Fiveos22 said:
Agree completely. For MS and Adobe there software products have become nothing but free money to them. They do very little as far as upgrades or work and a charging $400-500 for office.
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Intel iMac Sales Sluggish?
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Agree completely. For MS and Adobe there software products have become nothing but free money to them. They do very little as far as upgrades or work and a charging $400-500 for office.
rickvanr said:
Funny. I thought that is EXACTLY what the Intel Imac is using.
The mini is an aging "last-gasp-of-a-dieing-CPU" POS. I'm sorry but try hooking a mini up to a 23" display, set it to its native resolution, then open up about a dozen or so windows. Now hit F10 and watch expose choke. The GPU is pathetic for running Tiger. The hard drive is pathetic for running tiger. The CPU is pathetic for running even the iLife package. In short the Mini really should have been the first thing out of the gate for the Intel transition. The iMac G5's performance was, and is, perfectly fine. Anything with a G4 on the other hand should be tied to a stake and set ablaze. Saying what is in the Mini is good enough is like saying a G3 Mac Mini would be perfectly fine. There is a fine line between hardware that gets the job done and hardware that should be discontinued. The Mac Mini's expiration date was sometime in summer 05. Realistically Apple should have bumped up the CPU to 1.5, the graphics card to something mobile with 64MB of VRAM, and a hard drive to a 5400RPM drive. (I heard rumor that they DID do this. Can anyone confirm?) All of which are hardly top of the line speed demon specs.
I think a period of stagnant sales should be expected. The only computer available is the iMac and I believe the first adopters will be those of PowerBooks and Mac Mini's, neither of which are available.
I'm looking forward to the switch, but it wont happen until some major applications are ported. PhotoShop, DreamWeaver, Illustrator, Ableton Live, and many minor applications. For example: Ableton announced Intel-Mac support soon, but I use a lot of software synthesizers and I'll wait until 90% of those are ported. Many of the companies have announced future support, but not until 3rd quarter of 2006. Then there's teh PhotoShop plug-ins. It's a major pain in the arse to switch. I jumped early from OS 9 to OS X and got bitten in the arse a few times. This time should be easier, but I'll wait to make sure what I need is available.
The only way a new Mac purchase for me will happen is if my Mac dies on me. However, I'd love to buy one now because I could use a more powerful computer. I'm sure there are many others in this boat.
I'm looking forward to the switch, but it wont happen until some major applications are ported. PhotoShop, DreamWeaver, Illustrator, Ableton Live, and many minor applications. For example: Ableton announced Intel-Mac support soon, but I use a lot of software synthesizers and I'll wait until 90% of those are ported. Many of the companies have announced future support, but not until 3rd quarter of 2006. Then there's teh PhotoShop plug-ins. It's a major pain in the arse to switch. I jumped early from OS 9 to OS X and got bitten in the arse a few times. This time should be easier, but I'll wait to make sure what I need is available.
The only way a new Mac purchase for me will happen is if my Mac dies on me. However, I'd love to buy one now because I could use a more powerful computer. I'm sure there are many others in this boat.
SiliconAddict said:
Uhhh you missed his point then. When XP came out many products still only had windows 98 drivers, so the product became worthless.
It is the same today with developers that have not moved to Xcode. The ones who have are out or soon will be and are doing fine, the others like MS and Adobe are stuck. Like the companies who had not provided drivers for 2000 or NT.
hmm let's see,
apple has 2 iMacs on the market that to the average consumer are indenticle, same price, same features. One just happens to have a core-duo chip in it. Now let's walk up to joe blow on the street and ask him what the difference between a intel and a PPC chip are?
Now we have the pros who are stoked about faster chips, but hey, we can't run the software we need to do our jobs. I'm currently in the market for a laptop and I'd love to pick up a new intel machine, but if I can't run photoshop on it and do my job what's the point? I may as well wait untill the pro apps are ready then I'll upgrade rather than buying a machine today and waiting 6 months for software. Because as we know in 6 months something new and better will come along.
Remember, the intel macs weren't suppose to be out till June. I think once the software follows sales will pick up again. But for now it's just kidna pointless to buy.
apple has 2 iMacs on the market that to the average consumer are indenticle, same price, same features. One just happens to have a core-duo chip in it. Now let's walk up to joe blow on the street and ask him what the difference between a intel and a PPC chip are?
