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Intel Looking to Mirror M1's Manufacturing Process for 'Meteor Lake' CPUs
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This comment is hilarious. Alder Lake (performance wise mind you) already trounce M1. Meteor Lake is their way to become more power efficient & I am no fan of Intel either.
They are only behind Milan X in datacenter otherwise they are leading in every category performance-wise.
Not necessarily a sign that Intel 4 ( old "7hm") doesn't work. Intel only has a limited number of ASML EUV fab scan machines to produce Intel 4. If the projected volume need is too high then Intel can't make more Intel 4 wafers even if they wanted to because can't buy the machines to make the process.
"... In April, ASML, the world's largest maker of lithography scanners, said it could only fulfill 60% of orders for the chipmaking tools this year. The company's chief executive warned that it couldn't keep up with demand from the companies that need its tools. ..."
Intel CEO Thinks Chip Shortage Will Stretch to 2024
Tools to make chips are hard to come by.
Years ago Intel slowed their EUV fab scannner buying schedule to buy more DUV scanners to do higher volumes of 14nm , 10nm , and what is now called Intel 7 (intermediate follow on to 10nm).
They really should have done both but that would have hit the stock price. They choose short term higher stock price. And also tweeter-tottering on getting out of fab business.
At this point are spending lots more on capital equipment improvements but there is only one supplier in the world to buy from and don't stock $100M machines idle in a warehouse for 'maybe someone will buy' sales. When folks order years in advance then they get made. Can't show up last minute and want to walk away with 4-5 machines in a couple of months.
Intel ordering up TSMC N5 tiles in 2023, or so, is more indicative that they are looking for volume availability solution at manageable costs than a fab production problem. If looking for a better density why not N3 or N4P/N4 ?
Intel has reportedly already lined up TSMC N3 orders for the Gen 14 (Meteor Lake) GPU tile/chiplet. So if the CPU core only tile/chiplet is N5 ... there is an objective there that N3 does not necessarily "solve".
N5 is going to save time (easier to port) , costs, volume, etc. issue(s).
will get some..... just not across entire product lines. Narrowly scoped chips with higher margins will leapfrog in different years from other narrowly scoped chis.
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Apple is definitely fanning the flames under Intel’s rear end and hopefully that benefits future Intel customers.
Competition is good. I'm glad Intel is feeling the heat from AMD and Apple.
As Tony Stark might say, “Most countries, 5-10 years away, [Intel] 20.”
The lifestyle company teaching the tech. company how to build CPUs
MR had to change to clickbait pro-Apple title. Original title is...
"Intel mulls adopting TSMC 5nm process in new Meteor Lake chips"
Alder Lake is good but many like myself held off buying since it's still on old 10nm node so they've finally stopped being stubborn and doing what the market wants.
"Intel mulls adopting TSMC 5nm process in new Meteor Lake chips"
Alder Lake is good but many like myself held off buying since it's still on old 10nm node so they've finally stopped being stubborn and doing what the market wants.
The article suggests Intel's orders will be large enough that TSMC might consider expanding its 5nm capacity by years end...
Yeah. Nah.
Probably.
You don't just add capacity at 5nm - the lead time is measured in months, probably years at this point in time - AMSL is 100% fully booked for their equipment and they're the only folks who can provide what's needed at these bleeding process nodes.
Yeah. Nah.
Probably.
You don't just add capacity at 5nm - the lead time is measured in months, probably years at this point in time - AMSL is 100% fully booked for their equipment and they're the only folks who can provide what's needed at these bleeding process nodes.
Pragmatically add 5nm capacity when large N5 customers rolls over to N4, N4P, and even more so N3 and by 2023 N3E.
TSMC taking N5 to the "more than just small handful of bleeding edge customers" to more
mainstream set of customers in 2023 was probably part of their plan all along 3-4 years ago. In two years it would have settled into being a mature node.
What was is different is that probably was coupled with opening up more discounts and charging more affordable pricing due to it being a mature node . That part probably got tossed out the window. So what TSMC needs is more customers with "deep pockets" (e.g. relatively expensive SoCs/packages to sell ). Intel fits that bill.
You seem to be confused about which parties are involved in this article. Microsoft isn't manufacturing processors here, this is about Intel. Second, Intel isn't copying Apple's manufacturing process because Apple doesn't have a manufacturing process, that would be TSMC. Intel just like AMD, Apple, Nvidia, Qualcomm and Samsung is simply considering using that process. I'm honestly not sure why people are rooting for Intel fail because they are the last US foundry capable of competing at the cutting edge level. If TSMC becomes the only company in the world that can produce high end processors and SOCs then that would make them kingmakers able to decide who succeededs and who is shut out. If in the near future Apple has a disagreement with TSMC where else can they turn to produce future M series SOCs?
Another potential "mix up" that Digitimes could be walking into is Intel's terminology. The tile on the Gen 14 SoC that is tasks with doing basic I/O , some metadata processing, etc. is tagged "SoC"
So in previous rumors of the GPU tile being assigned to TSMC N3 ( as opposed to N5) also had the "SoC" Tile as a N4/N5.
"... Intel 4 for compute tile, TSMC N5 or N4 for SoC-LP (I/O) tile, and TSMC N3 for the GPU tile. ...
... Ponte Vecchio data center accelerator to the market. The GPU features TSMC N7 node for Xe-Link and TSMC N5 for its compute tile."
videocardz.com
Someone gets leak that Intel SoC tile has a TSMC N5 order. If hey presume that SoC tile must have CPU core ( mimicking Apple's M1 right? ) then the "telephone game" turns this into Intel CPU core is N5.
