Thunderbolt is currently limited to 10Gbps per channel, which is much less of what DisplayPort 1.2 requires.
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Intel to Support Both USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt in 2012 'Ivy Bridge' Platform
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Thunderbolt is currently limited to 10Gbps per channel, which is much less of what DisplayPort 1.2 requires.
Thunderbolt will never replace USB because they serve different functions. You will never see low-bandwidth devices such as keyboard/mice/USB stick using thunderbolt because it doesn't make sense.
The real question that I haven't seen anyone ask, is will this be Intel only or will other chipsets/manufacturers support it as well.
Also I don't know if anyone mentioned it but one of the reasons Firewire never took off was because of royalty fees that need to be paid for implementing it. Thunderbolt has no royalties on it and this should help drive adoption.
From the looks of it Thunderbolt will be able to replace eSata, Firewire, and maybe Expresscards.
The real question that I haven't seen anyone ask, is will this be Intel only or will other chipsets/manufacturers support it as well.
Also I don't know if anyone mentioned it but one of the reasons Firewire never took off was because of royalty fees that need to be paid for implementing it. Thunderbolt has no royalties on it and this should help drive adoption.
From the looks of it Thunderbolt will be able to replace eSata, Firewire, and maybe Expresscards.
Wait, you mean you didn't literally mean the ThunderBolt would be exclusively Macs only forever and ever and ever?
Dammit man, not everyone on these boards understands subtlety and context. If you are going to say something, don't be subtle. Spell it out so everyone can understand you. Otherwise we end up with some short-bus kids thinking everyone is picking a fight with them and posting worthless links with irrelevant info.
I think it is too early to really get a read one way or the other. I am hopeful that TB will take off. But this time I think it will be more the drive and peripherals vendors that will make or break it. If they can do a USB3 drive and it will work with any system that has USB3 and/or TB, why would the also do a TB version? I am not saying they won't, but there is certainly an incentive to drop the extra sku and investment that a TB version would require.
It appears to be Intel only for now and it is a rather large controller compared to USB 3.0 ones.
Intel gave many other vendors a field day for profits by not supporting USB 3.0 on their PCH. Though this did drive boards costs up and certain vendors preferred to wait for Intel to simply include support. To be honest, it only appears to be Apple.
Fixed just for you.
LOL, yet here you are claiming Thunderbolt is DOA. Hilarious.
Again, for those with reading difficulties, I made no such claim. I did agree with a post that implied it might be relegated to being considered Mac only. I'll still agree that might be what happens. I hope not, but I hoped FW would be successful too.
I am pretty sure a google search will find some adult-ed courses that might be helpful for you.
Oh well, there goes all my enthusiasm... Thunderbolt is dead.
USB 3 is slower, uglier, more gummed up with kruft but the masses are comfortable with it so everything will use it. Thunderbolt will go the way of FireWire.
Ugh.
USB 3 is slower, uglier, more gummed up with kruft but the masses are comfortable with it so everything will use it. Thunderbolt will go the way of FireWire.
Ugh.
"You mean like FW was faster than USB and USB2? And yes, it will work with any USB device. You think that is an incentive for drive vendors to invest in it? Really?"
^ You implying it will be DOA. For someone criticizing reading comprehension I sure have to do a lot of work for you.
Here's the gist of your worthless posts:
Insult
Insult
Strawman argument
Insult
What a joke.
It's pretty funny that people think that TB is designed to replace USB and therefore competing against it. Saying that is like suggesting that PCIe and DP are competing against USB, because that's what TB is. If your computer doesn't have USB 3.0 and you want it, what do you plug the USB 3.0 controller card into? PCIe of course... how is USB 3.0 competing with the thing it plugs into???
Intel announcing that their future chipsets will support TB and USB 3.0 is great news. It makes a monitor (connected to a computer through a single cable) with a USB 3.0 dock possible and it means all Intel based PCs will ship with TB standard.
TB isn't there to replace USB mice. It's there to provide high speed access to raid arrays, enable universal docking stations with a full array of ports (think USB, eSata, HDMI, audio, etc) connected to a computer through a single cable, and allow laptops to better utilize external graphics cards. The possibilities of extending the PCIe bus outside of the computer are limitless, I can't wait to see what people dream up (especially as speeds ramp up).
USB and TB are largely complimentary. One exception is external hard drives of course and TB is far superior in that aspect (theres a reason raid controllers are plugged into PCIe). Why people are opposed to this is beyond me.
Intel announcing that their future chipsets will support TB and USB 3.0 is great news. It makes a monitor (connected to a computer through a single cable) with a USB 3.0 dock possible and it means all Intel based PCs will ship with TB standard.
TB isn't there to replace USB mice. It's there to provide high speed access to raid arrays, enable universal docking stations with a full array of ports (think USB, eSata, HDMI, audio, etc) connected to a computer through a single cable, and allow laptops to better utilize external graphics cards. The possibilities of extending the PCIe bus outside of the computer are limitless, I can't wait to see what people dream up (especially as speeds ramp up).
USB and TB are largely complimentary. One exception is external hard drives of course and TB is far superior in that aspect (theres a reason raid controllers are plugged into PCIe). Why people are opposed to this is beyond me.
