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Intel Macs Won't Get Updates After macOS Tahoe

dburkhanaev said:
But the MS installer is really easy to bypass because of the way MS created the installation software.
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Yes, I know that. I have an Ivy Bridge system next to my retro Macs that dual boots XP with 11 in BIOS/MBR mode (so wildly further away from the supported list). Have had lots of other unsupported 11 systems of various vintages.

But at the end of the day, I'm happy enough to take the risk of running 11 unsupported on my home systems, but I would never suggest that for a family member, work, or anybody else. It's like OCLP. Would you give your mother-in-law or your boss a Mac running OCLP?
 
Frixo Cool said:
After all, I would conclude that it is not a big deal if this is the last macOS for Intel, because it means at least three more years of full official support for the latest Intel Macs, BUT the point where Apple should make a positive move and clearly announce it is that it will provide security support for Intel Macs for longer than that, but also updates for key Apple applications so that these computers are not excluded from the entire Apple ecosystem. That's 50 million users on Intel Macs. This cannot and should not be ignored, both from an environmental and business perspective, as well as user trust in Apple.
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Sorry to play devil's advocate a bit, but how is this any different than what Apple does every year?

e.g. I have sitting on my desk my mom's old late-2013 MacBook Pro 15.4" that landed here after its SSD died. She got it in late 2013, the last OS it got was Big Sur (2020). Two years of security updates until fall 2023. By 2024 or so, it's excluded from 'the entire Apple ecosystem'. Also can't run, say, newest version of MS Office. By this summer, it's going to be dropped from Chrome. Once OCLPed, machine still runs great, it's a little low on RAM for my liking, but meh. Unless the battery starts swelling again, I suspect that with a supported OS and supported software, this machine would remain functional for many people/uses for another 4-5 years.

How is what they're doing with, say, the 2019 MacBook Pro any different? Okay, it gets one less year of OS support (seven total versions vs eight), but that's about it.

It's not like they've abruptly cut off 'all Intel Macs', either. They've been cutting them off as each approach roughly the 'normal' timeline or maybe one less year than before.
 
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Even, if Apple won't support Intel Macs anymore, you can still install Windows, or any of the Linux, BSD, Unix etc. based x86/x86-64 compatible other Operating Systems on them.

You cannot do the same on the Silicon Apple Macs.
It will we interesting to see, how long the lifespan of the Macs with Apple Silicon will be, compared to Intel Macs, when there wont be any OS updates in the future.

Last month I installed Linux Mint XFCE on and Intel Mac mini from 2007. Of course the RAM was upgraded to the max (2 + 1 GB, in any case it only recognize 3 GB) and I replaced the internal defective HDD with an cheap SATA SSD (the Mac mini has slow SATA port, maybe 1st gen?). The biggest bottleneck is the Intel integrated graphics chip GMA950.

Let's say it is "usable" for light work.
 
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Im am still using a MacBook Pro from 2008 with Linux for testing. Not suitable as daily runner anymore, but more than enough for this task.
 
The thing that chaps my ass about Apple is that their public environmental stances don’t exactly align with their planned obsolescence strategy. They can post as many fancy PDF files in that portal they have online, but this has been an ongoing gripe with them for well over a decade now.

While they are clearly not as fast as the new AS macs there are a ton of Intel MacBooks that are perfectly useable for specific tasks.

It’s still too early to tell, but the openness of the Intel era will be sorely missed by someone like me and apparently a few others in here as well. MacBooks as old as 2008 can still perform light tasks well and there is no reason why current macs with AS can’t do the same thing with Linux or another OS in the future. If Apple locks things down like the iPhone and iPad I might very well move to another solution for my computing needs.
 
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opeter said:
Even, if Apple won't support Intel Macs anymore, you can still install Windows, or any of the Linux, BSD, Unix etc. based x86/x86-64 compatible other Operating Systems on them.

You cannot do the same on the Silicon Apple Macs.
It will we interesting to see, how long the lifespan of the Macs with Apple Silicon will be, compared to Intel Macs, when there wont be any OS updates in the future.

Last month I installed Linux Mint XFCE on and Intel Mac mini from 2007. Of course the RAM was upgraded to the max (2 + 1 GB, in any case it only recognize 3 GB) and I replaced the internal defective HDD with an cheap SATA SSD (the Mac mini has slow SATA port, maybe 1st gen?). The biggest bottleneck is the Intel integrated graphics chip GMA950.

Let's say it is "usable" for light work.
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I'm currently shopping 2019 iMac 27's on "fire sale" locally, specifically to put Windows on one for my 87 year old uncle.

The big turnoff is how many have those fusion drives, which I want no part of for him.
 
