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Yeah right! Keep telling yourself that!

Those of us who lived through prior transitions knows when Apple announces a divorce, they move out of the house before the ink is dried on the divorce papers.

Don’t buy any Macs right now unless you absolutely need it or it’s a tax write off!

It should be noted that this transition is happening at a time where there are more Macs on Earth than ever before.

There are 100 million Macs in the world today... all with Intel processors. And those Macs will continue to be in service for a long time.

I would hope Apple and their developers keep this in mind when they think about an end-date for support.

The Mac landscape is a lot different now than it was in 2009 when PowerPC support was dropped.
 
Partially agree. Intel shouldn’t worry too much even when Apple leave Intel completely in future years. Perhaps only AMD who can really kick Intel ass hard.



Unless current ARM have capability multi thread raw beast power similar like Threadripper/Epic/Xeon. Current Apple A12Z is only strong at single burst, one threaded operation and low battery usage. Sure Apple can design monster chips, but it probably takes times.
Which they’ve been working on for 5+ years now.

Do people think Apple is *now* starting their work on a transition????
 
It should be noted that this transition is happening at a time where there are more Macs on Earth than ever before.

There are 100 million Macs in the world today... all with Intel processors. And those Macs will continue to be in service for a long time.

I would hope Apple and their developers keep this in mind when they think about an end-date for support.

The Mac landscape is a lot different now than it was in 2009 when PowerPC support was dropped.
There's a difference between supported and optimized for. Apple isn't Microsoft who is willing to get Windows 10 running on 15 year old Core 2 Duo machines. The latest apps within 2 years are likely going to be significantly slower on the Intel Macs vs. the Arm ones.

My G4 Powerbook and Mac mini's value tanked within 2 years of buying them. (Yes I decided to switch at the worst time in 2005). Prior to that you could count on good resale to help cover the cost of your next Mac. Prior to this you could count on 50% resale value in 3-4 years, you'd be extremely lucky to get 25% in 3 years on an Intel Mac.
 
Lets be honest, the A12x is not what is going into their desktops; they have something else in the pipeline that will blow the pants off even that for laptops and desktops. I agree that active cooling will help greatly. We know what the A12x can do without cooling; but they have something monumental when it comes to your next MacBook Pro. Something so good you will want to upgrade; it won't be marginal. This is a big step to move code away for Intel native and the ecosystem that already exists; it needs to be worth it besides saving $$ on Intel silicon.

I envy the optimism. All I can think of is more bugs and less compatibility.
 
So..., I got a the 2019 MBP16in i9 (and I guess to those that have the similar MBP gen as well) how long you think we can/should keep it for?
 
Even though Apple has a tendency to buy only higher-end chips from Intel... I don't think this will affect Intel too much.

Intel has bigger problems than losing Apple as a customer.

My guess is higher end chips sell with smaller profit margins too. Could be wrong, but either way definitely not the most important area of sales for Intel.
 
I'm a failure at business type decisions but I wonder if Apple will continue to support Intel and maybe even have new Intel based Macs even after the transition is "complete" in two years.

They said that they are going to support Intel for "years to come" and that they are releasing new Intel Macs later this year (which will have to be supported for 3-5 years) - and they can't credibly drop support for the Mac Pro for another 4-5 years (although it has to be said they have a track record of leaving Mac Pro users hanging).

However, it depends whether your definition of support includes "New version of MacOS every year"... seems quite likely that 11.1 or 11.2 will be the last Intel version of MacOS, but every MacOS version before has got critical updates for several years after its release and (in my experience) it is at least 2 years before running an "old" version of MacOS becomes a problem.

Apple have stuffed up in the past when they've let things get horribly outdated before suddenly springing radical changes on users who are already desperate to upgrade. So far it sounds as if they are doing it right this time: giving advance warning, Intel Mac updates still in the pipeline (so you won't be forced to go ARM on day 1).
 
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So..., I got a the 2019 MBP16in i9 (and I guess to those that have the similar MBP gen as well) how long you think we can/should keep it for?

