Intel to Support Both USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt in 2012 'Ivy Bridge' Platform

[ravenvii]

Well that settles it, I know what I'm waiting for.

 

[Eidorian]

But FW isn't mac only by choice or need. Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and others all offers boards with FW. It was a common feature for motherboard manufacturers for some time. Will TB be included in their low end boards? More then likely not but from mid tier to high end boards will have it.

This sadly reinforces the "enthusiast" market looking for features.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Well, it would surprise me. USB3.0 and Thunderbolt will come included in Intel''s Ivy Bridge. Apple would have to add more hardware and disable USB 3.0 to make it 2.0 only. Makes zero cents.

Who are you to comment on the potential profitability of said move?

 

[Joshuarocks]

One word: Who cares about USB 3.0? I have nothing anyway which can make use of USB 3.. nor do I have thunderbolt anything.

 

[agmaster]

I hope USB 3 just...DIES!

I really hope Intel delays USB 3. I have a mid 2007 MBP, even though I use FW800, I have resorted to using my ExpressCard slot with an eSata adapter which is even faster than FW800. If anything, the difference will be made with the companies who make the external HDD to implement thunderbolt technology into their products. I just hate usb in general, I only use it for flash drives and my mouse.

 

[SilianRail]

in all seriousness people, this thing

is going to scare people off...

Hideous

 

[cere]

The above text contains:
Strawman argument/claiming what I said wasn't true without providing any proof/Insults

Here's another recap for you:
Person 1: Thunderbolt = Mac Only
You: Bingo
Me: Post to an article showing that it won't be Mac only
You: Claim you were talking metaphorically to save your ass
Myself and Econgeek: Explain to you why what you saved your ass with won't be true
You: Go on a rampage of insults

Pot, meet kettle.

I'll respond to you one last time, to try to clarify your confusion.

Strawman argument/claiming what I said wasn't true without providing any proof/Insults No. You are confusing these with facts. I've pointed out to you each time you have made something up in my reply.

Person 1: Thunderbolt = Mac Only True. In the same way FW is 'Mac only'. You perhaps don't understand the difference between speaking literally and effectively. Effectively, FW is considered 'Mac only' yet is available to any vendor that wants to implement it. But the lack of interest has resulted in it being considered 'Mac only'. Not literally, but effectively. See the difference?
You: Bingo True.
Me: Post to an article showing that it won't be Mac only False. You posted an article that said others could use it. Nowhere in your article did it say others would use it. I explained this to you, but again, you missed the point. Firewire isn't literally Mac only either.
You: Claim you were talking metaphorically to save your ass False. I don't think you understand what a metaphor is, because you aren't using it right. I claimed, and the OP later explained, it was meant, in context, effectively Mac only. Seriously, this is highschool english.
Myself and Econgeek: Explain to you why what you saved your ass with won't be trueFalse. Econogeek did well in explaining how the situations differ. You explained nothing.
You: Go on a rampage of insults False. No insults. Just observations. If you made a lot of spelling errors and I pointed them out, that would be an observation, not an insult. You both misunderstood posts and made up claims of statements that did not exist. I pointed that out. If you felt insulted, you are being overly sensitive.

 

[cere]

But FW isn't mac only by choice or need. Abit, Asus, Gigabyte and others all offers boards with FW. It was a common feature for motherboard manufacturers for some time. Will TB be included in their low end boards? More then likely not but from mid tier to high end boards will have it.

Very true, but in the end, USB2 won out.

 

[AndroidfoLife]

Apple should switch to AMD.

Amd has been supporting 3.0 for a while now. My motherboard has it and it was made in march of last year

 

[cere]

I really hope Intel delays USB 3. I have a mid 2007 MBP, even though I use FW800, I have resorted to using my ExpressCard slot with an eSata adapter which is even faster than FW800. If anything, the difference will be made with the companies who make the external HDD to implement thunderbolt technology into their products. I just hate usb in general, I only use it for flash drives and my mouse.

Agreed. Concurrent support will favour USB3 due to familiarity. Device vendors will be the key here.

 

[nick9191]

Why doesn't Intel just not support USB 3 and allow Thunderbolt to be used on other manufacturers chipsets? I mean I'm all for competition, but if one port is obviously superior but could potentially fail due to lack of adoption..

 

[dime21]

What about the MacBook and MacBook Air?

you missed the point. entirely. it flew right over your head like a bird.

