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Intel forms 'Apple' Group
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zac4mac said:
I'm happy to see I'm not the only one having problems reading his posts. Especially comments like "Apple won't bring 3DS"...? That guy should complain to 3DS for not porting their application to OS X, not the other way around! (How can Sony not have Metroid Prime for the PS2? Are they dumb or what?)
But in order for them to do that, they need apple to seperate consumers from large chunk of cash first. Mutually benefitial goals.revjay said:
dr_lha said:
Wouldn't it kick ass, however, if Xcode could spit out Windows executable files? (think Quicktime and iTunes here... All Apple needs is some kind of installed library on Windows systems to translate OS X calls/functions into Windows calls/functions). That way, each Xcode-compiled Windows program wouldn't need 50MB of independent libraries. Tie those libraries with iTunes and make the program say "You need to have Quicktime and iTunes installed on this system to be able to run this Mac-compiled program" or something. I'm sure Apple's PR department would find a nice way of integrating everything, marketing-wise.
It would then mean someone using Xcode would spit out binaries for OS X/PPC, OS X/x86, Win32/x86. Why would people NOT use Xcode then? It would also mean programs for both platforms all the time (no more Windows-only programs).
dr_lha said:
Not exactly. If you code in Objective c, sure, but if you Code in C++, which most developers do, then you already know all the x86 specific calls and system optimizations whereas you would have known the PC exuivalents. A Game, for instance, would simply neem a minor re-writing of the Basic interface elements instead of an entire engine overhaul. A regular app would only need an interface built in Interface builder. The same Functions and whatnot could make calls to the new interface elements and 95% of the underlying code would remain the same. No matter what you may think, sure the OS is different, but what more does an OS do than ferry data between the user and the processor. . . this will make coding for the mac infinitely easier for people used to the x86 platform.
And to Killemall4130 have you ever heard of a little app called maya??? Possibly the all-around most powerful 3d software out there? Nuf said. If you have nothing constructive to add to the board, then shut it.
i think this is good news, while it may not be a huge surprise to people that how these sorts of deals work, i think it does a lot to put some mac users at ease. i am looking forward to intel based macs, second generation ones that is...
I assume that Apple has some sort Windows port of Carbon to run Quicktime and iTunes on Windows (both those apps are Carbon right, not Cocoa?). Internally they probably can do this.Yvan256 said:
As for Cocoa, well NeXTSTEP released a version of OpenSTEP that ran on top of Windows NT, which meant OpenSTEP programs could be ran on Windows. Its possible that Apple has been maintaining this so that Cocoa (which is basically the evolution of OpenSTEP) apps can be compiled and run on Windows.
Also there is GnuSTEP, which is a free reimplementation of OPENStep, already a bunch of apps can be compiled under Cocoa and GnuSTEP so they can be run on either a Mac or UNIX/X11 solution (see GnuSTEP's Mail application, which looks a lot like the pre-Tiger Mail.app when compiled under Cocoa).
Mainyehc said:[Pardon me guys, for feeding the troll, but here it goes]
Here's some enlightenment... Have you ever tried using an iMac G5? I'm not even talking about the über-fast PowerMac G5 Quad, that is overkill compared with... iBooks
However, I'm sorry, no games for you, boy! Quake III runs acceptably well on my machine (a 20'' iMac G5 1.8GHz w/ 1.25GB of RAM), but yeah, it's not exactly a gaming machine. And this is mainly because game developers don't optimize their titles for the PowerPC/OS X platform (besides the fact that Apple's consumer machines use crappy graphics cards)... And I don't expect things to get sooo much better with the switch to Intel processors, unless, as I mentioned before, the Mac's market share increases dramatically, and Apple starts cranking out killer machines (maybe their pro line will become more affordable, which would probably solve the graphics cards issue).
What I DO know is that Macs will be based on Intel (x86)...... (duh)! Don't you get it? Macs will be able to run Windows alongside with OS X, either by dual-booting, emulation, or virtualization. Which means, even if a specific software title isn't avaliable for OS X, you can always resort to Windows when necessary. Not that I'd want to do that myself, but I sure understand how that can be useful for some people, as it represents the best of both worlds: a bug and virus-free computing experience (OS X), with an extremely wide range of apps - and games, yeah - (Windows, and of course, OS X also, since there are thousands of nice apps avaliable already).
Want some more enlightenment?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/161550/
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2005-11-20/#4756
And of course, the obvious Macrumors Guides, Wikipedia, and... Google!!
