Intel Switch sucks -REALLY

Danzsupreme

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 15, 2005
43
0
I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed. I remember when everything switched to powermac so i had to get rid of my LC II to get a new $5000 8500 powermac machine. Not to say it was a def. upgrade but the 8500 needed all new software and upgrades and it only lasted 3 years until the G3 came out and made my computer completely obsolete.

Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.
 

Lunja

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2005
278
0
Lincoln UK
You should be fine for a while. OSX 10.5 should be out halfway throught the transition to Intel, so it'll work on PPC and Intel no probs. Most of the major software writers are now writing 'Universal binaries', so they'll work on both platforms. Your PB will still be a great machine in five years' time, so don't sweat it.

There's loads of threads explaining the whole transition, so have a browse. It'll put your mind at rest :)
 

punkbass25

macrumors member
May 16, 2005
90
0
your machine wont just all of a sudden be dead in three years. everything it can do now it will continue to be able to do 3, 5, maybe even 10 years from now, yes eventually you will not be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest system, but that wont be till atLEAST 10.7 which is quite a ways away. and until that happens everything for you will continue to function exactly the same. you wont notice any diffrence when teh intel macs start rolling off the line.

its not like if in three eyars 10.7 comes out and it no longer supports powerPC you'll go to start your xcomputer the day after its released and it will just sit there and go, hey buddy get with the times i dont work anymore.

i've got some machines that only run 9.2.2 and they still work great! so i cant use them to run photoshop, or safari, big deal. i can still use itunes check email and all sorts of other menial tasks on it.

and if your one who always has to have the latest and greatest, youll be upgrading much more often then every three years. so i really dont see the big deal
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,708
4,274
"Between the Hedges"
Danzsupreme said:
I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.
LOL, good luck!
Its a computer, not a car...
Computer years are worse than dog years
10 years is an eternity in the computer arena

Your machine will always do what it does now, but improvements involve change, both in software and hardware. Holding back innovation because of the pain it causes isn't the answer.

I think think the hoopla is much ado about nothing. While the change may not be exactly seamless, it probably won't be much worse than the change to OS 7 or OS X, or the change from Motorola to PPC.

I always stay with what I have until I can't be productive anymore, then I buy. My PowerMac clone lasted me about 7 years running OS 7 and 8 before I finally bought an iMac.

You may not always have the latest and greatest, but nobody does 6 months after they buy, much less 10 years.

LOL

Woof, Woof - Dawg
 

Hattig

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2003
1,429
47
London, UK
I expect OS X 10.5 and 10.6 will be available in PowerPC versions, which should be into 2008, and I don't really see them stopping compiling for PowerPC after that because they'll want to keep their options open.

Applications are easy to port, and will come in both PowerPC and x86 versions in the same package due to Mac OS X's capability to have multiple different binaries in an application. It should also provide an impetus to people using the old APIs to finally get their code up to date.

Why should your laptop become obsolete? It will fall behind the curve of course, but all hardware does that! It will still be usable and as you bought it you clearly needed it now, so it was a good purchase. I'm getting an iBook when they are updated, even though the next update will be PowerPC, and my previous laptop was a PII 266!

In the long run, the actual processor used by the Mac will not be an issue. The software and the design are what make a Mac these days, not the processor. Whilst I am sad that PowerPC is being dropped because I think it is technically superior at the design and ISA level, if it isn't getting enough development then it makes sense to switch to a new architecture that will gain performance/low price/low power usage.
 

James L

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
850
1
Danzsupreme said:
Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.
Three things:

1) Apple will support both processors in OSX for a long while yet.


2) It is very easy for developers to compile their apps for BOTH Intel and PPC in the same compile, and to produce both versions on the same disc. The amount of extra work required on their part is not huge.

Go here:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/

And watch from about the 30 minute mark on. Especially around the 32 minute mark. Apple will be supporting both processors for a while yet, and once the initial conversion is done it is easy for developers to support both chips on the same disc. You will put the disc in your computer, hit install, and it will decide what to load on your system.


3) The sky is not falling, as much as some Intel haters would like everyone to think!
 

Brother Michael

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2004
717
0
MacDawg said:
LOL, good luck!
Its a computer, not a car...
Computer years are worse than dog years
10 years is an eternity in the computer arena
My Mac is 4 years old.

My parents had a computer that lasted them 6 or 7 years (we got it in 97 or 98)

Mike
 

Lunja

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2005
278
0
Lincoln UK
Sorry, just to clarify...

Some people are mentioning 10.6, but I'd heard that after 10.5 we'd get to OS XI...

Has anyone else heard this?
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,708
4,274
"Between the Hedges"
Brother Michael said:
My Mac is 4 years old.

My parents had a computer that lasted them 6 or 7 years (we got it in 97 or 98)

Mike
Not saying it won't work 10 years from now. The components may still function, and it will still run all of the software I was using at the time. My Mac II still works running System 7 and my PowerMac clone still runs System 8, I just don't use them anymore because I can be more productive on my iMac.

At some point the upgrade curve becomes too steep and the technology advances so far that you want the new advantages. Some people make a move quicker than others. My point is... keep what you have as long as you can be productive (probably 3-5 years max for most people), and then buy as much computer as you can reasonably afford.

