Intel forms 'Apple' Group

[generik]

I think Piarco is talking about intel integrated on-board graphics, as opposed to a dedicated graphics processor/card...

You speak of this integrated graphics thing as though it is a curse.. Warcraft III runs great on this, with medium resolution and medium detail.

Definitely kicks the crap out of a 5200. Just because it is "dedicated" doesn't make it good

 

[weg]

However, the likelihood that most developers will write Mac versions now that Apple is Using x86 processors is quite high.

I don't think so. The major reason why Windows applications are not ported to the Mac is that the API is different, not that the processor is not the same. The latter problem can be overcome by a cross-compiler, while there are no approaches that solve the former.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

After reading the stuff about Intel Extreme Graphics and the GMA 900 I doubt very much that Apple will bother putting the Intel Intergrated graphics in the comercial product lines.

The Intel Intergrated Graphics looks very much the Windows product because it's all DirectX and Direct Draw hardware optimised, this means unless we get an Apple version of DirectX there probably wont be much benefits from using the hardware.

All though the GMA900 chipset is pretty average as any graphics chipest goes I would be interest if Apple put in Intel High Definition Audio in any Apple product.

I hope Apple goes with ATi X300 and Intel HD Audio paired with a Pentium M, that would be a pretty good start for Apple with the Intel swap.

 

[AidenShaw]

The Intel Intergrated Graphics looks very much the Windows product because it's all DirectX and Direct Draw hardware optimised, this means unless we get an Apple version of DirectX there probably wont be much benefits from using the hardware.

On the other hand, CoreImage requires a DirectX9 compatible graphics card....

 

[Photorun]

Dull buys Chips designed to run windows as best as is possible.

Which, considering the OS, "best" is pretty craptacular.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

On the other hand, CoreImage requires a DirectX9 compatible graphics card....

True but from a professional standpoint OpenGL still has more going for it than DirectX ever will. And really Apple has had more to do with OpenGL than DirectX and if it ain't broke why change?

 

[AidenShaw]

Which, considering the OS, "best" is pretty craptacular.

But good enough to get a Dell system at #5 in the Top500 supercomputers, the top Apple is #15. (VATech has dropped to #20)

 

[MrKahuna]

But not on Windows

But good enough to get a Dell system at #5 in the Top500 supercomputers, the top Apple is #15. (VATech has dropped to #20)

Except that the Dell at #5 runs Linux not Windows. The top ( and only ) Windows computer is at #310. Microsoft has said that they intend to go after the Supercomputer market but they don't have the results to show for their effort yet.

 

[reflex]

I don't think so. The major reason why Windows applications are not ported to the Mac is that the API is different, not that the processor is not the same. The latter problem can be overcome by a cross-compiler, while there are no approaches that solve the former.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the software of the company I work for isn't ported partly because of the fact that we'd have to rewrite all x86 assembly code (quite a large part of our main program).

There are a number of other reasons that are at least as important, but the assembly code conversion at least wouldn't have to be done on an Intel Mac.

 

[reflex]

You speak of this integrated graphics thing as though it is a curse.. Warcraft III runs great on this, with medium resolution and medium detail.

Definitely kicks the crap out of a 5200. Just because it is "dedicated" doesn't make it good

Intel Extreme graphics have a bad name because the first versions were crap. I don't know how they stack up now, but it's probably fairly decent. The 5200 on the other hand is quite possibly the worst dedicated graphics chip of recent times

The real curse with integrated graphics is that they usually take a portion of your system ram and they're usually included with cheap systems that don't have much ram to begin with. And Apple aren't known for providing cheap memory upgrades, so it would be a bad thing if they decided to use integrated graphics with shared memory. So I hope they don't

 

[Avialan]

Intel's WIMAX technology

when apple switches to intel do you think apple will incorporate WIMAX as well as WiFi technology.

Note: WIMAX is like a super wifi with an averange range of 30 MILES as compared to wifi's 150 feet.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

when apple switches to intel do you think apple will incorporate WIMAX as well as WiFi technology.

Note: WIMAX is like a super wifi with an averange range of 30 MILES as compared to wifi's 150 feet.

No doubt they'll put WiFi in, because it's kind of a crutial part of the Centrino chipset.

Putting WiMAX in would be just plain cool But I don't know what I would do with it......

 

[EricNau]

No doubt they'll put WiFi in, because it's kind of a crutial part of the Centrino chipset.

