Intel Launches New Broadwell Core M Processors, Likely Destined for Apple's Ultra-Slim Notebook

[meme1255]

1) Well Apple has always had an issue with this. However there are many many applications where a 4GB of RAMmin a Mini would be more than enough. Not for desktop workstation usage but for dedicated uses like a media center PC. Many uses in the corporate world will never use more tha 4GB of RAM either.

2) That is actually an interesting question. In my case I beleive the reason we didn't get a quad core is due to Apple running out of room with their power budget. People forget that each TB port needs to allocate 10 watts out of the power budget. Combine that with USB demands and phones Intel power ratings and I believe Apple simply didn't have a viable quad core alternative. So a few watts saved here and there might make a difference.

3) The other thing here is that Apple could have made a massive volume deal for LPDDR3 RAM which made putting this more expensive solution into a Mini feasible.

As for power saved I have no idea what that figure might be, however if you are one to leave a machine powered up all the time every little bit helps.

4) In Haswell the in module RAM can be used that way. In Knights Landing, the next Xeon Phi, they are integrating very fast Memory Cube technology right into the processor module. This is producing an extremely fast memory subsystem which in the initial hardware will be 16 GB of RAM. It probably will take awhile but this tech will work its way into workstation and possibly laptops.

The RAM subsystem is actiually the next area of focus to better performance out of computer systems as RAM has become far too slow to keep modern processors feed. The first step here is the move to DDR 4 which is just starting to happen.

5) Believe me this I know. I carry around a big external with my laptop and it is a pain. I also agree that the cloud is a joke. Well at least for bulk storage it is.


6) Well some people waste a lot of CPU cycles. This rumored laptop might not be a bad machine for them. For those of use that want to move forward it is a big question mark right now. The initial performance figures, power and clock values do not inspire one.



+) As a side note Broadwell does enhance and add a few instructions which ought to lead to more efficiency and performance once software is updated to leverage those instructions. I don't want my posts to sound like I'm totally negative with respect to Broadwell. It is rather a case that this chip might disappoint in a fanless design. Put a 17 watt Broadwell in a current MBA and we might have one impressive upgrade.

1) Because it forces user to upgrade earlier... Simple.
2) USB 3.0 allows to take more power (I think 900mA / 5V) from host, that's true - With 4 ports, it's nearly 4 Watts more. Thunderbolt replaces FireWire with similar power capabilities / requirements. Negated.
3) Well, if they did, they didn't decrease RAM-upgrade-margin by a single cent, IMHO.
4) Yes, that's really interesting.. Hopefully, it won't be delayed...
5) Nothing more to say
6) Yes... But these people don't need to replace computer so often... And they probably won't, unless they need better battery so much they can't wait.
+) You mean TSX instructions which are disable in currently available series of Broadwell CPU's due a bug?

I agree that Broadwell MBAs will probably be nice

 

[Gutwrench]

The new chips, which we understand Apple has indeed been testing with the upcoming 12-inch MacBook Air

I apologize in advance, but I'm surprised at the thought of a 12 inch MB Air. Doesn't Apple currently offer it in 11 and 13 inch? Why 12? If true, what sizes do you think they'll deliver other than 12?

 

[Count Blah]

I noticed that they get more than double the clock speeds from "turbo boost", which is much more of a boost compared to i5/i7. So they're efficient because they essentially underclock automatically to very low speeds when not in "turbo" mode? I honestly know very little about CPUs.

Doubling 1 to 2 is not as impressive as going from 100 to 150. No matter how you "market" it.

And those turbo speed are for single core performance. Do anything multi-core, and you are running at base speeds.


BTW --- Apple ALWAYS has OS X running on all different types of CPUs. The move from G4/G5 to intel did not happen "all of a sudden". Apple had OS X running on intel for years by that point.

 

[Mattsasa]

Running Open GL on the Hd 5300 at 900p is around 57 fps
Open GL on the Iris Pro at 900p is around 52 fps

I don't understand what you mean?
running open GL

and source?

 

[Keirasplace]

Transition to ARM would cause that virtualization would be much slower (you would need emulate x86 instructions) ... Wine wouldn't work too... It's still too early to make transition to ARM, IMHO. Gain isn't worth the lost. And for Apple, unfortunately ... No x86 Windows on Mac.

You dont need to virtualize anything if the apps exist for your new platform. As I said, Apple has a lot of money to throw at helping develloppers move their apps from platform to platform. It seems that's one of their speciality.

To make develloppers move you :

1) Make it easy to port
2) Reduce the skillset required to devellop on the new platform
3) Make porting to new architecture part of the existing workflow
4) Make it pay quickly
5) Incentivize the porting
6) Make the ported apps, perform as well or better
etc...

Apple has a lot of money to throw at this problem.

In the enterprise, the number of native apps that work on Windows only and demand high performance (couldn't work in an emulator) and couldn't be ported (or are too old to be ported), are small. Every based on Java on browsers as front end are already cross platform. For others, Apple just needs to be Apple to interoperate with them, not replace them. IBM and Apple are both specialists in this integration.