I would keep it as long as it is the most convenient platform for the software you use. Once most of your software works natively on the new ARM Macs, that's when I would switch.

Full disclosure, I am typing this on a 2015 MBP, so there is that. I will probably buy the last Intel iMac and use that for three years.
 
I envy the optimism. All I can think of is more bugs and less compatibility.

I don't really understand where that comes from? Yeah, bugs are in everything. So what?

I'm a failure at business type decisions but I wonder if Apple will continue to support Intel and maybe even have new Intel based Macs even after the transition is "complete" in two years. I don't see this as the same as the switch from 68000 to PowerPC or from PowerPC to Intel. In both of those cases, the older platform was hugely out classed by the newer platform and the older platform eventually just died. In the case of Intel, its clear that it will be highly competitive far into the future.

Indeed, in the previous two switches, they switched from a significantly less popular platform to a more popular one. In this case, Apple is switching to a platform that only Apple will be on -- unless you count things like Raspberry Pis and such.

I also really wonder how this is going to affect the container and VM situation. I saw in the key note that Apple is working with Docker but much of the value of both VMs and containers currently is there was one hardware ABI. Now, that's not true.

You'll see that the current iPad Pro chip with 16gb of ram will already be faster than current MacBooks. (the terms of service say no benchmarking the dev kit but I'm sure will get whipsers and leaks) So when the actual real hardware is shown this winter it will be obvious that Intel is not competitive.
 
So..., I got a the 2019 MBP16in i9 (and I guess to those that have the similar MBP gen as well) how long you think we can/should keep it for?

Not that this is really anything to go by, but might have some bearing on timelines and manage expectations.

When they announced intel Macs in 2006, they then continued offering support for PowerPC until 2009 with the first release of OS X being 10.6 as an Intel OS only.

They have stated that the transition will be 2x years, so I would suspect that we have 5 years of support until there is no other option but to migrate.
 
What else are they gonna say?

Lot of furious people who just bought the new MBA, I’d imagine.

Good luck selling any Mac products right now.
It’s going to be a while before the whole line up is on Apples Processors. Besides, I wouldn’t want to be one of the 1st ones to try this out too. I just ordered a MacBook Pro, and but the time I’m ready to replace it, I hope all the issues are worked out.
 
I predict Intel is going to be in trouble if they don't come up with something really big soon. Apple computers have relied solely on Intel processors since 2006, but PC laptops and desktops have been a mixture of Intel, AMD, and ARM. Now AMD is really upping their game, and beating Intel in benchmarks consistently at a better price. Intel had better do the same if they expect to stay relevant.
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Not sure why this page is still up...
 
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So where does this leave people who still want to use Bootcamp and boot to Windows OS natively? I love the new Mac Pro..but now I'm wondering if it's going to be a worthwhile (6000 dollar) investment.. or if I need to run windows I just need to go back to what I used to do which was run two different machines.
 
The damage to Intel is not necessarily the loss of Apple's immediate business. But the long-term, cumulative effect of a growing movement away from x86, and the industry's reliance on Intel as a whole.
There's not a single major OS that's tied to Intel right now. This means that, for Intel to become irrelevant, all that needs to happen is for Microsoft, Dell, Acer, HP, etc to start promoting hardware with ARM instead of x86. The only things you lose out on are x32 and OpenGL games and apps.

Note that I said promote, not release, since they already sell the hardware. Just not much of it.
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So where does this leave people who still want to use Bootcamp and boot to Windows OS natively? I love the new Mac Pro..but now I'm wondering if it's going to be a worthwhile (6000 dollar) investment.. or if I need to run windows I just need to go back to what I used to do which was run two different machines.
If Microsoft releases an ISO of Windows on ARM, then it'll just be up to Apple to release drivers. You can already get Windows on ARM, I'm just not sure how legal it is.
 
So where does this leave people who still want to use Bootcamp and boot to Windows OS natively? I love the new Mac Pro..but now I'm wondering if it's going to be a worthwhile (6000 dollar) investment.. or if I need to run windows I just need to go back to what I used to do which was run two different machines.
Unless buying that $6000 Mac Pro is mission critical, I’d really avoid that unless it’s going to be a tax write off.
 