Intel has a Xe core compute tile on N5 anyway. So doing a modified tile targeted at mainstream iGPU on N5 would not be that hard anyway. ( already have N5 orders anyway at smaller scale. ). the Ponte Vecchio is also a "Compute Tile" as the Gen 14 Meteor Lake has a different "Compute Tile".
So in previous rumors of the GPU tile being assigned to TSMC N3 ( as opposed to N5) also had the "SoC" Tile as a N4/N5.
"... Intel 4 for compute tile, TSMC N5 or N4 for SoC-LP (I/O) tile, and TSMC N3 for the GPU tile. ...
... Ponte Vecchio data center accelerator to the market. The GPU features TSMC N7 node for Xe-Link and TSMC N5 for its compute tile."
Intel Meteor Lake GPU tile rumored to utilize TSMC 3nm process technology - VideoCardz.com
Intel allegedly orders TSMC to build Meteor Lake GPU tiles According to Commercial Times, who are citing their own industry sources, Intel 14th Gen Core CPU series codenamed “Meteor Lake” is to use TSMC 3nm process technology for the graphics tile. Intel Meteor Lake will be a consumer processor...
videocardz.com
Someone gets leak that Intel SoC tile has a TSMC N5 order. If hey presume that SoC tile must have CPU core ( mimicking Apple's M1 right? ) then the "telephone game" turns this into Intel CPU core is N5.
Intel has a Xe core compute tile on N5 anyway. So doing a modified tile targeted at mainstream iGPU on N5 would not be that hard anyway. ( already have N5 orders anyway at smaller scale. ). the Ponte Vecchio is also a "Compute Tile" as the Gen 14 Meteor Lake has a different "Compute Tile".
Competition good, blah blah… I’m sure Intel will catch the M1 in efficiency eventually, but I’m not confident in their stated delivery date. Their gpu roadmap has slipped as well and Alder Lake hasn’t turned out to be the efficient architecture it was promised.
Samsung using TSMC for a major product? As opposed to "eating their own dogfood" ?
With Nvidia and Qualcomm switching over some relatively high volume product lines to TSMC , Samsung likely has demand holes to fill with their own products on their foundry lines. Except for some corner case , high niche process they are not a good candidate for a large outsourcing to their competitor.
Reportedly Samsung is having problems with yield on N4/N3 dies that include modems, but "give up" and go to TSMC probably isn't an option. N3 id their "gate all around" which wouldn't be surprising is going to have teething problems.
There is only one top end EUV fab scanner company. If the next, next, next generator machine gets so expensive that only one fab can afford to buy them then still in situation where down to one and only one vendor. The bleeding edge fab business has been collapsing steadily over the last 22 years. It has all the appearances of being a game of musical chairs.
Samsung has a fab plant in the USA ( Austin). Their bleeding edge ones are in South Korea. TSMC is suppose to put a second tief fab in the USA ( why in "no water" AZ is a bit of a head scratcher as an enlightened long term plan, but whatever ... it is an easy "monkey see , monkey do" alongside Intel's established plant there. ).
I'm just tired of all the "Lake" names. Seriously, get a new naming convention.
So true and demonstrates how much Intel were asleep at the wheel.
If Intel is outsourcing production of the newest CPUs to TSM while they take the time to hammer out and fix their fabrication issues it could be a good business move. Don't fall any further behind the competition and get your fans ready for the next gen so you keep the advantage of vertical integration.
Well a digitized did accurately predict iPhone 12 having 4 models 2x 6.1” screens and 1 with 5.4” screen; mini
Apple supply chain gearing up for 'iPhone 12' production in July
Industry sources claim that Apple's flagship iPhone production schedule is starting up soon, with production of the "iPhone 12" starting a bit later than normal in July.
appleinsider.com
Screeenshot from AppleInsider link attached.
Still though this is Lazy-Tel lol.
Reeee-Spec!
Intel hasn’t had real competition though; only gaming from AMD. AMD doesn’t have the volumes to fully challenge Intel in the desktop and laptop space but they’ve been making big strides from mid-2021 and now have several 7-series lower than Intel power higher performing laptop chips that are respectable against Intel.
Intel has always had the corporate space with Dell (Intel only), Lenovo, and HP making their biggest sales in corporate laptop/desktop PC sales. If those partners offered similar offerings across the board with AMD and same or better performance .. it would be less than 3yrs before we really see Intel hurting badly. Y?
AMD has lower power consumption chips and significantly lower pricing per chip not just per batch. I plan to see major upset in corporates sales by 2024/2025 if Intel doesn’t deliver the good good.
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TSMC will basically own the GPU manufacturing market as not only is Nvidia's Ada going to go from Samsung to TSMC, Intel's discrete GPUs are also made by TSMC. Of course all of AMD is also on TSMC. Not to mention Apple. It's really sad that we got here and wholly dependent on one supplier for anything cutting edge.
ASML could win the game of musical chairs by starting their own bleeding edge fab in the EU. They seem to be the sole source of the key ingredient.
I think it’ll be a bit longer than that until there is no Intel support in Mac OS, because you can still go and purchase an Intel Mac right now. No doubt they’ll go ARM only as soon as they can possibly get away with it, but I don’t think they could discontinue it within a year of still selling Intel macs.
Exactly, this is my biggest take away here. It’s a fairly dire situation when the industry is basically reliant on one manufacturer for cutting edge CPUs. Investment and progress in developing and diversifying manufacturing capacity is really critical. I hope Intel can sort themselves out.
I remember the good ole "new Intel Chip" days from 2.2 gHz to 2.4 to then 2.3 gHz, when in actuality the ONLY ***** thing that increased in speed was the SSD that Apple put inside... such a waste of 10 years!!
And then you PC guys, oh man, all you/they did was increase the NVIDIA Speed aka FPS, Intel is a ***** SHAM!
Laters...