Woof, Woof - Dawg
 

kretzy

macrumors 604
Sep 11, 2004
7,924
0
Canberra, Australia
Relax

Just relax a bit mate.....Apple will continue supporting all of their machines long into the future, as they do currently. Your PB will still be strong for a long time. Just look at all the ppl still loving their G3s, which are years old!

Read some of the many posts re the whole "transitional period", you'll feel better. ;)
 

cube

macrumors P6
May 10, 2004
16,432
4,438
James L said:
2) It is very easy for developers to compile their apps for BOTH Intel and PPC in the same compile, and to produce both versions on the same disc. The amount of extra work required on their part is not huge.
QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.
 

alexeismertin

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2005
240
0
Bristol, UK
x86 vs PPC - THE REAL COST

This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?
 

Hattig

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2003
1,429
47
London, UK
cube said:
QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.
A lot of the QA would be platform agnostic however, and there will still be a very large installed user base of PowerPC machines until 2008/2009 at the very least. Maybe PowerPC binaries will fall behind or be "at your own risk" by 2010, but that's a long way away at the moment so lets not bother discussing it.
 

Hattig

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2003
1,429
47
London, UK
alexeismertin said:
This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?
They'll have the Rosetta translation engine for PowerPC binaries remember.

Also applications will be shipped with both versions on the same disc because of the way Mac OS X fat binaries work.
 

atszyman

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2003
2,442
1
The Dallas 'burbs
cube said:
QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.
I don't think it will be as fast as you think. I wouldn't expect any developers to drop PPC support until at least 2010-2015 since you need to wait for the Intel Macs to penetrate the market. Developers won't switch until the majority of Macs in the field are Intel based which will probably take at least 5 years from the complete transition at Apple. Many will probably go longer as a precaution in case Apple decides to switch back.

It brings up another interesting question. Is compiling for Intel only even an option in Xcode 2.1? The check box mentioned in the keynote was to compile for Intel AND PPC not either/or.

This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?
All of your current software will work, albeit through emulation using Rosetta.
 

kjr39

macrumors 6502
Nov 26, 2004
374
3
Danzsupreme said:
Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).
That is an interesting definition of "runs strong" you have there... :p

And, FWIW, I am part of the don't buy camp.
 

alexeismertin

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2005
240
0
Bristol, UK
money makin'

This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?
 

Hattig

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2003
1,429
47
London, UK
alexeismertin said:
This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?
It'll probably be the same cost as the upgrade you'd be paying for anyway. Instead of being a PowerPC to PowerPC upgrade, it'll be a PowerPC to PPC&Intel fat binary upgrade.

I fail to see what the problem is. If Rosetta eventually runs at even 50% of the processors speed, with a dual-core 2GHz laptop the performance will be at least 1GHz G4 standard. Apple say it could be 80% of the speed ...
 

baummer

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2005
949
27
Southern California
alexeismertin said:
This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?
That's kind of the point...so you can continue your usage uninterrupted.

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?
Your existing system won't be affected. Software will work on both platforms thanks to universal binary compiling.

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?
I am. This means so many things, including better laptops. But it's obvious no one is going to disuade you from your negative position on what I feel is a positive move for Apple. As others have said, they sky is not falling.
 

michaelrjohnson

macrumors 68020
Aug 9, 2000
2,174
1
53132
Danzsupreme said:
Original Post
You're failing to see the beauty behind OS X. It has been built from the beginning to be processor *independant*. That means that OS X doesn't care what processor you have. Universal binaries will be in use for future programs, for all exisiting apps, there is Rosetta. Rosetta is real-time conversion of the PPC binaries to x86 binaries. In 4 years, they could switch back to PPC, and the transition would be fluid... transparent to users. (Just like this one will be)

  • You *won't* have to get a new computer when Apple ships x86 Macs.
  • Your old software *will* work, as long as it works in OS X.
  • There are no "hidden costs", and Apple does not *require* you to ever purchase a new machine... unless you want to use the latest and greatest always. Then it's your own fault. It's the same for any PC user.
 

slu

macrumors 68000
Sep 15, 2004
1,636
106
Buffalo
alexeismertin said:
This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?
Do you ever upgrade your SW? When the new versions of whatever you use come out, do you ever buy them? If so, then this statement makes no sense, because in two years when the next version of Photoshop or whatever comes out, you would have upgraded anyway and the cost would be the same no matter what CPU is inside.

I am getting so sick of the argument. Most people that are worried about this are people that generally always have the latest versions of their apps anyway and the next version of everything will have universial binaries.
 

notjustjay

macrumors 603
Sep 19, 2003
6,040
111
Canada, eh?
A laptop?

10 years?

Wow, you're very optimistic. I've never kept any (Windows or Mac) longer than 3 or 4 years. My oldest desktop is from 1998, and even that's been relegated to a server-type machine running in the basement.
 

tsk

macrumors 6502a
Jan 14, 2004
642
0
Wisconsin
Danzsupreme said:
I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed.

....

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.
Honestly, if you're the type who wants the system to last a long time before you upgrade, I think you'll be fine. I think the people who got hurt more are the ones who plan to resell in a year or something. You'll have plenty of support for say 4 years with apps. However, if in 6-9 months you were planning on selling to upgrade, I think your resale would be in the toilet.

Edit: I only say "4 years" just because to me that's an eternity for a laptop and I think by then its well past the need to upgrade. Apple may well support the PPC for much longer than that.