The PC (non-Mac) industry still lives in another world. The term "elegance" has a much lower bar of qualification. That video felt more like a Steve Ballmer sales pitch than anything else.
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Intel Shares Details on Thunderbolt 4, Launching Later This Year
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The PC (non-Mac) industry still lives in another world. The term "elegance" has a much lower bar of qualification. That video felt more like a Steve Ballmer sales pitch than anything else.
There are several AMD boards with Thunderbolt, they just can't officially call it that because until 2019 Intel did not certify them. That policy has changed. Anyway, the point is that TB is not exclusive to Intel CPUs going forward, so from that perspective nothing prevents Apple from implementing it on their "Apple Silicon" platform if they want to.
Apple👏🏻 co-developed👏🏻 Thunderbolt👏🏻with👏🏻Intel👏🏻.
To my knowledge, there is no publicly available information regarding IP ownership between the two, or whether there are any fees for Apple’s use of thunderbolt as a result of Apple’s involvement.
Those "stupid" nubs are far better when you're using a dock with more than one machine, or multiple docks with different accessories connected on the same desk, since you don't have to pair the keyboard and mouse with those computers. I have a pair of docks on my desk that I use with both my work laptop and my personal one. Using logitech mice with the USB recievers means I can change what's docked where without dealing with bluetooth pairing issues
Fair enough, but the average consumer does not need this ability. I hate it because it needlessly eats a USB port when most computer shipped today are shipping with very few USB-A ports.
I think you underestimate how many businesses deploy docks on desks that may be used by more than one person
I was referring to the consumer market. I just picked up a Dell for some Windows work and they ship keyboards and mice with the nub receivers. There's only 4 USB ports on the whole computer.
My company uses USB-C docking stations, but most of us have MacBookPros, so the nub thing isn't an issue.
Ok. I was only counting the boards certified as "ThunderBolt." The use of TB technology without the branding is a distinct possibility, but I'm uncertain any OEMs would actually make the effort to implement TB technology without officially calling it that, at least on mobile platforms.
You're correct. We don't have any information about IP ownership or whether Apple has to pay (or even if Apple receives payments) for "certification." I am assuming Apple would have to pay to have the technology "certified" for its designs, but I could be wrong.
Apple promises to support Thunderbolt on its new ARM Macs
Thunderbolt is coming to Apple silicon
www.theverge.com
Continued Thunderbolt support confirmed by Apple.
Meaning “Wired” -That we are still talking about wired connections. I’m ready for wire free solutions.
Sorry for the stupid questions, but:
1) Does TB4 could bring any benefits over my TB3 setup when it comes to using external monitors (I use a USB-C-DP cable)? Like better performance or wasting less energy or anything alike or it won’t change anything?
2) Can we expect a TB4 MBP 16 this year already?
Thanks.
1) Does TB4 could bring any benefits over my TB3 setup when it comes to using external monitors (I use a USB-C-DP cable)? Like better performance or wasting less energy or anything alike or it won’t change anything?
2) Can we expect a TB4 MBP 16 this year already?
Thanks.
Yeah, I agree. I run a G-Tech TB3 HD with the $129 Apple 2m braided TB3 cable. Works quite well as a bootable backup, but I can't justify much more than that.
I don't think so. DisplayPort 1.4 is probably still the max.
The Apple Thunderbolt 3 Pro Cable (2m) seems to match the requirements of a Thunderbolt 4 cable (it supports all the signal types - not sure about the USB4 signal types though).
Thunderbolt 4 docks with multiple downward facing ports (up to 3) will be useful for people that have Thunderbolt devices with only one Thunderbolt port) or you can connect two USB-C displays (most Docks do not have a second USB-C port with DisplayPort alt mode like the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2).
Thunderbolt 4 adds USB 3.2 gen 2x2 support and USB4 support.
There picture says USB4 can't do Thunderbolt networking. Is that really true? Does that mean USB4 can't do Thunderbolt Target Display Mode or Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode? All three types of traffic use some kind of Thunderbolt DMA communication between two hosts (separate from PCIe or DisplayPort or USB tunnelling).
