Intel Outlines Next Generation Processors (Nehalem) Due in Late 2008

[diamond.g]

Why doesn't Apple like the WiFi and WiMax support in Intel's chipsets? Do they have poor signal reception or something? If the oft-rumored upcoming ACD refresh happens to include DisplayPort I'm sure they'll enable it in Calpella.

If Apple won't be using the IGP in Calpella for the Mini and Macbook what would they be using? I don't see them disabling the IGP and putting discrete graphics in these machines.

I am not sure. It is apart of the confusion with the Mobile Platforms. Apple uses parts of the platform but not the actual platform. Apple uses Intels IGP due to it being integrated into the Northbridge. I don't see Apple using Intels WiFi, LAN, or WLAN.

Apple hasn't adopted HDMI so I am not sure to them adopting Displayport.

Does Apple support any of the hardware acceleration that the GPU's they use provide? I seem to remember watching a DVD on my Macbook and thinking to myself where is the deinterlacing.

 

[sellitman]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I'm waiting for Apple to use its cash on hand to buy out AMD and then make Chips when they want, on their schedule , not Intel's.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

I'm waiting for Apple to use its cash on hand to buy out AMD and then make Chips when they want, on their schedule , not Intel's.

That would be a disaster of epic proportions. AMD hasn't delivered anything worthwhile in two years.

 

[retroneo]

Why doesn't Apple like the WiFi and WiMax support in Intel's chipsets? Do they have poor signal reception or something? If the oft-rumored upcoming ACD refresh happens to include DisplayPort I'm sure they'll enable it in Calpella.

If Apple won't be using the IGP in Calpella for the Mini and Macbook what would they be using? I don't see them disabling the IGP and putting discrete graphics in these machines.

I imagine they haven't been using Intel's wireless because they have found an advantage other than price from another vendor. I can't find out if it is higher performance or lower power consumption in the part from Broadcom. Broadcom certainly shipped 802.11n before Intel.

Apple may not choose use WiMax and could include HSPA then LTE instead (that solution would work in all markets and give far greater coverage in the US). An HSPA card will work on all networks that Apple has an iPhone agreement with. Hopefully they don't lock it if they choose this path...

I would imagine they would continue using Intel integrated graphics for the MacBook and Mac mini, they do now, why would that change?

 

[Evangelion]

That would be a disaster of epic proportions. AMD hasn't delivered anything worthwhile in two years.

Actually, they have. Just because Intel has had the upper hand recently, does not mean that AMD's CPU's are worthless.

That said, buying AMD makes exactly zero sense.

 

[diamond.g]

That would be a disaster of epic proportions. AMD hasn't delivered anything worthwhile in two years.

I dunno, AMD's IGP is much better than Intels. Intel may or may not be on the right track with Larabee. It is a little too early to tell. Plus Apple would own ATI, and that can't be all bad now can it?

 

[happynow]

I use windows xp , but I like here .

 

[DavidCar]

... the special PCI Express links called DMI ...

So what is DMI useful for? I see on the Nehalem Wikipedia that Clarksfield has no QPI as noted here earlier, but has a built in PCIe and DMI.

FWIW, I also note there that the four-QPI Nehalems required for the four-Nehalem systems shown in the diagrams on previous pages here are called Beckton. They have 8 cores, and are due Q4 2009. So in theory, at the January 2010 MacWorld Apple could introduce a Mac Pro with four Nehalems, 32 cores and 64 threads. I wonder if there would be a market for such an expensive beast?

 

[diamond.g]

So what is DMI useful for? I see on the Nehalem Wikipedia that Clarksfield has no QPI as noted here earlier, but has a built in PCIe and DMI.

FWIW, I also note there that the four-QPI Nehalems required for the four-Nehalem systems shown in the diagrams on previous pages here are called Beckton. They have 8 cores, and are due Q4 2009. So in theory, at the January 2010 MacWorld Apple could introduce a Mac Pro with four Nehalems, 32 cores and 64 threads. I wonder if there would be a market for such an expensive beast?

According to TechReport DMI is Intels existing chip to chip interconnect.

I dunno if Apple would release a 4 way system as a workstation. It is most probable that the 4 CPU systemboard will be a high end board. Apple may just stick with the 2 way system they currently use. You could still see up to 16 cores in a MacPro though (through the magic of dual octo core CPUs).

 

[DavidCar]

According to TechReport DMI is Intels existing chip to chip interconnect. ...