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I believe we are waiting to see a wider selection of Macs with Thunderbolt support.
I do not recall many buyers clamoring to see if an OEM decided to cough up the extra $2-5 on a controller and then turn around to sell it at $10 over the non-USB 3.0 board.
I find that Thunderbolt support does not register to the masses as well. So it is up to us, enthusiasts, to provide the wisdom on a port that the majority are never going to use.
So is TB actually included in the chipset or does it still need a separate controller? Sandy Bridge and Intel 6-series chipsets already support Thunderbolt "capability". In my ears this sounds like TB will not be included in the chipset which makes this piece of news more or less useless. USB 3.0 support has been known for months now.
I was asking you what I thought would be an easy question for you to answer. I'll ask again, it will work with any USB device, do you think that is an incentive for drive vendors to invest in it? I'll wait.
And I've posted no strawman arguments. I didn't insult you either. It was an observation. Reading difficulty is a problem, sure, but it is a a challenge that many people face. I am hopeful that those with this limitation can better themselves perhaps by taking some courses. Dialog is always better with someone that understands and can follow the discussion.
To properly recap, I believe it could be a repeat of FW and it could end up being considered 'Mac only'. I know it is subtle difference from a claim it will be DOA (well, subtle like a baseball bat, I guess), but it shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand. You are really, truly, picking the wrong fight. I think we actually agree on a lot of points. I'd like it to succeed, but can see things that might be obstacles. You don't see those as obstacles or perhaps don't see them at all. But, really, stop arguing against things I never said.
This almost identically mirrors USB/FW. The reason FW sputtered (and it did start to take off for a brief while) was USB2. USB2 isn't at all designed to handle the applications that FW does, but it's not a coincidence that USB2 was designed for raw bandwidth just greater than FW and that it was marketed as such, ignoring usability issues and true throughput.
USB2 won because it was almost good enough, vendors didn't want a second connector and all the power supply that went with FireWire, and the masses were never educated on what the limitations of USB were.
The original USB was just fine for mice and keyboards. USB2 was meant to undermine FireWire, and USB3 was meant to kill it. USB3 is an attempt to be one bus for all purposes, just like Thunderbolt is. You don't need two universal serial busses, and the buying public will stick with the logo they're most comfortable with.
Yeah, it is. USB 3.0 is not that big of a step up from USB 2.0 so those that really need the extra bandwidth will not bother with it and go straight to Thunderbolt. Simple as that. Leave your rinky dink Toys R Us low bandwidth peripherals to USB and leave the big boy peripherals to Thunderbolt.
Sure you have, you've completely ignored my other post then changed the subject to reading comprehension to smokescreen the topic at hand. Oh and give me a break with your non-insult ********. You have been making jabs about short buses and taking comprehension classes over a Thunderbolt and USB discussion. If anything you are the one that needs to take some classes, maybe not on comprehension but I'm sure you get the idea.
Actually let's do a real recap:
You agree with a claim that Thunderbolt will be Mac only
I respond with an article that simply states it won't be
You respond with the reason it won't take off as manufacturers will have to add it separately
Econgeek tells you it's a completely different scenario because they don't need a license through Apple
I tell you Intel will be supporting both
You then start with your strawman argument and ignore a portion of what I stated
You also follow that up with some insults
I respond with video proof of why Thunderbolt will be popular with many devices
You ignore then respond with more insults
I have a Rev D MacBook Air (11") and also think the Ivy Bridge will be a worthwhile upgrade. There is now no reason why that one shouldn't have USB 3.0, or Thunderbolt, plus Ivy Bridge, unlike Sandy Bridge, will have a GPU as fast as the NVIDIA 320m.
Honestly, can you try to post without arguing against claims I never made? That is at least 3 times now and it shows a lack of honesty or reading ability. I am not sure which.
I never said it was going to Mac only (though you have accused me of that twice). I agreed with the insinuation that it could be. I never said manufacturers would have to add it separately. I did say that the article you posted said only that it would be available to all and that it didn't say all would add it. Mainly, I said that, because you know, the article doesn't actually say that.
I think we are done. No point in debating someone that doesn't understand what he is reading and also makes up things to reply to. Arguing against someone that uses strawman arguments or misses common subtleties in language is bad enough. Arguing against someone that is making up things to argue against is pointless.
amen. As well as official support for opencl.
A lot of us are thinking along the same lines for the next air update. So when will ivy bridge be released?
2012
The above text contains:
Strawman argument/claiming what I said wasn't true without providing any proof/Insults
Here's another recap for you:
Person 1: Thunderbolt = Mac Only
You: Bingo
Me: Post to an article showing that it won't be Mac only
You: Claim you were talking metaphorically to save your ass
Myself and Econgeek: Explain to you why what you saved your ass with won't be true
You: Go on a rampage of insults
Pot, meet kettle.
I am pretty sure the current Intel boards require a separate Thunderbolt controller chip. Ivy Bridge seems to be pulling that chip into the ICH. Same for USB3.
But FW isn't mac only by choice or need. Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and others all offers boards with FW. It was a common feature for motherboard manufacturers for some time. Will TB be included in their low end boards? More then likely not but from mid tier to high end boards will have it.