In general, with mobile apps often being very different in their UI and use case than desktop apps, you have to rewrite a good deal of them anyway.

How many killer apps are only available on a windows platform and tightly depend on native code integration, Less and less. This was not the case 10 years ago. And as I said, with many apps, even Adobe's App suite, using more standard libraries in its backend, creating multi-platform software is becoming less and less expensive (as it should be). There is an incentive long term for companies to not tightly tie their code to hardware anymore. The gains coming from that from a commercial, devellopment and performance point of view are ever diminishing. We can thank the rise of both Android and IOS for that.

 

[gnasher729]

2) You'd have to recompile all these libraries. And professional software often has optimizations written in assembly...

Haven't seen any assembler code in professional software for ages.

 

[Mattsasa]

If these Core M processors are available now, couldn't apple make the notebook available by the end of the year?

 

[Serban]

a retina for macbook air is a must now..because for most users that using macbook air for reading and emails and web it will make it the best laptop customer satisfaction 100%

 

[Avenged110]

That is only somewhat important as in the end it is what the chip can sustain in a fanless environment that will make or break this chip and the machine it is built into. Will the performance at 1.2 GHZ be comparable to the current Airs at their base clock rate?

It is a valid question because we really don't want to see performance regressions as the Airs are already minimalist performance platforms. This is especially the case considering continuing increases in performance requirements to run Mac OS smoothly. Of course we have to wait and see what Apple delivers, I'm just not comfortable with the high expectations seen in this forum.

That's fair, and I second the concerns about it being underpowered. I would hate to see apple making it *slightly* thinner for a hit in performance and they should be embarrassed to ever put out a product like that. That being said, didn't the baseline Ivy Bridge Airs ship with 1.3 GHz base freq.? I would imagine that the architectural improvements would at least allow it to match the performance of that. Now that's not saying much in terms of performance regression but those Airs at least ran well enough.

 

[SmOgER]

The benchmark scores of this new ultra low power CPU are on pair with Sandy Bridge i5 from 2011 MBA.

That's not bad, considering it's fanless, but probably still not good enough for next-gen MBA, unless Apple will launch it as a whole new product while keeping production of current MBAs.

EDIT: Just did some calculations and apparently CPU in 2014 MBA is about 25% faster than in 2011 MBA or Broadwell Core M.
It's not THAT much, but it's still notable.

 

[sirozha]

The new 12" MacBook Air is the same thing as the new 12" iPad Air. This is going to be a hybrid device with the keyboard that snaps in to make it into a laptop and snaps out to make it into a tablet. It's going to run both iOS and OS X as VMs with direct access to the same kernel. Apps will have an option to use the same database but present two different skins based on whether the device is in the tablet mode or in the laptop mode.

This is my prediction for this new product.

 

[Aloft085]

Introducing the 2015 MacBook Air. It has a processor speed from a decade ago, the same amount of RAM as a decade ago, the same amount of storage as a decade ago and finally to round things up it has the same price as a decade ago.

And introducing the "new" Apple logo, rainbow-colored.

We might as well buy old PowerBooks at this point.

This is why they shouldn't publish processor speeds. Average Joes think that if one processor is 2 GHz and another is 2.5 GHz, that the 2.5 GHz processor is going to be faster. That is completely and utterly wrong. Clock speeds are only a useful indicator of performance within the same processor family. Processors with different architecture will often have dramatically different results at the same clock speed.

For an analogy, think of a vehicle. You have a sedan going 70 mph and a bus going 50 mph. The sedan seems like the 'faster' transportation, right? But the bus is carrying 50 people, while the sedan is carrying two. So in terms of man-miles completed per hour, the bus is getting far more done.

Here's an article backing up what I'm saying: http://www.howtogeek.com/177790/why-you-cant-use-cpu-clock-speed-to-compare-computer-performance/

Now please, I don't want to see any more nonsense on Macrumors comparing processors based on clock speed alone. A benchmark is the only way to know which processor is fastest. They should start publishing benchmark scores to the public instead of clock speeds, if you ask me.

 

[mi7chy]

Initial Broadwell Core M performance is disappointing compared to Haswell i5 even with active cooling.

 

[Count Blah]

The days of using the same hardware with minimal upgrades are slipping away. Look at Apple's latest moves with the Mini which I expect will be fully imitated by PC vendors across the spectrum. Unless you are buying a $3000+ professional rig! expect to treat anything less as appliances that you will throw out and buy a new one within 2-3 years at most.

And that is going to chase people away from macs. It's pushing me out the door, and I am the "Mac guy" who advises several other households in my family. These are folks who i had advised getting the better CPU/GPU at purchase, and have upgraded ALL of their RAM and several of their HDs.

If apple is going disposable, then this old model no longer works, and I will be advising the extended family to go back to PCs. What made apple machines great(build quality and legth of usable lifespan) for them is over.

