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Intel Mobile Processors to be Refreshed in April? Nehalem Soon After
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Beric
macrumors 68020
Wow, you think mobile Nehalem will be that late?
I guess there's no chance of me getting a Nehalem notebook in mid-2009 then?
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
woohoo!
the 786, a spectacle of graphics and sound (bedooop)
looks like late 2009/early 2010 is my next macbook pro update (if specs fit my needs)
the 786, a spectacle of graphics and sound (bedooop)
looks like late 2009/early 2010 is my next macbook pro update (if specs fit my needs)
Beric
macrumors 68020
So not only are we seeing an interim 133 MHz bump in Q1 2009, we are seeing another 133 MHz bump in Q2 2009. Interesting.
Given that by then the quads (2.53/2.27/2.0 GHz) would be out for some time, I can see Apple using 35 W revisions of those chips. So then we could see an all-quad MacBook Pro lineup and a dual-core MacBook lineup.
Note that this is for Clarksfield and not Auburndale. Auburndale is January 2010.
Not even close. I'm thinking more like Yonah » Merom (unless it goes dual-core » quad-core at the same time).
I've heard that Nehalem TDPs are 10 W higher than Penryn TDPs with equivalent total heat output.
With Apple's recent history if Intel releases new processors in 2Q2009, then there will be people on here in 3Q2009 waiting for Apple to finally update with the new processor.
Then there will be the postings in October saying they hope there is a release before Thanksgiving and pointing out that all of the PC notebook vendors have been using the new processor for two months.
<Sarcasm off>
Then there will be the postings in October saying they hope there is a release before Thanksgiving and pointing out that all of the PC notebook vendors have been using the new processor for two months.
<Sarcasm off>
Depends on the PC. If Apple decides that Clarksfield's clock speeds are too low and doesn't use them (same with 2.0 GHz Penryn quad-core), then Apple notebooks would get Nehalem 1~2 quarters after PC notebooks.
Beric
macrumors 68020
And we have every right to. I'm looking at getting a performance notebook in mid-2009. If Nehalem for PC's is just out when I'm ready to buy, and Nehalem for Macs isn't yet, there's no question of what I'll get.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Nehalem (Bloomfield) is coming out on the X58 just next month. It's going to be a mess on launch day but once the market is saturated then even the 2.66 GHz Core i7 is easily within a consumer budget.
That 10W is from the onboard memory controller.
Beric
macrumors 68020
Ouch. That would be a shame. Apple does seem to structure their notebook updates (and their updates in general) such that their computers are almost always out of date by a generation.
Dang I need a laptop for college next year and it looks like Nehalem is out of the question, and I would probably die without my own computer for a couple of months...
Anyone finished working on that time machine yet? And not the one in leopard as that only goes backwards 😉
Anyone finished working on that time machine yet? And not the one in leopard as that only goes backwards 😉
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Back in college I lived in the computer labs. Not to mention the 24 hour one...
Beric
macrumors 68020
Heh, I use the only Mac in my college computer lab. It's an old G4 cube. With worse specs than my Dad's old iMac G3. 😛
However, in a quarter or two, the college is supposed to be buying 100 or so Macs to put in the computer lab, all running both OS X and Windows. 😀
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
I don't see why students "need" a laptop sometimes. If I was on campus the software that I wanted to run was on the lab machines anyways. I did mount my network home directory on my Macs as well. It was just easier to use the same network home directory after class as the one that I did while in class.
Hopefully Apple will move to standardize on 25W TDP parts in the next refresh with 25W 2.53GHz P9500 and 2.66GHz P9600 processors on the 15". The 17" can use the 35W 2.8GHz T9600 model, while the 3.06GHz T9900 35W part can be a BTO for both 15" and 17" MBP.
From what I've heard, Apple appears to be using 35W T9400 parts for their current 2.53GHz models instead of 25W P9500 which is disappointing. May well be why some are seeing Apple's 5hr battery life claims, namely the low-end 15" MBP, while others aren't seeing it, namely the high-end 15" MBP.
And in regards to Capella, it'd be interesting to see if it'll end up being based on 32nm Westmere rather than 45nm Nehalem. The first 32nm parts are supposed to show up in Q4 2009, so a 1 quarter delay to move Capella to 32nm may well be worthwhile. AMD is offering no competitive pressure in notebooks, especially now that nVidia IGPs have negated the AMD's Puma platform IGP advantage. And Nehalem's design features like integrated memory controllers have no real benefit for notebooks. Nehalem itself is design primarily to address Intel's weakness in the server market where having memory channels and memory bandwidth scaling with the number of processors is important.