Putting WiMAX in would be just plain cool But I don't know what I would do with it......

Does Apple already have WiFi in it, called "Airport Extreme"?

 

[generik]

Does Apple already have WiFi in it, called "Airport Extreme"?

Wifi yes, WiMax no.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Does Apple already have WiFi in it, called "Airport Extreme"?

True WiFi is 802.11a/b/g which is the same 1Mbps, 11Mbps and 54Mbps as the Apple Airport Extreme counterpart, however the the difference with WiFi it is possible to get some 106Mbps WiFi compatible products out there (I haven't seen too many of them).

The interesting thing is that Intel is really going after the whole 802.11e, 802.16e and 802.20 thing which would make already quaility Apple networking even better.

 

[electronbee]

I don't think an Intel baed Apple will be that much cheaper

Maybe some of you all think Intel makes cheap $$ products but a quick look around reveals that their top of the line dual-core proc's are not cheap at all as well as motherboards that use them that also have all the features we'd all like to see like firewire, usb, audio, etc. If you were to go and either build a system up at any place that sells and allows configuration of a system you'd find out that it's not as cheap as you think. In fact, high-end x86 hardware on either Intel or AMD side is pricey. Just look around at those hardware review sites and see what the price on the Top 5 motherbaords are. On or around $200 for just the mobo. Sometimes more. The fastest dual-core is also up there. So, to assume Intel tech will mean a 1/3 cut in price for a Intel based dualie G5 equiv is not gonna happen. High-end x86 hardware is pricey. Just like anything else.

I think a lot of this misconception come from the everyday exposure to "general-use" computers put out by HP/Compaq, Dell, etc. And, yeah, those things are designed to be cheap and disposable so they use cheap and disposable tech. But, that's why Intel/Windows has such a market share. Just like Honda has a huge market share due to their Civics. Ford in trucks with their F150, etc. It's not the high-end S2000, F350-turbo diesel-quad cab-dualie, or Acura's that gives them the market share. It's the entry level stuff that the majority of the population can afford. That is why they have the markey share. Yeah, this sounds really bleak when you think about it and it all settles in and what, ahem, COULD (and has already happened with that Mac Mini) happen if Apple really wants to have more market share.

Just go to Best Buy and see how many people are willing to fork over a couple of grand on a system. Not many. Most are down with the several hudred dollar system that has a 15" LCD.

However, on the plus side, maybe Intel is excited about Apple in that Apple will be willing to experiement more (like others have posted) with their hardware that a lot of those other companies would like. I can see a dual giga, hidef audio with optical, firewire, usb, dual on board raid, dual-dual proc support, mobo's coming soon for Intel-Apple.

Also, on a side not. Believe it or not, but other companies like SGI have used Intel based hardware before. They had a string of quad Xeon based graphic workstations that unless you cracked it open you'd never had known it was intel based. Looked and felt like any other SGI.

I have a feeling Apple has had this route planned for awhile. Apple may Think Different from time to time but they don't Think Stupid. It would kill them to switch and not have anything to run on the comp.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Maybe some of you all think Intel makes cheap $$ products.....

I totally agree, with the fact that we probably wont see dirt cheap Apples however because both Apple and Intel are premium brands which dictate a higher price for a quality product.

On the other hand the iMac and Mac Mini lines are pretty cheap now compared to other systems like Dell, Compaq, HP and etc, plus you're getting a fanastic OS and great software too boot which the likes of Microsoft just can not compete with or produce.

Either way there are a lot more hidden cost when you buy a Windows System, you need to buy virus scans, anti spam programs, word processing programs and multimedia programs.

I have used both Mac OSX and Windows and all I can say is that a Mac out of the box can an will do more than a Windows out of the box system.

After all you buy a Mac you buy a full system.

 

[EricNau]

After all you buy a Mac you buy a full system.

You still need Microsoft Office

 

[ezekielrage_99]

You still need Microsoft Office

You can always resort to Neo Office or OpenOffice, and yes I am aware that they don't have all the feature that MS Office has. Let's face it that for most home users Appleworks can always be sufficient enough for basic word processing.

I hate MS Office and the only reason I use it is because everyone else it using it, with that said I use iWork as much a I can I find it looks better and the shorcuts are much more friendlier than MS Office.

Down with MS Office.....if we stop buying it will Microsoft make more releases

 

[generik]

I totally agree, with the fact that we probably wont see dirt cheap Apples however because both Apple and Intel are premium brands which dictate a higher price for a quality product.