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Miss the smaller Intel MacBooks 😢
But the MBA M3 is both lighter and faster, so I’m not complaining too much, just a bit for the sake of it.
I wouldn’t say no to newer Ive designed Mac’s though - we all know it won’t happen though.
 
Lioness~ said:
Miss the smaller Intel MacBooks 😢
But the MBA M3 is both lighter and faster, so I’m not complaining too much, just a bit for the sake of it.
I wouldn’t say no to newer Ive designed Mac’s though - we all know it won’t happen though.
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I don't miss Ive's design(s), to be honest.
 
opeter said:
Even, if Apple won't support Intel Macs anymore, you can still install Windows, or any of the Linux, BSD, Unix etc. based x86/x86-64 compatible other Operating Systems on them.

You cannot do the same on the Silicon Apple Macs.
It will we interesting to see, how long the lifespan of the Macs with Apple Silicon will be, compared to Intel Macs, when there wont be any OS updates in the future.

Last month I installed Linux Mint XFCE on and Intel Mac mini from 2007. Of course the RAM was upgraded to the max (2 + 1 GB, in any case it only recognize 3 GB) and I replaced the internal defective HDD with an cheap SATA SSD (the Mac mini has slow SATA port, maybe 1st gen?). The biggest bottleneck is the Intel integrated graphics chip GMA950.

Let's say it is "usable" for light work.
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Well the T2 Intel Macs do present some complications. You can Install Windows 10 using Bootcamp but I don't know if Windows 11 will also install. I don't think any dervative of BSD has T2 support (except MacOS itself of course).

A few Linux distros do provide support which is detailed here: https://t2linux.org

Note that they recommend dual booting with MacOS to provide a backup and access to firmware updates. This is important for the T2 which runs its own operating system, bridgeOS.
 
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ADGrant said:
Well the T2 Intel Macs to present some complications. You can Install Windows 10 using Bootcamp but I don't know if Windows 11 will also install. I don't think any dervative of BSD has T2 support (except MacOS itself of course).

A few Linux distros do provide support which is detailed here: https://t2linux.org

Note that they recommend dual booting with MacOS to provide a backup and access to firmware updates. This is important for the T2 which runs its own operating system, bridgeOS.
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Thanks for the information. Oh, I totally forgot, that some of the later (2017/2018+) Intel Macs have T2 chip inside. This can be a really big problem.
 
opeter said:
Thanks for the information. Oh, I totally forgot, that some of the later (2017/2018+) Intel Macs have T2 chip inside. This can be a really big problem.
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I think most of the 2018+ Macs have T2 co-processors. A notable exception is the 2019 iMac.
 
ADGrant said:
I think most of the 2018+ Macs have T2 co-processors. A notable exception is the 2019 iMac.
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I'm typing this on a T2 2020 iMac so I suppose I could find out more definitely, but what subsystems does the T2 include? Audio is one, so is the camera, anything else? I guess the 'SSD' too...
 
VivienM said:
I'm typing this on a T2 2020 iMac so I suppose I could find out more definitely, but what subsystems does the T2 include? Audio is one, so is the camera, anything else? I guess the 'SSD' too...
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The SSD controller would probably be the most important subsystem, but yes audio and camera are included and of course it also includes the secure enclave for TouchID and other security features. It also includes video codecs for H264 and H265 (very useful for video editing) and thermal management.

In a T2 Mac, the T2 boots first and then it allows MacOS or a third party OS to boot provided it passes any security checks that have been configured.
 
phuklok1 said:
i don't know why people think apple will now focus so much better on mac os without the intel stuff. you do realize that supporting intel machines involves just changing a compiler option for the source code, right? LOL. It's not different code. also, we're not talking about making all platform specific AI features available - they're not currently doing that anyway even with supported older devices. We're just talking about the basic OS functions. I mean you can port UNIX to basically any platform, and guess what mac os is under the GUI interface? it takes almost no developer time to continue supporting the platform. it's just forcing people to replace hardware that is functional for the bottom line.
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There are (most likely) some intel specific frameworks that are still maintained that are now depreciated and removing those frameworks from later versions of macOS makes sense to Apple. Each person and business makes decisions based on what is important to them and there is nothing wrong with those decisions. Even Linux does not support 8088 based computers.
 
I'm glad when I needed to buy a new Mac laptop over four years ago, rather than my initial plan to go with a later-gen Intel MacBook Pro and wait a bit to get an Apple Silicon Mac Mini (which hasn't happened yet), I decided to take the jump and get an M1 MacBook Air (with 8-core graphics and 16 GB of RAM), still going strong to this day. And then hopefully once I get another I.T. job, THEN I can buy an Apple Silicon-equipped Mac Mini (I'm eyeing the M4 Pro model with at least 48 GB of RAM, or whatever is successor is).
 