Being on the same 45nm process means Nehalem won't bring much power consumption improvement to notebooks and won't be able to enable mainstream mobile quad cores seeing current Penryn based mobile quad cores require an Extreme Edition 45W TDP rather than the standard 35W or 25W TDPs of mobile dual cores. Launching using a 32nm process for mobile chips makes sense to give strong power savings and reduce cost to allow mainstream mobile quad cores.
From what I've heard, Apple appears to be using 35W T9400 parts for their current 2.53GHz models instead of 25W P9500 which is disappointing. May well be why some are seeing Apple's 5hr battery life claims, namely the low-end 15" MBP, while others aren't seeing it, namely the high-end 15" MBP.
And in regards to Capella, it'd be interesting to see if it'll end up being based on 32nm Westmere rather than 45nm Nehalem. The first 32nm parts are supposed to show up in Q4 2009, so a 1 quarter delay to move Capella to 32nm may well be worthwhile. AMD is offering no competitive pressure in notebooks, especially now that nVidia IGPs have negated the AMD's Puma platform IGP advantage. And Nehalem's design features like integrated memory controllers have no real benefit for notebooks. Nehalem itself is design primarily to address Intel's weakness in the server market where having memory channels and memory bandwidth scaling with the number of processors is important.
Being on the same 45nm process means Nehalem won't bring much power consumption improvement to notebooks and won't be able to enable mainstream mobile quad cores seeing current Penryn based mobile quad cores require an Extreme Edition 45W TDP rather than the standard 35W or 25W TDPs of mobile dual cores. Launching using a 32nm process for mobile chips makes sense to give strong power savings and reduce cost to allow mainstream mobile quad cores.
We should see Nehalem out for desktops and servers before the year end.. but mobile chips won't be out till Q3ish of next year. Hopefully, they'll be on Westmere 32nm process by that time.
We'll have to wait for Intel or is should we expect Nvidia? to come up with a Nehalem compatible mobile chipset. None of the current mobile chipsets will work, since Nehalem has it's own on-die memory controller. I'm sure nvidia will have no problems with this as they've been producing chipsets for AMD who has a similar memory architecture.
We'll have to wait for Intel or is should we expect Nvidia? to come up with a Nehalem compatible mobile chipset. None of the current mobile chipsets will work, since Nehalem has it's own on-die memory controller. I'm sure nvidia will have no problems with this as they've been producing chipsets for AMD who has a similar memory architecture.
Or better yet, wait 10 years from now. I'm sure they're gonna have faster chips. If you need a laptop now, I suggest you get the newly released MB/MBPs and if you like Air, just wait for a 2-3 weeks. If you're gonna wait for the last quarter of next year, why not wait for an extra year?
That's really disappointing. They should at least offer the option to equip the new models with a "P" Core2Duo to save some power. But I think they only offer "T" models to save money. Maybe the nVidia chipset doesn't allow that because it's not a Centrino 2 chipset?
Same, seeing a Nehalem Snow Leopard 15 inch mbpro with Starcraft 2 is enough to goad almost anyone.
That was actually my concern about moving to nVidia chipsets. It's good in the short term, but in the future they'll probably have to move back to Intel.
By now, I'm sure most people are familiar with Nehalem having an integrated memory controller and QPI links instead of the FSB. But that is actually for servers and high-end desktop. Mobile and mainstream desktop processors won't actually have a QPI link. FSB and QPI are designed to provide a fast link to the northbridge where previously the memory controller and PCIe x16 links for the graphics card was located. In mobile and mainstream desktop processors not only will the memory controller be integrated, but an IGP and the PCIe x16 links will be integrated too. Meaning that there will be no northbridge and with no northbridge, no need for QPI links. (The other use of QPI links is to connect to other processor sockets which don't exist in mobile or mainstream desktop platforms). All that is left will be the slow DMI link to connect a southbridge for peripherals.
Based on this, there won't really be any future nVidia IGPs, since processors will already have an Intel IGP, and there isn't a northbridge to hold a separate IGP. It may well be a good thing though since the focus would then be on low-end discrete GPUs, which may not be glamourous but is still a step up from an IGP.
In this environment, Apple may well not need either Intel or nVidia to provide a southbridge. Apple and PA Semi may not have the time or skill to produce a full chipset, but they could make a southbridge if they wanted too. It may well be to their advantage to make there own southbridge anyways in order to integrate precisely the functionality they need. Things like the ethernet PHY and firewire which are currently separate chips could be built-in. I believe Apple's touchpad also uses a separate controller chip to assist with the gestures so that can be integrated. Things like better hardware Core Audio acceleration and other unique Apple technologies can also be integrated.
It's only a cost thing. The 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo used in the low-end MBP is a 25W TDP model, so support for P series medium voltage processors in the nVidia chipset isn't an issue.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
I need more CPU choices. Why isn't it possible to order the MB with a 'T' CPU? Del charges you just a few AU dollars more when you upgrade from P to T.