Try searching there for PowerPC, Mac OS, x86, Windows, Wintel, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, etc... Learn some history, some hard-facts, then ask the right questions... Which means, don't ask for enlightment, search for it on your own! There are ways of not making a fool of yourself, you know? And by the way, I sure hope you're not a M$ Fanboy™ trying to spread FUD around, as these forums definitely aren't the appropriate place to do so (don't know what FUD means? Add it to that list).
yea thanks for that.
ammm yeah. alot of what you talk about here, i aready know about. look... and im not even a techie, very far from it. but any Q i asked was i thought fairly simple.so i was kinda hopein for a yes or no answer.are something to that effect. but thanks anyway. i still dont feel inlightined
ok ofcourse i could of research else where as im doing at the moment, this place i thought was for Q's. ok it was more of a complaint and i have to say
i still stand by it.
and yes i cant spell for ****, so have a good laugh
In the case where people are using processor specific stuff in their code, yes I agree with you. Most "Applications" won't, but I agree games will (although the biggest issue with games will be porting the graphics engines from DirectX to OpenGL, rather than the underlying code being ported).SPUY767 said:
I think you're oversimplifying porting of an app by saying that an app will just have to have a new interface built with Interface builder. For the majority of windows apps the Interface is pretty much all there is, the underlying code to accomplish the task is fairly simple and portable. Windows interfaces and interfaces built with Interface Builder operate in a fundamentally different way, so recoding the entire interface will be a major job.
I have done a lot of porting of major applications to various architectures. Don't underestimate the difficulty of porting anything to anything, its a major task. Even porting Xcode developed PPC code to Intel will not be without issues if the code is not written well. Poorly written code will be riddled with Endian assumptions that are a nightmare to iron out.
and ahhh wtf ok i got an ibook g4 (piece of ****) i know but, you talk like ive never even heard tell of the powermac g5 and and the rest of it
troll...ahhhh yea whatever it is yea sure im that, what like i care.
lame as hell
o yea, i dont know bout all the apps on the mac???? yea sure. its not like u cud mis any of them, cuz there is not that many. i do animation and graphics. what apples animation software cinema 4d (lame as hell).
dood apple has allways been a big let down in my eyes. and im not here for a battle
thats just the reality, no1 can disagree
troll...ahhhh yea whatever it is yea sure im that, what like i care.
lame as hell
o yea, i dont know bout all the apps on the mac???? yea sure. its not like u cud mis any of them, cuz there is not that many. i do animation and graphics. what apples animation software cinema 4d (lame as hell).
dood apple has allways been a big let down in my eyes. and im not here for a battle
thats just the reality, no1 can disagree
killemall4130 said:yea thanks for that.
ammm yeah. alot of what you talk about here, i aready know about. look... and im not even a techie, very far from it. but any Q i asked was i thought fairly simple.so i was kinda hopein for a yes or no answer.are something to that effect. but thanks anyway. i still dont feel inlightined
ok ofcourse i could of research else where as im doing at the moment, this place i thought was for Q's. ok it was more of a complaint and i have to say
i still stand by it.
and yes i cant spell for s**t, so have a good laugh
Oh, I see... I understand. But you'll also have to understand that your questions were a bit OT, thus, you should try discussing them on one of those topics I've linked to. It's not bad will on my part, I just feel it's my duty as a forum user (even though that's the moderators' role, but anyway
) to try and keep things the most polite and on-topic as possible. So, my short answer could've been something along these lines: "Nope, can't help you, since this specific topic isn't appropriate for answering to your question" And I have to second some comments people made on your writing, hope you won't mind too much
... your questions weren't that easy to answer, partly because they were barely understandable (and I'm not only talking about spelling, but also conceptual incoherence instead, like confusing software and hardware companies), but because, as I said, were off-topic. 
There was once a boy in class called Intel, he had a good friend called Microsoft. One day Microsoft got jaleous over Intel, and they got in a fight when a new girl joined the class, Apple. Apple was the finest looking girl in school. EVERYBODY wanted her, including Intel. Microsoft knew this and tried to make intel jalous by flirting with AMD. One day Intel and Apple decided to get married. They had about 20 children, Rosetta, S3ED, Maya, OpenGL, etc etc.
Enough to make the rest of the family confused. Apple had some relatives from the PowerPC family, and Intel had his from x86.
It was always a mess when the two families met, fights, arguments and discussions over which family is the best. But the saga went on... an iceage came along and everybody but the IntelApple family died. Because only the AppleIntel family could keep warm at night with their thermonuclear heating devices mounted in their heads.
Thank God we have intel to keep us warm at night, and apple to make everyday life go easier. YingYang some might say... But I say, Think different.
Enough to make the rest of the family confused. Apple had some relatives from the PowerPC family, and Intel had his from x86.
It was always a mess when the two families met, fights, arguments and discussions over which family is the best. But the saga went on... an iceage came along and everybody but the IntelApple family died. Because only the AppleIntel family could keep warm at night with their thermonuclear heating devices mounted in their heads.
Thank God we have intel to keep us warm at night, and apple to make everyday life go easier. YingYang some might say... But I say, Think different.