Now we have the pros who are stoked about faster chips, but hey, we can't run the software we need to do our jobs. I'm currently in the market for a laptop and I'd love to pick up a new intel machine, but if I can't run photoshop on it and do my job what's the point? I may as well wait untill the pro apps are ready then I'll upgrade rather than buying a machine today and waiting 6 months for software. Because as we know in 6 months something new and better will come along.
Remember, the intel macs weren't suppose to be out till June. I think once the software follows sales will pick up again. But for now it's just kidna pointless to buy.
My 17-inch iMac Core Duo arrives today.
I also hate that I have to buy a computer with a display. I'm hooking mine up to my ACD, and just going to use the iMac's display to display random photographs.
My dream is that there would be a high-end Mac Mini, with Core Duo. However, I have a feeling the Mac Mini won't get Core Duo, so I thought I would instead go this route. If a Mac Mini ever gets Core Duo, I will see the iMac and get it.
I also hate that I have to buy a computer with a display. I'm hooking mine up to my ACD, and just going to use the iMac's display to display random photographs.
My dream is that there would be a high-end Mac Mini, with Core Duo. However, I have a feeling the Mac Mini won't get Core Duo, so I thought I would instead go this route. If a Mac Mini ever gets Core Duo, I will see the iMac and get it.
people saying that adobe and MS should have already had their products converted to UB...
Apple hasn't even done theirs yet!
And to the guy who responded that that with "They're probably just working out the bugs for a smooth release in March," have you used Aperture? It's got as many bugs at 1.0.1 as the adobe beta of lightroom! Maybe more.
Aperture has been out for several months and it's still essentially a Beta. You can't use it reliably, because one day all of your metadata might just be gone.
smooth release...ha.
Apple probably didn't even tell the dev teams for FCP/Motion/Aperture, etc that they were bumping up the x86 release window until november or december...gotta keep those secrets, after all.
it's not like the rumor sites hadn't already predicted half again as many intel products as were released, anyway...
Apple hasn't even done theirs yet!
And to the guy who responded that that with "They're probably just working out the bugs for a smooth release in March," have you used Aperture? It's got as many bugs at 1.0.1 as the adobe beta of lightroom! Maybe more.
Aperture has been out for several months and it's still essentially a Beta. You can't use it reliably, because one day all of your metadata might just be gone.
smooth release...ha.
Apple probably didn't even tell the dev teams for FCP/Motion/Aperture, etc that they were bumping up the x86 release window until november or december...gotta keep those secrets, after all.
it's not like the rumor sites hadn't already predicted half again as many intel products as were released, anyway...
SiliconAddict said:
A) I never said or implied XP supported 98 drivers. That was your inference.
B) My point is that here is Win XP, the OS for the largest installed base of computers on earth, the one that the majority of hardware developers market to. And yet when this monumental version of Windows was released a great many develops still didn't have reliable drivers ready for existing hardware.
Now here is Apple which is much much smaller, and until a few weeks ago the installed base of Duo Core Intel Mac machines was zero. Given that, is it really reasonable to expect that a large number of software and hardware developers would have UB software ready to go? Of course not, and that is why there is Rosetta. Transitions to ANY new OS or chips are rarely easy or transparent. That is my point.
Not too worried
First, I'm betting that Joe Imac has no idea that his computer is "obsolete," especially since it is still doing everything that he expected it to do when he bought it. (As an aside, customers should always expect that better products will come out after they buy whatever it is they buy. There's no reason to get mad at the company because they upgraded a product, unless the company lied to the consumer or misled the consumer about the older version. These new iMacs will be "obsolete," at least according to your definition, within 6 months or so anyway.)
Maybe Apple should release more info about upgrades to their business partners (and do from time to time, such as Jobs bringing in the company to show a universal binary of Mathematica when he announced the move to Intel). But, all along, Microsoft and Adobe said they would not update their current offerings to universal binaries. Their first universal binaries will come in another 6 to 18 months, whether Intel Macs were released in January or July.
Since most apps can run under Rosetta, I don't think most developers are missing out on much. It seems that Apple is getting more positive press for being ahead of time than bad press for rushing the product. If more press leads to more people upgrading and moving to an Intel iMac, I'm sure the companies selling Mac software will appreciate the larger market (and pretty much everyone, even NY Times, CNN and Time mag, except for Thinksecret is reporting that Apple is selling a lot of these new iMacs).
I'm still waiting for the Intel Mac Mini.
