Seasought said:Can't wait all of the panic-induced "should I sell my current macbook/powerbook/whatever for the new Macs?" threads.
man, check out the posts following yours.
you are dead on
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Intel Merom (64-bit Mobile Processor) Due in September?
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man, check out the posts following yours.
you are dead on
WHo wants a 64-bit notebook?
Why does anyone want a 64-bit notebook? With Intel X86 architecture the only thing "64-bit" adds is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM. Unless you actually install and use 8GB or 16GB in the notebook the 64-bit stuff is usless. Not much changes betwen the 32 and 64 bit CPUs except the size of pointers. They all do 80-bit floating point math and 32 bit integers.
The way to buy a computer is always to wait until the last possable minute and then buy whatever is available at your price point at that time. There is _always_ something better comming out in a few months so wait as long as you can but not a day longer
Why does anyone want a 64-bit notebook? With Intel X86 architecture the only thing "64-bit" adds is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM. Unless you actually install and use 8GB or 16GB in the notebook the 64-bit stuff is usless. Not much changes betwen the 32 and 64 bit CPUs except the size of pointers. They all do 80-bit floating point math and 32 bit integers.
The way to buy a computer is always to wait until the last possable minute and then buy whatever is available at your price point at that time. There is _always_ something better comming out in a few months so wait as long as you can but not a day longer
Merom is going to be sweet and everything, but I want more details on Conroe. I can't wait to see how it handles Apple's Pro apps compared to running on the G5 processor.
Yonah was stop gap
You can talk about all you need is a 32-Bit and that's understandable, however in the future apps will start to be written/optimized for 64-Bit. It is already the present as the G5 has been out for some years now. Some pro's do use their portables to do high-end stuff and if not will start to do so. It just gives another added dimension to computing. Not everyone will need this power of course, but many Pros will.
The Core Duo is a major stop gap chip and in the technology world things change quickly, however the CD's life is going to be amazingly short. If it was a 64-Bit chip then Intel would just be building on it more and rolling out more cores for 2-3 years. The CD most likely will not see any of that once Merom comes out as that's the chip that originally was wanted by Apple to be first in their lines. Intel is classic for rolling out stop gap chips. Pentium D's..etc..
So yeah some people will be bothered by this and some will say something new always comes out, however with Merom I think some will feel that they got the technology that is truly going to receive the development and attention. Or the one that was meant to be. So yeah they will add 8-Cores to Merom and better than the 2-Core Merom, but at least they still have a Merom.
Conroe is one that I'm really curious about and wanting to see how it will best the G5.
You can talk about all you need is a 32-Bit and that's understandable, however in the future apps will start to be written/optimized for 64-Bit. It is already the present as the G5 has been out for some years now. Some pro's do use their portables to do high-end stuff and if not will start to do so. It just gives another added dimension to computing. Not everyone will need this power of course, but many Pros will.
The Core Duo is a major stop gap chip and in the technology world things change quickly, however the CD's life is going to be amazingly short. If it was a 64-Bit chip then Intel would just be building on it more and rolling out more cores for 2-3 years. The CD most likely will not see any of that once Merom comes out as that's the chip that originally was wanted by Apple to be first in their lines. Intel is classic for rolling out stop gap chips. Pentium D's..etc..
So yeah some people will be bothered by this and some will say something new always comes out, however with Merom I think some will feel that they got the technology that is truly going to receive the development and attention. Or the one that was meant to be. So yeah they will add 8-Cores to Merom and better than the 2-Core Merom, but at least they still have a Merom.
Conroe is one that I'm really curious about and wanting to see how it will best the G5.
Felldownthewell said:
Yes, yes a thousand times yes! I had an AMD Athlon 64 processor and loading internet exploror in 64 bit vs 32 bit was probably 3-4 times faster. Milage might vary but if the program is designed to take advantage of it then it will be. So before you post saying its only good for more than 8 gigs of ram really research it. It doesn't really make the chip faster it just means that it can do certain calculations in one step that might have taken a few before.