Thanks for the reference. It looks like DMI would be the connection between the Clarksfield and the Southbridge.

 

[rtn5000]

Reading more about Nehalem gets me excited about having this in a Macbook/Macbook Pro....I can't begin to image what impact just replacing Front Side Bus(with QuickPath)will have in terms of system wide performance gains.

Err looking at the last two posts above....Desktops and Mobile chips will not have QuickPath?? What? Why? Bastards.

 

[sleepingworker]

Uhg! For those of us who didn't buy on the last MBP update, this is a tough one. Always something else on the horizon. But, that's a good thing.

Still, I don't think my PB will last until sometime in 2009 - it creaks and shows it age with every spinning ball.

 

[DavidCar]

Reading more about Nehalem gets me excited about having this in a Macbook/Macbook Pro....I can't begin to image what impact just replacing Front Side Bus(with QuickPath)will have in terms of system wide performance gains.

Err looking at the last two posts above....Desktops and Mobile chips will not have QuickPath?? What? Why? Bastards.

The advantage will come from having the memory controller integrated with the processor, so that the memory connects directly to the processor rather than to a Northbridge chip. That will be the source of the system wide performance gains. The QPI "QuickPath" connections are only important for maintaining those gains in multi-Nehalem systems.

 

[rtn5000]

The advantage will come from having the memory controller integrated with the processor, so that the memory connects directly to the processor rather than to a Northbridge chip. That will be the source of the system wide performance gains. The QPI "QuickPath" connections are only important for maintaining those gains in multi-Nehalem systems.

Ah ok thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Actually, they have. Just because Intel has had the upper hand recently, does not mean that AMD's CPU's are worthless.

That said, buying AMD makes exactly zero sense.

I agree. My current computer is a dual processor Athlon 2600MP from 2004 that is still running great. The money I saved back then by going with AMD, instead of a slower Intel cpu, went toward doubling my memory from 1GB to 2GB.

My next workstation will be a Power Mac and I'm glad that Apple made the switch to Intel because AMD has stumbled badly the last couple of years and the Barcelona launch has been a disaster. I hope they recover and keep the pressure on Intel to keep putting out great chips.

 

[rtn5000]

I agree. My current computer is a dual processor Athlon 2600MP from 2004 that is still running great. The money I saved back then by going with AMD, instead of a slower Intel cpu, went toward doubling my memory from 1GB to 2GB.

My next workstation will be a Power Mac and I'm glad that Apple made the switch to Intel because AMD has stumbled badly the last couple of years and the Barcelona launch has been a disaster. I hope they recover and keep the pressure on Intel to keep putting out great chips.

Hehe I hope you mean Mac Pro not Power Mac...

 

[hugodrax]

This will help with nuclear weapons design.

 

[winterspan]

I apologize if someone has already mentioned the points below, but I don't have time right now to read through the whole thread yet. I just wanted to point out a few corrections that I noticed in the article to make sure people are not confused.

Intel first introduced their current Core microarchitecture in Q1 2006. This represented a significant leap forward over their previous Pentium M microarchitecture. Apple took advantage of this transition and delivered some of their first Intel Macs using the Core-based processors.

1) Core Solo/Duo processors (Pentium M architecture, codenamed "Yonah") were released in January, Whereas the "Core architecture" based Core 2 family was launched in July. Apple's first Intel Macs were used Core "1" solo/Duo chips.

The Core microarchitecture spawned many processor revisions which were known by their code names: Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest, and Penryn. Many of these processors have been used in Apple's Macs over the past 2 years.

2) Penryn is really the only Core architecture based "processor revision". Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest, Kentsfield, and Clovertown are just codenames of Core 2 processor lines that are differentiated only for the purpose of intended application (laptop, desktop, server, etc) and only have minor differences such as clock speed, cache size, etc.

The key new features in Nehalem are Simultaneous multithreading, QuickConnect, and tri-channel DDR3 -- all of which are...

3) I would definitely add native quad-core/octo-core and Integrated memory controller to that list. Also, again, just to make sure people are not confused, the new interconnect replacing the front-side-bus is called "Intel QuickPath Interconnect" or just "QuickPath".

 

[retroneo]

So what is DMI useful for? I see on the Nehalem Wikipedia that Clarksfield has no QPI as noted here earlier, but has a built in PCIe and DMI.

