcement that 10.5 will be true 64-bit for the Intel platform
  • Meroms replacing Yonah is all systems
  • An ad campaign "All 64-bit, All ready for Leopard"
  • Prices on eBay for soldered 'books plummet
 
So do you guys think that the MacBook will be able to take a Merom chip when/if they are used in MacBooks, if so I would buy a MacBook right away, but if not then I may wait for a while, hmmmm decisions
 
RollTide said:
So do you guys think that the MacBook will be able to take a Merom chip when/if they are used in MacBooks, if so I would buy a MacBook right away, but if not then I may wait for a while, hmmmm decisions
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If i was you just wait a while. It's only around the corner, my guess is Sept.

It might not be a simple as you think and it would invaildate your warranty.
 
It's more than likely that the processor will be soldered into the computer, making it near impossible to replace...

Here's hoping that everything goes to merom...
 
So I admit I only read what was being said on pages one and two, but my question is, why do you think that apple would lower the prices when half of you end your post with "before I go buy my MBP"? Apple knows you are going to buy them anyway, so why would they lower the price?

Just an observation from a first time visitor to Macrumors...
 
Paulhammer said:
It's more than likely that the processor will be soldered into the computer, making it near impossible to replace...

Here's hoping that everything goes to merom...
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Agreed. I'm sure as soon as someone from Apple saw the posts about users buying their own chips and upgrading they started soldering the chips right quick. 🙁
 
JDOG_ said:
Agreed. I'm sure as soon as someone from Apple saw the posts about users buying their own chips and upgrading they started soldering the chips right quick. 🙁
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It may increase the popularity, since PC guys are switching, they like to upgrade for themselves.
 
I agree with the previous posters, I think the MB will retain the 32 bit duo and the Pro will get the 64 bit version. This will be a good way to keep the lines separate, as they are very similar right now.

Personally I just picked up a cheap MacBook to hold me over until the 64 bit MBP's come out. Hopefully whine free.
 
A theory

The Macbook is priced as if the Core Duo chips have already been discounted. Currently, they are only available from the Apple store where Apple makes a higher profit to compensate for the slighty higher hit it takes on sales this early. Intel is rumored to announce a discount on the Core line on Monday the 28th. Will Apple announce new CPUs on the Mini and iMac on Tuesday?

Waiting to replace my struggling HP laptop (almost dead) and switch BACK to a Mac (Apple IIe, Mac Plus, Mac II, Mac SE, iMac G3 600 user over the years). Too bad I live in Taiwan where I have to wait 2 months for new Macs (even though they are produced by Taiwanese companies just over in China). You'd think I could get one faster.

Cheers
 
if dell, gateway and HP are using merom in their consumer lines, then apple will be forced to do the same. another benefit of being on the same chips as everybody else.
 
I believe MBP and MB are getting merom as soon as its out. Its priced similarly to yonah and theres no reason for apple to allow PC competitors to get the faster machines out there before.

I also believe merom is crucial for future proofing your new mac. Leopard is said to be fully 64-bit compatible and, even if you get your mac with tiger, youll surely want to get leopard once its out. Merom is more likely to support its more advanced features.

Its all on intels court now. if they manage to get merom out august/sept, well se MB and MBPs in early October (very much hopefully). Does anyone have any new info on why this may not be true?
 
manic said:
I believe MBP and MB are getting merom as soon as its out. Its priced similarly to yonah and theres no reason for apple to allow PC competitors to get the faster machines out there before.

I also believe merom is crucial for future proofing your new mac. Leopard is said to be fully 64-bit compatible and, even if you get your mac with tiger, youll surely want to get leopard once its out. Merom is more likely to support its more advanced features.

Its all on intels court now. if they manage to get merom out august/sept, well se MB and MBPs in early October (very much hopefully). Does anyone have any new info on why this may not be true?
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I find that unlikely.
64 bit processors are larger than 32bit processors. They have more transistors to expand the width of the integer registers and the integer processors. They often have more transistors in their memory registers though as Aiden has mentioned some "32 bit" bit processors had larger memory registers. I think the G4 has 40 or 48bit memory registers though they aren't usually available when you're writing C code in a 32bit compiler. If you really wanted to you could build a G4 that addressed a load of memory.
It's far more likely that the Core Duo will become the lower end product and Merom will become the 'pro' laptop chip. Intel is saying ~30% better performance (best case) with merom but the litho will come out a little larger for the 64bit chips.
Merom will cost more to manufacture and it will perform a little better. It should support virtualization, real virtualization, and it will smoke the Core Duo in large integer math (64bit of course).
These features are great if you need them but most people don't. I can't think of a single App that someone will be running on a low range laptop with integrated video that will require a 64bit processor so there's really no reason to move the MacBook line to the Core2 Duo (Merom).
Apple will leave those products with the lower range chip because it's already VERY fast and it'll be cheaper than Merom.

Also, I saw someone mention that Merom and Core 2 are entirely different architectures while Yonah is just a revision of Pentium-M. I don't agree, not from what I've seen. Core2 will be a big update but it's still an incremental improvement. That's why it's still called Core*. Yonah was a big improvement over PentiumM (reworked SSE, dual core, unified L2 cache among other things).. Core2 will be a big change but it's still an incremental step. This isn't like the difference between the Core/PentiumM arch and the NetBurst P4 architecture. Intel dropped the NetBurst arch and decided to base everything off the P-M foundation (which was, in turn, vaguely based off older architectures that date all the way back to PentiumPro as I understand).

ffakr.
 
In reply to post #124 by FFAKR,

Apple shown its ready to live with a small cpu performance gap between the MB and MBP by giving the MBs a Core Duo instead of a "logical" Core Solo.

This article http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20060529A6027.html says that the the 2ghz merom chip will sell for $294, which the same it currently ask for the Core Duo T2500 2.0GHz http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31989 .

This is in line with what the rumour mill has been predicting for the past few weeks. I agree that its surprising theyre pricing it so agressively, but they are.

Apple knows people are thrilled by merom and they must be as well. I see no reason other than shortages for them to refrain from updating the whole notebook line to meroms. Apple likes to stay on the cutting edge of things.

Merom offers significant power improvements thanks for its revamped architecture and mainly to its 4 MB L2 Cache (Yonah only has 2MB).

Im new to macs, so i dont know how OSX benefits from 64bits at present, but im sure it will be all over the place with leopard.
 
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