I think the real news here is the possibility for a higher memory ceiling in the laptops. Upping the capacity from 2GB to either 4 or 8 would probably bring a larger performance increase than any other aspect of the processor, especially for power users.
joshysquashy said:I dont know about you lot, but I am starting to see a reason for switching to intel.
I was skeptical at first but it does seem that they are increasing specifications at an alarming rate, when compared to PowerPC which as far as I know has not progressed much at all?
I do hope that after this transition is complete Apple is not constantly updating things, its nice to have the latest technology at least for a few months!
I think if Apple had their way, they would have been upgrading their computers all along; probably 2x/year. However, they never had the chips to do so. Now they do.
"stopgap" implies "compromise" - and the current MacIntels are compromised
Just like all of the current MacIntels.
I cite only one justification for the claim - "64-bit".
Apple (and Apple users) will be paying the costs for the decision not to wait several more months for 64-bit Intel solutions.
Cost: Resale value - after selling 32-bit MacIntels for 6-8 months, Apple upgrades the line to 64-bit. Wanna buy a used 32-bit MacBook? Didn't think so. Boat anchor.
Cost: Developer pain - after forcing the vendors to make fat binaries for 32-bit x86, in a few months Apple will introduce "even fatter binaries" with code for x86, x64 and PPC. (Hidden cost - how many developers will skip x86 and wait to do "even fatter binaries" with x64 and PPC only? How many will say "to hell with it!" after putting up with the OS9 -> OSX -> x86 -> x64 code porting exercises?)
The 32-bit MacIntels are "Yikes!" machines - stopgaps that will soon be the black sheep. Don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to eBay it when 64-bit arrives....
Yes, but "stopgap" usually means a somewhat desperate attempt to paper over a problem with a partial solution that you'd rather not use.nagromme said:
Just like all of the current MacIntels.
I cite only one justification for the claim - "64-bit".
Apple (and Apple users) will be paying the costs for the decision not to wait several more months for 64-bit Intel solutions.
Cost: Resale value - after selling 32-bit MacIntels for 6-8 months, Apple upgrades the line to 64-bit. Wanna buy a used 32-bit MacBook? Didn't think so. Boat anchor.
Cost: Developer pain - after forcing the vendors to make fat binaries for 32-bit x86, in a few months Apple will introduce "even fatter binaries" with code for x86, x64 and PPC. (Hidden cost - how many developers will skip x86 and wait to do "even fatter binaries" with x64 and PPC only? How many will say "to hell with it!" after putting up with the OS9 -> OSX -> x86 -> x64 code porting exercises?)
The 32-bit MacIntels are "Yikes!" machines - stopgaps that will soon be the black sheep. Don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to eBay it when 64-bit arrives....
Catfish_Man said:
2 GiB SO-DIMMs are sampling now, and Lenovo (Thinkpad) and HP are claiming that their Yonah laptops will support 4 GiB with 2 GiB SO-DIMMs.Heb1228 said:
The Napa chipset supports a max of 4 GiB, so don't hold your breath waiting for 8 GiB in a notebook
!Has Apple promised 4 GiB in the MBP or Imac?
wrong, wrong. wrong.
The reason is that x64 has more than twice as many usable general purpose registers as x86 - so compilers can reduce many of the slow accesses to cache and the far slower accesses to RAM.
If you'd said "With PPC architecture the only thing "64-bit" adds is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM" you'd be much more correct - but x64 is faster than x86 almost all of the time.
See above.
Completely wrong - the bulk of the performance testing on the x86/x64 platform is showing a typical 20% performance improvement on 64-bit code. You see this with 1 or 2 GiB of RAM - you don't need 8 GiB to see a 64-bit benefit.ChrisA said:
The reason is that x64 has more than twice as many usable general purpose registers as x86 - so compilers can reduce many of the slow accesses to cache and the far slower accesses to RAM.