 

[iDemiurge]

Will USB3 keep the little bears warmer?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/08/thanko-usb-bear-gloves-dont-inhibit-your-typing-keep-palms-toa/

 

[asdf542]

No. You are confusing these with facts. I've pointed out to you each time you have made something up in my reply.

LOL, and yet you still haven't given any examples.

Person 1: Thunderbolt = Mac Only True. In the same way FW is 'Mac only'. You perhaps don't understand the difference between speaking literally and effectively. Effectively, FW is considered 'Mac only' yet is available to any vendor that wants to implement it. But the lack of interest has resulted in it being considered 'Mac only'. Not literally, but effectively. See the difference?

Right, and no where was this specified at this point in the conversation. You are simply fitting it in for your argument. FireWire was not mentioned in the original post.

You: Bingo True.
Me: Post to an article showing that it won't be Mac only False. You posted an article that said others could use it. Nowhere in your article did it say others would use it. I explained this to you, but again, you missed the point. Firewire isn't literally Mac only either.

I knew what article I posted and I knew what it contained and it served its purpose perfectly fine. I don't need to show you who's going to use it because it's going to be native in Ivy Bridge ALONGSIDE USB 3 as the title would suggest. There's no reason NOT to use it as the superior IO and it's already there. This isn't rocket science.

You: Claim you were talking metaphorically to save your ass False. I don't think you understand what a metaphor is, because you aren't using it right. I claimed, and the OP later explained, it was meant, in context, effectively Mac only. Seriously, this is highschool english.

Wow, what a surprise. The OP decided to choose the route that served him better for the discussion.

Myself and Econgeek: Explain to you why what you saved your ass with won't be trueFalse. Econogeek did well in explaining how the situations differ. You explained nothing.

I explained why ThunderBolt wouldn't be another FireWire. You weren't having it and decided to pull strawman attacks.

You: Go on a rampage of insults False. No insults. Just observations. If you made a lot of spelling errors and I pointed them out, that would be an observation, not an insult. You both misunderstood posts and made up claims of statements that did not exist. I pointed that out. If you felt insulted, you are being overly sensitive.

Pointing out spelling errors and telling someone that they belong on the short bus are two different things. Sounds like you have some self-esteem issues if you feel the need to tell someone they're mentally retarded over an IO discussion.

 

[paradox00]

Very true, but in the end, USB2 won out.

Cere, on page one, you DID state that TB would (a) be mac only and (b) die and you've been backtracking terribly ever since.

When you make a statement such as "unfortunately, also bingo" you are giving your full endorsement to that statement and you have accepted that as your own opinion with no ifs, ands or buts. In case you've forgotten, you gave your full endorsement to this quote:

USB3=native to all platforms
TB=Mac Only

Sounds like TB just died.

Since then, you've argued that what you really meant was that PC manufacturers wont support it (without proof to back up your claims) and made poor comparisons to Firewire.

Let's compare the two for a second:

FW was pushed by Apple
TB is being pushed by Apple, but more importantly Intel (whose chips power most PCs)

FW had a high per port licensing cost
TB uses a royalty free port and support will be built into future Intel chipsets (making PC implementation virtually inevitable)

FW was slower than USB on paper, but faster in reality
TB blows USB 3.0 out of the water, both on paper and in reality

Why do you keep insisting they are the same and will share the same fate? On top of that, as I mentioned earlier (and no one, including yourself has attempted to refute) TB isn't even a direct competitor with USB, it's more of a complimentary technology. You've done nothing in this thread but blow hot air.

 

[SilianRail]

Using the 3.0 drive, the 10-gigabyte folder transferred to the U.S.B. 3.0 drive in 6 minutes, 31 seconds (write speed). The U.S.B. 2.0 drive took 22 minutes, 14 seconds to copy the same 10-gig folder.

In other words, the U.S.B. 3.0 drive copied the data roughly 3.5 times faster than the U.S.B. 2.0 drive. That’s far short of the touted 10X performance gains, but it’s an improvement that you’ll definitely notice.

In my informal tests, the difference in read speeds was not so dramatic. The USB 3.0 drive transferred the 10-gigabyte folder to the desktop in 4 minutes, 13 seconds, while the USB 2.0 drive transferred the same folder in 5 minutes, 14 seconds.

http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/testing-real-world-speed-of-usb-3-0-hard-drives/

That is horrible scaling given that USB 2.0 lasted 10 years.