Dr Nobody Important said:
There are (most likely) some intel specific frameworks that are still maintained that are now depreciated and removing those frameworks from later versions of macOS makes sense to Apple. Each person and business makes decisions based on what is important to them and there is nothing wrong with those decisions. Even Linux does not support 8088 based computers.
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highly doubtful, particularly for the majority of OS functionality. the machines in question are highly useable except for perhaps video editing. this is a way to push users to new hardware. these are still advanced 64 bit systems, we are not talking about 8088 machines. the problem for even Microsoft is for most people (non power users) there is no compelling reason to upgrade even 10 year old systems.
 
ADGrant said:
Well the T2 Intel Macs do present some complications. You can Install Windows 10 using Bootcamp but I don't know if Windows 11 will also install. I don't think any dervative of BSD has T2 support (except MacOS itself of course).

A few Linux distros do provide support which is detailed here: https://t2linux.org

Note that they recommend dual booting with MacOS to provide a backup and access to firmware updates. This is important for the T2 which runs its own operating system, bridgeOS.
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Over at this post I wrote about how I followed a Youtube video to install Windows 11 Pro on my 2020 Intel MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar and T2 chip, and then how I brute-forced my way into installing Apple Boot Camp drivers for Windows 11:

 
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phuklok1 said:
highly doubtful, particularly for the majority of OS functionality. the machines in question are highly useable except for perhaps video editing. this is a way to push users to new hardware. these are still advanced 64 bit systems, we are not talking about 8088 machines. the problem for even Microsoft is for most people (non power users) there is no compelling reason to upgrade even 10 year old systems.
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Security updates are a prime important reason to upgrade to a newer machine. My policy has been when the Apple Care Warranty has expired, then time to trade in the computer for a new machine. I tell students that I value my time therefore I do not run Linux as my primary operating system. Same goes for attempting to keep an unsupported machine running. There is a cost associated with keeping older systems updated and many people do not appreciate the work that would go into keeping these systems current.
 
phuklok1 said:
highly doubtful, particularly for the majority of OS functionality. the machines in question are highly useable except for perhaps video editing. this is a way to push users to new hardware. these are still advanced 64 bit systems, we are not talking about 8088 machines. the problem for even Microsoft is for most people (non power users) there is no compelling reason to upgrade even 10 year old systems.
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I use my iMac Pro for 4k simple video editing and it's fine for that purpose.

I could run it on my Mac Studio but it's nice working on the Apple panel.
 
Dr Nobody Important said:
Security updates are a prime important reason to upgrade to a newer machine. My policy has been when the Apple Care Warranty has expired, then time to trade in the computer for a new machine. I tell students that I value my time therefore I do not run Linux as my primary operating system. Same goes for attempting to keep an unsupported machine running. There is a cost associated with keeping older systems updated and many people do not appreciate the work that would go into keeping these systems current.
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I agree with this philosophy.

I've played around with OCLP and telling a non-technical user to use it where the technical skills are unknown has me flinching.

What's coincidental is that Windows 10 is in a similar spot this year. Support ends in October but Microsoft is going to announce a plan to get one more year of support for a) $30, b) 1000 Microsoft Rewards points, or c) agreeing to use One-Drive to backup your desktop. I upgraded my desktop from Windows 10 to Windows 11 last year. It was a royal pain in the neck to do because I had to update the BIOS and turn on some settings and Asus isn't all that great about support or support instructions.

I'll look at the above post on getting W11 on later Intel Macs.
 
pshufd said:
I agree with this philosophy.

I've played around with OCLP and telling a non-technical user to use it where the technical skills are unknown has me flinching.

What's coincidental is that Windows 10 is in a similar spot this year. Support ends in October but Microsoft is going to announce a plan to get one more year of support for a) $30, b) 1000 Microsoft Rewards points, or c) agreeing to use One-Drive to backup your desktop. I upgraded my desktop from Windows 10 to Windows 11 last year. It was a royal pain in the neck to do because I had to update the BIOS and turn on some settings and Asus isn't all that great about support or support instructions.

I'll look at the above post on getting W11 on later Intel Macs.
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I upgraded my last Intel Mac mini with the M1 Mac mini by trading in the computer. Most of everything that I do on a daily basis has been architecture independent, therefore it was not an issue to trade-in and still get work accomplished. When I upgraded to the Macintosh, I PtoVed my Windows desktop into VMware Fusion and keep it until I upgraded to the M1 Mac mini. I am running Windows 11 and Windows Server 2025 in a virtual machine mainly to ensure that I have the appropriate instructions for the Windows environment up-to-date. I stopped building my computers when I. noticed that it was cheaper to just purchase a Macintosh.
 
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