Eh... just so you know. The AMD64 x2 costs more than an "equivalent" P4D chip, but it does run significantly cooler, utilize way less power, and is faster to boot.

Times has changed, AMD is now the brand that is commanding the premium, although unfortunately I think the reality is that Intel is deliberately uncutting AMD to drive it out of business.

 

[generik]

You can always resort to Neo Office or OpenOffice, and yes I am aware that they don't have all the feature that MS Office has. Let's face it that for most home users Appleworks can always be sufficient enough for basic word processing.

I hate MS Office and the only reason I use it is because everyone else it using it, with that said I use iWork as much a I can I find it looks better and the shorcuts are much more friendlier than MS Office.

Down with MS Office.....if we stop buying it will Microsoft make more releases

Trouble is if you do not use Microsoft Office I doubt you will even have a job to begin with.

Look at the number of job postings on Monster or Seek, notice all of them requiring resumes to be sent in .doc format? Are you willing to risk having your resume writen in a funky word processor not rendering correctly on your prospective employer's version of MS Word?

Considering these guys typically receive and seive through hundreds if not thousands of job applications for a position, if I were in their shoes I definitely know where a resume that "looks funny" will be going.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Eh... just so you know. The AMD64 x2 costs more than an "equivalent" P4D chip, but it does run significantly cooler, utilize way less power, and is faster to boot.

Times has changed, AMD is now the brand that is commanding the premium, although unfortunately I think the reality is that Intel is deliberately uncutting AMD to drive it out of business.

AMD processors run faster and are cooler than most of the Intel equivelant, I'm not going to argue that fact, I have an Athlon64 running SuSE. But the very successful "Intel Inside" marketing campain belongs to Intel and still determines what processor most people try aim for when they are buying or upgrading a computer system.

Intel in the 90's was always kept the image Mercedes of computer processors, "Intel Inside", "MMX" and to a lesser extent SSE (1, 2 and 3) have always been seen as the bench mark for computer, what do you think 3DNOW! was based on? And after all premium usually is related to the general market perception not always price, quaility speed, etc. Aston Martin is a prime example of this, they are not the fastest and don't come with the most features compared with other similar products but they still command a premium brand name because of market preception.

Personally I think it's a good thing that AMD finally got there act together back in '99 and finally brought out a decent competitive CPU (Athlon), a bigger market share for AMD means more competition with Intel which is always a good thing, we get better products. We don't want CPU manufactures to go the way of De Beers, not a good step in this industry.

The reality with most home users and office employees they don't really need the absolute fastest Opteron, Athlon, Pentium, G5, etc to get emails, surf the web, use MS Office or other officey types of things. The only people who need really CPU grunt are Multimedia Professionals and the good old hardcore gamers.

As for the age old do we all need MS Word debate (and this will never end), I usually send most text documents in PDF which I have found that the all the big companies accept. PDF, DOC or RTF formats are pretty much standard formats now, which these standards don't always need MS Office to open'n'edit.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I openned a can of worms with the MS Office comment

 

[EricNau]

You can always resort to Neo Office or OpenOffice, and yes I am aware that they don't have all the feature that MS Office has. Let's face it that for most home users Appleworks can always be sufficient enough for basic word processing.

I hate MS Office and the only reason I use it is because everyone else it using it, with that said I use iWork as much a I can I find it looks better and the shorcuts are much more friendlier than MS Office.

Down with MS Office.....if we stop buying it will Microsoft make more releases

I agree totally. But you really just need Office, not because you like it, but because it's what the rest of the world has. I've tried Open Office, and it just isn't ready yet for mac. Haven't heard of Neo Office, is it free, does it do .doc format?

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I never said you don't need office however for the "average" home user there are cheaper alternatives to buying Microsoft Office. When I was at university buying a copy of Microsoft Office was by far too expensive for me but OpenOffice did everything I needed perfectly and the price was right as well.

Commerically speaking Microsoft Office still holds its number 1 position in any industry and I never disputed that, all I was trying to do is make the point that for the average home user there are plenty of good Microsoft Office alternative out there. Just because something is standard doesn't always mean it's any good, look at Beta Vs VHS, VHS is standard but Beta was the better quality product.

Neo Office and OpenOffice saves into plenty of different formats so it is worth looking at, it can save .DOC, .RTF, .TXT, .PDF, etc and I have had no problems opening these files in Microsoft Office.