This should fix the current mess of incompatibility, right?
So far USB-C has been worsening the problem it attempted to solve. Yes we finally have a unified connector, but the protocols are still all at war, and you can no longer trust that something works just cause the port fits. It took a lot of research into docks and $180 to give my 2016 MBP roughly the ports my 2015 one has, and they're still glitchy, plus for whatever reason DP<->HDMI adaptors don't work with it. Nearly accidentally bought one that used DisplayLink, which is trash. Oh well, it's progress.
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A USB-C 'hub' for $29 has more than what the pre-TB3 MBP15 had (excluding the TB2, because, well you have TB3 now)
I was excited about "external everything" until I remembered how darn easy it is to just install stuff into my tower and have it work at full speed without limitations. Gotta just wait for the mainstream PC market to catch up.
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It has them. Whether they work as intended is a different matter. I dropped the company money on an expensive dock cause I had already wasted enough of their money on dongles that glitch out too much or have too many limitations to be relied upon.
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The average consumer needs their keyboard and mouse to work basically all the time, and the BT keyboards/mice always have some problem. People also have trouble pairing those vs just plugging in a USB dongle. Hence why most wireless keyboards and mice use a dongle. Just sucks if you lose it.
For video games, the BT latency is longer enough to matter, but idc about that.
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Can you at least see the differences? Then for each difference tell us why you don't care about it.
A bit better security, support for newer USB devices at full speed/capabilities, and more downstream TB ports are probably the big ones
It's mostly about higher bandwidth ceilings, so if your setup already works, it doesn't really change anything. It doesn't reduce energy.
I think so. It appears both Tiger Lake-H and Rocket Lake-H will support TB4, so no matter which Apple uses, it'll support that.
(I don't think an Apple Silicon-based MBP is likely this year. But I could be wrong.)
Thanks, wth did we just watch? 😂 Appreciate posting this chart to help disambiguate Intel's confusing video.
That said, even the above chart contains misleading information.
Firstly 2m cable for TB3 do exist... using one right now. Yes, these are active cables and more expensive, but then if they wanted to say TB4 now supports passive 2m cables, then say that. Instead it says the cable is "Universal", which could mean many things.
Secondly under the title "Maximum Performance" for TB3 on this chart says 16Gb/s, where in reality TB3 is in fact 32gbps (8gbps is reserved for video). Hence, there is no speed (data rate) difference between an SSD connected to TB3 vs TB4.
Quite honestly, DMA protection, Wake/Sleep support and and extra port should qualify as a minor version bump eg TB3.1. Many of us expected 80gbps or something more exciting. Instead it's rather underwhelming. Optics are probably not doing Intel any favors in the perception they're stagnating.
I think the cable is active and supports all the signal types. Only the capabilities of the cable matters though. Being active or inactive mattered for TB3 because "active" meant that you couldn't use it for USB 3.1 gen 2 connection.
The chart says that minimum TB3 requirements allowed computers to provide the Thunderbolt 3 controller with 2 lanes of PCIe 3.0. The minimum for TB4 will not allow that.
The maximum is the same for TB3 and TB4 - except that video shows transfer rate of 3000 MB/s for Thunderbolt 4 where Thunderbolt 3 was always limited to around 22 Gb/s (2750 MB/s). So there might be a minor performance improvement?
Hmm that doesn't sound right. I'm using the new 2 meter Apple Pro TB3 cable.
According to Apple, it's an active TB3 cable that supports USB 3.1 Gen 2
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That's a fair point. You're right. The chart is a referring to minimum performance increase.
This honestly seems kind of theoretical though and still feels kinda confusing. Non-enthusiasts could quite easily get the wrong impression, as there's no reason to believe there will be much (if any) real world improvement in actual data rates. It really seems to be upping a requirement with little to no speed increase, yet trying to spin it as this shiny new thing.
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