If you'd said "With PPC architecture the only thing "64-bit" adds is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM" you'd be much more correct - but x64 is faster than x86 almost all of the time.
Actually, the 32-bit Intel chips do 64-bit and 128-bit integers, but it would be picky to point that out.ChrisA said:
Felldownthewell said:
See above.
AidenShaw said:
Yeah that's the problem with going with a 32-Bit stop gap chip. No one is saying these MacIntels are not fast and not better than the G4 laptop and single G5 iMacs. I would just say that a CD should be better than a single G5, however a core solo does not outdue a G5. I would've preferred Apple waited for Merom IMHO. It is what they really wanted and what will be on the laptop lines and possibly iMac line for at least 2-3 years. The upgrades will most likely be speed bumps and additions of more cores.
So yeah 32-Bit was going back since the future is 64-Bit, that was one of the biggest selling points of the G5. I guess they had to take a step back before taking one forward. All was not lost since the laptops did get faster, yet people are taking so long to receive them that Merom is getting closer and closer.
What exactly is discussed at this developer forum? Does it give official dates or do they just debut the products and allow people to try them out?
Interesting, I thought Merom was delayed to 2007. Well, this will be good news if it's true.
So, Powermac and Xserve are getting Conroe/Woodcrest, the portables are getting Merom (along with the Mac mini no doubt), but ti will be interesting to see what the next generation of iMacs get - Conroe or Merom? It will be interesting to see, I could make arguments for either...
So, Powermac and Xserve are getting Conroe/Woodcrest, the portables are getting Merom (along with the Mac mini no doubt), but ti will be interesting to see what the next generation of iMacs get - Conroe or Merom? It will be interesting to see, I could make arguments for either...
I love how I don't even have a Mac yet, and I'm off to college in late August, and I'm reading all of this like I should wait. Personally, instead of jumping all over this "wait till September" attitude, I'm getting a 1.83 GHz MBP with the 7200 RPM HD and an extra GB of RAM. Only $2100 . I was planning on going consumer-level notebook for my first and upgrading when Merom is released, but when I heard that....
People are already very happy with their MBPs. It appears that the only people dissatisfied with the current Intel lineup are those waiting for rev B or Merom.
. I was planning on going consumer-level notebook for my first and upgrading when Merom is released, but when I heard that....... a while ago, I decided that I should jump into a professional line notebook that I will be happy with for a long time until Merom is optimized.TGDaily Article said:
People are already very happy with their MBPs. It appears that the only people dissatisfied with the current Intel lineup are those waiting for rev B or Merom.
ncook06 said:
Yeah, and if you're always waiting for the next best thing, guess what - you'll always be waiting.
Buy the machine that meets your needs, when you need it, and you'll never be dissatisfied. 
This sounds like great news.
Now i have to figure out how much my current iBook will be worth so i can sell it to my sister and get myself a MacBook with merom inside.
Now i have to figure out how much my current iBook will be worth so i can sell it to my sister and get myself a MacBook with merom inside.
prostuff1 said:This sounds like great news.
Now i have to figure out how much my current iBook will be worth so i can sell it to my sister and get myself a MacBook with merom inside.
I wouldn't hold your breath - just because Merom might be available earlier now than expected, that doesn't mean you'll see it in a MacBook anytime soon. Look for the initial batch of Intel iBooks (MacBooks) to sport similar configurations to that of the new Mac mini (1.5 Solo, 1.66 Duo), and look for the MacBook Pros to receive the Merom well before the MacBooks ever will.
PlaceofDis said:
Aren't all computers just stop gap solutions? Further down the pipeline is always the holy grail of fast that you wait for, and then once it's come, it's just a stopgap to the next thing
ncook06 said:I love how I don't even have a Mac yet, and I'm off to college in late August, and I'm reading all of this like I should wait. Personally, instead of jumping all over this "wait till September" attitude, I'm getting a 1.83 GHz MBP with the 7200 RPM HD and an extra GB of RAM. Only $2100
... a while ago, I decided that I should jump into a professional line notebook that I will be happy with for a long time until Merom is optimized.