Jon'sLightBulbs said:
First, I'm betting that Joe Imac has no idea that his computer is "obsolete," especially since it is still doing everything that he expected it to do when he bought it. (As an aside, customers should always expect that better products will come out after they buy whatever it is they buy. There's no reason to get mad at the company because they upgraded a product, unless the company lied to the consumer or misled the consumer about the older version. These new iMacs will be "obsolete," at least according to your definition, within 6 months or so anyway.)
Maybe Apple should release more info about upgrades to their business partners (and do from time to time, such as Jobs bringing in the company to show a universal binary of Mathematica when he announced the move to Intel). But, all along, Microsoft and Adobe said they would not update their current offerings to universal binaries. Their first universal binaries will come in another 6 to 18 months, whether Intel Macs were released in January or July.
Since most apps can run under Rosetta, I don't think most developers are missing out on much. It seems that Apple is getting more positive press for being ahead of time than bad press for rushing the product. If more press leads to more people upgrading and moving to an Intel iMac, I'm sure the companies selling Mac software will appreciate the larger market (and pretty much everyone, even NY Times, CNN and Time mag, except for Thinksecret is reporting that Apple is selling a lot of these new iMacs).
I'm still waiting for the Intel Mac Mini.
I'm waiting 'til end of March
This is a no-brainer.
Like most people, I'm waiting until at least the end of March for all the initial defects to be worked out before buying a MacBook Pro. These things were rushed out even quicker than the Al PowerBooks were.
My rev A Al PowerBook had to be repaired to fix the screens spots problem (remember that one?). I don't want to be without my new baby again.
Once I have the new 'book I'll be spending a fortune on all the updated Intel apps. Apple and others just need to be patient. The check's in the mail!
This is a no-brainer.
Like most people, I'm waiting until at least the end of March for all the initial defects to be worked out before buying a MacBook Pro. These things were rushed out even quicker than the Al PowerBooks were.
My rev A Al PowerBook had to be repaired to fix the screens spots problem (remember that one?). I don't want to be without my new baby again.
Once I have the new 'book I'll be spending a fortune on all the updated Intel apps. Apple and others just need to be patient. The check's in the mail!
Yvan256 said:
This is very unlikely. You cannot expect Apple to produce a machine that is on par with their iMacs for less than half of the price.
When the Mac mini is released, I would expect to see a "Core Single" processor in it. Same goes for the iBooks.
SiliconAddict said:
SiliconAddict, i will have to disagree with you. Saying that major companies should have somehow predicted that apple would release new products at MWSF just cause we expect apple to do so is not sound business logic. Think about it, suppose apple had released some new video ipod or some exotic product but no new computer hardware and a company (adobe) had already transitioned their products for this event even though apple told them sometime in june, who would pay them for lost economic opportunity?.. apple?. Why would a company transition their products months ahead of an announced deadline just cause mac geeks anticipate apple doing something before said deadline? Wow, maybe adobe should call you and listen to you instead of what apple tells them. No, apple chose this path. It's not like they were unaware that major vendors had not yet ported their applications. Also 7 months is not a lot of time. I am a developer for a large application that would probably take 2 years to transition to a new platform and i assume adobe software is much larger than the one i work for. I like how non-software developers (or those not familiar with large code bases) can always state how long it should take to port application X to Y platform. Silicon Addict, have you any real world experience with porting a large application to a new environment?. Just curious.
Epicurus said:
I have two friends looking to get Mac laptops. I have told them both to hold off for a little bit and see if Apple brings out Intel iBooks (MacBook Expresses?). Neither friend is in a big hurry (both already have computers) so it seems like a decent trade-off to wait a bit. For their uses, it would also be nice if they could use a second monitor as an extended screen (a feature now on iMacs, so not too much of a stretch to see it go to iBooks?). If they get to the point of needing a computer before any upgrades, they can just go to the Apple store and pick up a current iBook.
otter-boy said:
Well said people complaining about Apple releasing the iMac and MacBook Pro early are idiots. Can you imagine the uproar if the only thing apple came out with at MWSF was updates to iLife and iWork.
People need to calm down and realize that if you are running pro applications the intel Macs are not for you yet. Just because consumers get them early doesn't change the original thought of June for pros.
This whole thing reminds me of the parrable of the day labourers and the penny. People complaining because others got something positive they didn't expect, while they are still getting exactly what was originally promised!
johnnybluejeans said:
What people are saying though is they are willing to pay more then the current price points of the Mac Mini to get a Core Duo, better graphics, and a faster/larger hard-drive. I would imagine a Mini with the same specs as the 17" iMac no screen for $1099. That is the machine I would buy.