The last machine I advised a family member to get was a quad core 2012 Mac mini. They don't game at all, so that machine should last for six years with upgraded ram and SSD.

I hope the Apple fanbois who are cheering Apple's recent moves realize that the resale value of your new macs are going to go into the crapper. Extending the life of macs made for reliable resale value.

 

[smoledman]

And that is going to chase people away from macs. It's pushing me out the door, and I am the "Mac guy" who advises several other households in my family. These are folks who i had advised getting the better CPU/GPU at purchase, and have upgraded ALL of their RAM and several of their HDs.

If apple is going disposable, then this old model no longer works, and I will be advising the extended family to go back to PCs. What made apple machines great(build quality and legth of usable lifespan) for them is over.

The last machine I advised a family member to get was a quad core 2012 Mac mini. They don't game at all, so that machine should last for six years with upgraded ram and SSD.

I hope the Apple fanbois who are cheering Apple's recent moves realize that the resale value of your new macs are going to go into the crapper. Extending the life of macs made for reliable resale value.

You wanna bet that Mac sales are going down the next 4 quarters or up?

 

[LFMNX]

Few Macbook Airs in the Apple Store

Was in the apple store today and there are few Macbook airs for display. Only 2 11" and 2 13"

 

[rekhyt]

I apologize in advance, but I'm surprised at the thought of a 12 inch MB Air. Doesn't Apple currently offer it in 11 and 13 inch? Why 12? If true, what sizes do you think they'll deliver other than 12?

You gain the portability of the 11" (which I love – the thinness, the lack of heft, the weight), but the productivity of the 13" (screen real estate. Not so sure about power though).

 

[Eduardo Forneck]

800 MHz?? 1.1 GHz base frequency? i think Intel is having some trouble reducing the energy use, i thought using 14 nm process was enough for reducing energy use, in theory, 14 nm uses 2,47 times less energy than 22 nm at the same performance ( (22ˆ2)/14ˆ2 ), but Intel is having to reduce frequency too.

 

[trip1ex]

wait. let me get this straight. new intel processors and they are going to be in Apple laptops?!??!?!?!?

amazing.

 

[Count Blah]

You wanna bet that Mac sales are going down the next 4 quarters or up?

Lots of 1st time buyers with poor experiences. Yippee!! I know my family will be advised to avoid. And good luck selling those soldered 4gig of RAM boat anchors known as the new mini.

Sadly, when Mac folks were getting ridiculed by windows folks in the past, it wasn't warranted, because Apple buyers knew better. Now that apple markets their machines to know-nothings, the ridicule should be loud and strong. But now those who at one time used to know better, are cheering are we are being marched off the cliff.

 

[smoledman]

wait. let me get this straight. new intel processors and they are going to be in Apple laptops?!??!?!?!?

amazing.

Not only that, but they'll be in Windows laptops and hybrids too!

 

[djgamble]

Seems like Intel is really struggling to compete with ARM in this category. I can't imagine Intel will be used for much longer in the MBA. With the performance of the A8X it would seem logical for Apple to move to ARM in the next couple years.

Can't really see why Apple would create a sluggish version of OS X that isn't binary compatible with the x86 version... and develop it exclusively for the MacBook air.

I'd prefer an i7 with Iris graphics any day of the week!!

 

[smoledman]

Can't really see why Apple would create a sluggish version of OS X that isn't binary compatible with the x86 version... and develop it exclusively for the MacBook air.

I'd prefer an i7 with Iris graphics any day of the week!!

Yeah I simply can't see Apple ever replacing the Intel Core series with Ax chips in Macs. Not ever.

 

[djgamble]

Lots of 1st time buyers with poor experiences. Yippee!! I know my family will be advised to avoid. And good luck selling those soldered 4gig of RAM boat anchors known as the new mini.

Sadly, when Mac folks were getting ridiculed by windows folks in the past, it wasn't warranted, because Apple buyers knew better. Now that apple markets their machines to know-nothings, the ridicule should be loud and strong. But now those who at one time used to know better, are cheering are we are being marched off the cliff.

There have always been Apple users who know better and Apple users who know nothing. Same with other brands.

iPhone's a classic example now. Android fans often think they know better and aren't being conned because they're getting better stats on paper for the same dollars (or less).

I'm not the type who just throws money at every new Apple product. I run into fools who buy 2 Androids a year and bag out the iPhone for all the wrong reasons, to the point where their reasons fon't even make sense. You get others who know their gear and have made a conscious decision.

Same with iPhones. Lining up to get my iPhone 6, at least 50% of the people in line were just after the latest Apple gear as a status symbol. To many the only new feature they were aware of was the larger screen and nothing else mattered. I don't think I'm one of these guys...

 

[Mattsasa]

Was in the apple store today and there are few Macbook airs for display. Only 2 11" and 2 13"

I am very guilty of wishful thinking. And I am very strongly hoping the core m macbook air will be out before the end of they year.

but I don't think that few macbook airs on display means very much unfortunately.

how big was the apple store? like how many macbook pros were on display