 

[infidel69]

Glad to hear it

Im really stoked to see the Ivy Bridge benchmarks...the i72600k blew my mind I feel bad for the enthusiast folks who bought a 980x

Enthusiasts had the 980 for atleast 6 months now and it's still faster than any sb cpu. Alot of those guys already had x58 mobo's anyway. Now if you purchased a brand new 12 core Mac Pro then then I agree with you.

 

[Eidorian]

After thinking about this some more, I have come to believe this is just damage control over AMD's recent chipset certification from the USB-IF.

They are just reassuring their support of USB 3.0. I still believe that Thunderbolt will require its additional controller and will not be supported directly on the chipset for Panther Point. (Intel 7 Series, excluding X79)

 

[jwdsail]

Die die die!!!!!

USB must DIE! Die die die!!! Kill it! Kill it dead! DEAD!!!!!


Not that I'm bitter about slow as molasses in MN in January transfer speeds or anything...

 

[AppleScruff1]

This is great news! One of the ReadyNAS I didn't buy a Sandy Bridge MBP is that I want USB3.

Maybe Apple still won't include it.

Well, it would surprise me. USB3.0 and Thunderbolt will come included in Intel''s Ivy Bridge. Apple would have to add more hardware and disable USB 3.0 to make it 2.0 only. Makes zero cents.

And that's exactly the reason they would do it.

There is no way Apple would deliberately block/not support USB3 on Mac's is there, to force Apple uses to have to buy Thunderbolt only peripherals and not be able to use cheaper USB3 items?

They would never do that would they?

They might, you never know. Stubornness knows no bounds.

The PC industry is plagued with lowest common denominator, low cost crap.

Apple and Intel are trying to move forward. We should support that.

Did you know that an Apple computer is a pc?

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

This may seem a bit catty, but that USB 3 logo is one of the ugliest, most amateurish attempts at graphic art I have seen out of a major operation in a very long time... Guter Gott!

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Well, it would surprise me. USB3.0 and Thunderbolt will come included in Intel''s Ivy Bridge. Apple would have to add more hardware and disable USB 3.0 to make it 2.0 only. Makes zero cents.

They wouldn't have to add more hardware. USB3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0. They would only have to disable 3.0 protocols somehow. Given they need a driver to make the hardware work this wouldn't be at all difficult, IMO; they have shipped iPhones with 802.11N hardware and limited it to G protocol/speeds so they already have a history of doing such things so I wouldn't put it past them. I KNOW if they got Blu-Ray drives somehow included with their hardware (i.e. only thing available), they would STILL not support it except in DVD/CD mode. Apple will do what they think is best for them NO MATTER WHAT. They don't give a flying rat's hind end about what the consumer wants. Steve thinks he knows better than anyone and he has a whole army of groupies telling him he's right so how on earth could he ever imagine otherwise?

 

[tbobmccoy]

They wouldn't have to add more hardware. USB3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0. They would only have to disable 3.0 protocols somehow or artificially speed limit it to 2.0 speeds. I wouldn't put it past them. I KNOW if they got Blu-Ray drives somehow included with their hardware (i.e. only thing available), they would STILL not support it except in DVD/CD mode. Apple will do what they think is best for them NO MATTER WHAT. They don't give a flying rat's hind end about what the consumer wants. Steve thinks he knows better than anyone and he has a whole army of groupies telling him he's right so how on earth could he ever imagine otherwise?

I think this is a bit paranoid. Blu-ray just isn't that great of a tech for Apple to justify the increased cost of adding it to the MacBook Pro. Yes, there is some bias due to their DLC, but I doubt that's the ONLY reason blu-ray isn't available. Plus, I'd rather go without a drive period on my next MacBook. Give me the space savings, extra battery life, etc and let me have a thunderbolt drive, since I never use the drive outside of... installing software, and even that's rare these days.

 

[zepharus]

Makes zero cents.

Does it make any Dollars?

 

[MattInOz]

Thunderbolt will never replace USB because they serve different functions. You will never see low-bandwidth devices such as keyboard/mice/USB stick using thunderbolt because it doesn't make sense.

Yes but why would these devices move to USB3 either?
Most are happy on USB1 or 2. with no demand for 3.
If they have the market for features then Wireless is the most attractive up sell for most of them over faster wires. So Low bandwidth devices are either going to stay USB 2 or go wireless.

Low bandwidth is really a moot point, it's high bandwidth that drives wired connections.