Yvan256 said:
My Adium X is a Universal binary.
I'm going to get the Intel Mac Mini as well. However I suspect it'll be an integrated graphics jobbie.
SiliconAddict said:
Agreed. People that don't follow the Mac scene and wanted a Mac got one around the holiday season. The rest are waiting to see what's gonna happen next. My GF has a PowerBook G4 and is contemplating selling it along with her PC laptop and putting the cash on a MacBook pro if it can either run Windows as Dual Boot or run Virtual PC at full speed and full compatibility (the current VPC is not only unusably-slow, it's also impossible to install MS .net studio on it for some reason).
Caution to new products, maybe?
I don't know that buying a $2,000 plus computer directly after its first transition from PPC to Intel is necessarily a bad decision, yet it's one I wouldn't take myself. Although I just bought a 15" PPC Powerbook in September '05, I'm very happy with what I have, and don't worry too much about it becoming obsolete in the near future. Besides, I have a dual 2.0 gHz G5 PowerMac at home that is just fine for what I do. I probably will keep these two systems for a good 5 years before thinking about changing. Perhaps by then, Bluray/HD-DVD burners will be standard OEM components in machines being sold, not to mention blank media for them being as cheap as 50- or 100-stack blank DVDs that are available now. Sorry, but $2+ per blank dual-layer DVD is not at the sweetspot yet to make an investment going to this technology, especially with Bluray/HD- DVDs becoming the standard soon.
I don't know that buying a $2,000 plus computer directly after its first transition from PPC to Intel is necessarily a bad decision, yet it's one I wouldn't take myself. Although I just bought a 15" PPC Powerbook in September '05, I'm very happy with what I have, and don't worry too much about it becoming obsolete in the near future. Besides, I have a dual 2.0 gHz G5 PowerMac at home that is just fine for what I do. I probably will keep these two systems for a good 5 years before thinking about changing. Perhaps by then, Bluray/HD-DVD burners will be standard OEM components in machines being sold, not to mention blank media for them being as cheap as 50- or 100-stack blank DVDs that are available now. Sorry, but $2+ per blank dual-layer DVD is not at the sweetspot yet to make an investment going to this technology, especially with Bluray/HD- DVDs becoming the standard soon.
Waiting for iBook
Personally I'm waiting for the new iBook and Windows Vista. I really need a dual boot computer because of my course of studies at school (MIS & CS; almost 100% Windows programming) and I just can't afford $2000 for a laptop.
Personally I'm waiting for the new iBook and Windows Vista. I really need a dual boot computer because of my course of studies at school (MIS & CS; almost 100% Windows programming) and I just can't afford $2000 for a laptop.
All I know is I just bought my first Mac yesterday, the 20" Intel iMac. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow. I held off until the Intel switch because I wanted it to be a bit future-proof. Soon my long Windows nightmare will be over. 
Personally, I think if sales are down it's just because of it being the beginning of the year. After spending a wad of cash during the holidays, most people aren't ready to spend more money.
Personally, I think if sales are down it's just because of it being the beginning of the year. After spending a wad of cash during the holidays, most people aren't ready to spend more money.
SiliconAddict said:
Simply shows that you never wrote a single line of Code. 7 months to port a huge software from carbon (c based) to cocoa (objective-c/Java) is not simple. over that there are lots of very minute things like threading issues, libraries, even application control flow, retraining of the people, quality testing and what not?. More over they have to replan (especially for the future) as to what else apple might pull out of their ass the next corner. More over intel will go full 64 bit in 6 months + half of tiger (BSD part) is 64 bit, the UI is 32 bit!
I love this quote:
"While Apple markets the Intel iMac and MacBook Pro as two-times and four-times faster than their PowerPC predecessors, respectively, the company continues to sell those PowerPC counterparts for the same price as the new Intel systems."
Seriously, a good price drop in PowerPC systems would have helped get those out of the way.
"While Apple markets the Intel iMac and MacBook Pro as two-times and four-times faster than their PowerPC predecessors, respectively, the company continues to sell those PowerPC counterparts for the same price as the new Intel systems."
Seriously, a good price drop in PowerPC systems would have helped get those out of the way.
Jon'sLightBulbs said:
I don't agree at all.
Joe Imac doesn't understand what Rosetta is. He doesn't want pro apps and doesn't understand why some applications just won't run.
Joe Imac wants the g5 iMac... not the newer intel one.
The intel machines are for early adopters and people who understand the challenges facing the new machines.... these are the same people who knew to wait for this release.