DMI is used for connecting the Southbridge (e.g. ICH9 - USB, Audio, Ethernet, etc) to the Northbridge (PCIe, Memory, FSB) in today's Intel macs.

DMI is essentially PCI Express 4x.

With the Northbridge being integrated in Clarksfield, the Southbridge is all that's required.

So in theory, at the January 2010 MacWorld Apple could introduce a Mac Pro with four Nehalems, 32 cores and 64 threads. I wonder if there would be a market for such an expensive beast?

Apple hasn't used any Xeon MP processors in the past, it is highly unlikely they will start. They are priced considerably above the Xeon DP and you'd need at least twice as many!

 

[chickenninja]

2009 that should just in time for starcraft 2 OH yeah!

 

[diamond.g]

DMI is used for connecting the Southbridge (e.g. ICH9 - USB, Audio, Ethernet, etc) to the Northbridge (PCIe, Memory, FSB) in today's Intel macs.
DMI is essentially PCI Express 4x.
With the Northbridge being integrated in Clarksfield, the Southbridge is all that's required.
Apple hasn't used any Xeon MP processors in the past, it is highly unlikely they will start. They are priced considerably above the Xeon DP and you'd need at least twice as many!

The CPU's also use DMI to talk to one another (when on different sockets). Just a note, a Northbridge will still be used, as the Southbridges don't usually carry enough PCIe lanes to handle multiple GPU's and other add-on cards.

 

[winterspan]

I am not sure. It is apart of the confusion with the Mobile Platforms. Apple uses parts of the platform but not the actual platform. Apple uses Intels IGP due to it being integrated into the Northbridge. I don't see Apple using Intels WiFi, LAN, or WLAN.

and Thank god Apple doesn't do the whole Centrino. Even with Santa Rosa, INTEL STILL HAS 10/100 ETHERNET CHIPS! Thats right folks, Go customize a brand new Dell Inspiron --- 10/100 NIC is all you get!

Hasn't Apple had 1000/GigE standard for like 2-3 years now?

 

[Eidorian]

and Thank god Apple doesn't do the whole Centrino. Even with Santa Rosa, INTEL STILL HAS 10/100 ETHERNET CHIPS! Thats right folks, Go customize a brand new Dell Inspiron --- 10/100 NIC is all you get!

Hasn't Apple had 1000/GigE standard for like 2-3 years now?

Sure they're Intel and not Realtek?

 

[bigwig]

and Thank god Apple doesn't do the whole Centrino. Even with Santa Rosa, INTEL STILL HAS 10/100 ETHERNET CHIPS! Thats right folks, Go customize a brand new Dell Inspiron --- 10/100 NIC is all you get!

Montevina has built-in GigE according to MacRumors own Intel Mobile Chip Roadmap.

 

[winterspan]

The new laptop processors have the PCI controller moved to the CPU as well, doing away with the need for QuickPath.

There is no FSB in the Clarksfield/Auburndale Nehalem-based laptop processors. With no northbridge or a second CPU to connect, there is nothing to connect via QuickPath! ... Clarksfield and Auburndale have built-in PCI Express links to connect to the SouthBridge - there is no need for QuickPath to connect a northbridge!

DMI is used for connecting the Southbridge (e.g. ICH9 - USB, Audio, Ethernet, etc) to the Northbridge (PCIe, Memory, FSB) in today's Intel macs.
DMI is essentially PCI Express 4x. With the Northbridge being integrated in Clarksfield, the Southbridge is all that's required.

Ok so let me get this straight. In the desktop/server Nehalem, the processors use QP to connect to each other and to connect to the Tylersburg I/O hub, which is a replacement for the "memory controller/northbridge". The Tylersburg I/O chip connects to the PCIexpress controller/slots and also connects using DMI to the ICH (southbridge) for usb/networking/etc.

That all makes sense. Now in the laptop architecture, you say there is no need for a northbridge (as the memory controller is now integrated) and thus no need for quickpath; and that the PCI express controller is built into the processor as well. So basically, you are saying that there is no need for a laptop equivalent of "Tylersburg I/O Hub"? If i'm following this right, the consequences of this are as followins:

1) mobile Nehalem connects directly to the PCI express slot (and expresscard) using it's integrated PCI express controller.
2) mobile Nehalem connects directly to the southbridge (ICH) using DMI
3) mobile Nehalem connects directly to a bank of RAM using onboard memory controller.

Am i right? and by the way, what is the interface that connects the on-chip memory controller to the actual SDRAM slots?