People are already very happy with their MBPs. It appears that the only people dissatisfied with the current Intel lineup are those waiting for rev B or Merom.
I have decided on the same course of action; considering what I am upgrading from (2.2ghz P4, 512 RAM, Gforce5200FX) and what I am going to be doing (word processing, FCP, and some gaming), I think the MBP is enough power for me. When mobile chips have DDR3 and 1066mhzFSB, I will upgrade. Until then, a 2ghz/2GB/7200 will do me fine.
There will definitely be a rev of the iMac and mini this year. Has anyone else noticed that the new Mac mini and the iMac are labeled "early 2006" (as in edition) all over apple.com?
Start here: http://www.apple.com/support/macmini/
Start here: http://www.apple.com/support/macmini/
Would 64 bit be better for me?
I am sorry that I dont understand a lot of the technical stuff you guys write about here but I do like to read what you all have to say.
I am a photojournalist mainly covering war zones and I rely on my laptop for 100% of my work, as I have to file from the field.
My Powerbook is a G4 1.5 with 2 gigs Ram, 128 VR and a 5,400-rpm disk.
The main applications that I use are Photoshop, C1 Pro (Raw converter) FotoStation (for cataloguing and captioning), and Cute FTP pro
And Office 2004. I also purchased Aperture but frankly it sucks at the moment but I do have high hopes that Apple will get it right.
My main problem is that pro Digital cameras are producing bigger and bigger files. My Canon 1D MKII produces a file that when opened in PS is almost 100 Megs.
My Ideal laptop would be exactly what I have now (Firewire 800, built in modem, and Buscard slot as I use a 32bit Lexar reader) plus MUCH more power and MORE RAM and a brighter screen as I can hardly see this one when working outside in sunshine. As for battery life, I never get more than 2 hours when working images, I have 2 spare apple batteries and most of the time a portable generator!!
I would love a new MBP 2.16 but would miss things that are really important to me, I know I can carry a plug in CF card reader and separate modem but its just more clutter to damage or loose.
Would I be correct in thinking that 64 bit makes for a more stable application? Faster image manipulation? And as most of the programs I use everyday are not yet UB that waiting for the Meron laptop would be the best thing for me to do?
Sorry this is long winded but thought some background would help with your advice.
I am sorry that I dont understand a lot of the technical stuff you guys write about here but I do like to read what you all have to say.
I am a photojournalist mainly covering war zones and I rely on my laptop for 100% of my work, as I have to file from the field.
My Powerbook is a G4 1.5 with 2 gigs Ram, 128 VR and a 5,400-rpm disk.
The main applications that I use are Photoshop, C1 Pro (Raw converter) FotoStation (for cataloguing and captioning), and Cute FTP pro
And Office 2004. I also purchased Aperture but frankly it sucks at the moment but I do have high hopes that Apple will get it right.
My main problem is that pro Digital cameras are producing bigger and bigger files. My Canon 1D MKII produces a file that when opened in PS is almost 100 Megs.
My Ideal laptop would be exactly what I have now (Firewire 800, built in modem, and Buscard slot as I use a 32bit Lexar reader) plus MUCH more power and MORE RAM and a brighter screen as I can hardly see this one when working outside in sunshine. As for battery life, I never get more than 2 hours when working images, I have 2 spare apple batteries and most of the time a portable generator!!
I would love a new MBP 2.16 but would miss things that are really important to me, I know I can carry a plug in CF card reader and separate modem but its just more clutter to damage or loose.
Would I be correct in thinking that 64 bit makes for a more stable application? Faster image manipulation? And as most of the programs I use everyday are not yet UB that waiting for the Meron laptop would be the best thing for me to do?
Sorry this is long winded but thought some background would help with your advice.