So where does this leave people who still want to use Bootcamp and boot to Windows OS natively? I love the new Mac Pro..but now I'm wondering if it's going to be a worthwhile (6000 dollar) investment..
Natively? No one knows, if anything, Apple will have Bootcamp compatible with the ARM version of Windows. You can't install the x86 version natively.

Is the MP worthwhile? Well, it's a machine for professionals making money with it. If you're making money with it, then you should have that $6k (or whatever config you get) back in no time. It's a bad idea to invest in a computer and break even in 5 to 10 years. Ask yourself if you really need the power or just want it. For an investment running it at home, for fun, it's a bad idea.

Here's an example, I recently blew over $200k on three Dell machines for research. That investment was made for a period of three years (duration of the project). If they're still running then, great. If not, there'll be a new budget from future research projects to buy new hardware. It's not really different for a business case.
 
These new Macs will be good for browsing and light duty tasks.

Well, if you actually watch the video, then you'll see "light duty tasks" like Maya, 4k FCPx and Shadow of the Tomb Raider running on the existing A12Z, which was designed for the iPad - and 2 out of those 3 were x86 binaries running via Rosetta 2. Mainly showing that such apps are more dependent on the GPU and hardware codecs than they are on CPU core performance - but that's kinda the point, since that's how the ARMs in the majority of Mac models are going to outperform Intel's iGPUs.

No they don't. ARM CPUs will never be as powerful as x86. That's just a plain fact and always will be.

No, those are the "alternative facts". The actual fact is that ARM cores consist of a RISC processor, while x86 cores consist of a RISC processor plus the extra hardware to translate x86 CISC ops to RISC micro-ops, so x86 cores will always be bigger and more power-hungry than ARM cores. If Intel or AMD make a 16 core processor, ARM can either fit more cores into the same area and thermal constraints, or fill the extra space with GPU, "neural engines", hardware codecs and such - which are increasingly more significant in terms of performance than having a slightly faster core.

The actual fact is that A12 chips in low-power, passively-cooled iPads have already been benchmarked at speeds that rival i7-based 15" MacBook Pros... and while synthetic benchmarks do tend to over-estimate real-world performance, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - those actively-cooled i7 systems are already martyrs to thermal throttling on sustained workloads. Meanwhile, all the A12 series needed to do to prove itself was to outperform the MacBook Air.

We haven't seen an Axx chip designed for an actively-cooled desktop/laptop yet. Just an A12 designed for a 6mm-thick tablet.

When they get round to the Mac Pro it will be something like 28 core Xeon vs. 32 core Axx with on-die Afterburner.
 
There's not a single major OS that's tied to Intel right now. This means that, for Intel to become irrelevant, all that needs to happen is for Microsoft, Dell, Acer, HP, etc to start promoting hardware with ARM instead of x86. The only things you lose out on are x32 and OpenGL games and apps.

Note that I said promote, not release, since they already sell the hardware. Just not much of it.
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If Microsoft releases an ISO of Windows on ARM, then it'll just be up to Apple to release drivers. You can already get Windows on ARM, I'm just not sure how legal it is.
ARM Windows right now is a crapfest. Besides it’s already hard to try to install Linux on a T2 equipped Mac, the ARM Macs will definitely have much more security in the to prevent 3rd part OS installs.

Also, Bootcamp was announced a year after Intel Macs were released so it still might be possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it as the clamor for ARM windows is going to be very small. In contrast, when bootcamp was first released you could run the latest apps on then Windows, you’re not getting that on Windows ARM
 
ARM CPUs today are more powerful core for core than x86 today. Your "high end 16 core 32 thread CPU" is in practice a 16 thread CPU because the 16 hyper threads give very little performance at the cost of huge vulnerabilities, and it will be beaten by an ARM CPU with 12 fast cores.


So what processors have you worked on? Engineer for AMD, Intel or another chip manufacturer?
 
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