Why is it news when an "analyst" states something blindingly obvious like, "intel hope to provide motherboards". How does one get to be an analyst, sounds like good work to me. At any rate the piece of the pie that intel must really be after is the iPod, that's where apple is the lead player and ships millions of units (in a month!). When there was that talk a couple of months ago about apple being after chips early this would make sense if Jobs could offer them something worth having and that would have to be the ipod. He did something similar with pixar and disney when he obviously used something he had as leverage to achieve his goals, if he wants the switch to work who knows what he's prepared to give up?
I for one would welcome this, we shouldn't lose anything on the iPod front but it would be nice to have chips before PC users, that would give us something else to be smug about (not that mac fans need any help feeling smug).
I for one would welcome this, we shouldn't lose anything on the iPod front but it would be nice to have chips before PC users, that would give us something else to be smug about (not that mac fans need any help feeling smug).
yo i am thankful for any feedback i get, and ok u dont understand what im talking about. im only tryin to learn some things (nothin wrong wit that)
dont call me british... im irish
dont call me british... im irish
0423379 said:
thats another perpect example why i dont like apple ^.think different...and what never give the users what they may want r NEED.
its all about how it looks (what ever happened to does the ****)
dr_lha said:
Ah the capitalization issues. Which is why NeXT eventually just used all caps for everything (as in OPENSTEP). I still miss the days when it was NeXTStep. Mac folks around here get all bent out of shape with ITunes capitalization mistakes -- you ain't seen nothing until the company itself changes capitalization schemes every year.
killemall4130 said:
I know what it feels like to pay a premium of about $150-$300 (and $50, if we're talking about cheaper items like iPods) for Apple gear, since Apple uses a 1:1 currency conversion ratio between US$ and €, and sometimes even adds €100 on top of that... Probably also IVA/VAT (european value-added taxes) related, but heck, it's preety bad in here as it is...
But I CAN'T stress this enough: most people speculate that there'll be price drops once Intel-based Macs come out. And besides, buying a PC right now would be a waste of money, since it wouldn't be able to run OS X, at least without some serious hacking (and DON'T even try claiming that OS X is "lame as hell"). Why not wait for the Intel 'Books or Powermacs instead?
Oh, and by troll, us forum users mean "someone who either writes too much in HaX0r speak, who is a M$ fanboy, who spreads FUD, etc.". In your case the 1337 writing and the fact you deem a lot of stuff as being "lame as hell" without providing some further insight were probably what started this all. Care to explain why you think X-Y-Z app is "lame as hell"? Okay, don't do it, it'd be *off-topic*. If you wish to engage in civilized discussion, open a topic of your own and discuss software
'nuff said
You almost make me feel ashamed to be Irish. I hope others here don't think the (incorrect) stereotype of thick Irishmen is true after reading your literacy. We have a fantastic educational record and you are ruining it in one fell swoop.killemall4130 said:yo i am thankful for any feedback i get, and ok u dont understand what im talking about. im only tryin to learn some things (nothin wrong wit that)
dont call me british... im irish
Damn funny stuff, although you forgot to mention that intel was a jack the lad who also slept around with Dell, HP and numerous others on a regular basis, even after marrying Apple.0423379 said:
Apple remains loyal to intel after the first year or two together, intel continues to sleep around with the same whores who are in bed with AMD also.
dr_lha said:
OOP should prevent this. Problem is, most people don't do OOP properly, they jumble too many things in single classes. The interface is not, by any stretch of the imagination, all there is to an app like excel or word. Word has its own moderately complex windowind toolkit I'm sure, but the bulk of the application is likely quite portable. I'll give you the OpenGL vs DirectX tho. and that a shame considering that OpenGL is superior and well. . . open. I remember the days when most 3d games gave you a choice, but now MS has squeezed the balls of the gaming industry and told them that if they release a game with OpenGL compatibility, then They can't put a Works With Windows sticker on it. That's neither here nor there. I may have oversimplified it and trivialized the port of an app, but in truth, I was never talking about porting an application, I was talking about new applications. And with some rather simple and handy coding practices one could make a windows and mac compatible app relatively painlessly.
dr_lha said:
True, but Apple did release to developers "Yellow Box for Windows" - a pre-Cocoa runtime environment that ran on WinNT/95. It wouldn't take much work to ressurect it.
Alas, such a decision to offer this is more marketing than engineering. Apple could do it, but they won't. I'd like to see Apple offer free XCode for Windows, but the license would require anyone using it to release equivalent MacOS versions at the same time.
steve_hill4 said:Damn funny stuff, although you forgot to mention that intel was a jack the lad who also slept around with Dell, HP and numerous others on a regular basis, even after marrying Apple.
Apple remains loyal to intel after the first year or two together, intel continues to sleep around with the same whores who are in bed with AMD also.
lmao!
But Intel will always love Apple for her looks and easy goingness haha... Dell and HP and the others are just simple ego builders... So that Intel can be the strong man that he is... NOW AMD!! HE IS A ****ER!!! Trying to get in everybodys pants... With them sneaky saussage fingers... It's like the nerd in class who read up on **** loads of sex and then at 30 was the stud of they year but quite not....
Apple and Intel
haha