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socialwill

macrumors regular
Jul 14, 2014
208
379
The update in 16” MBP is not a huge improvement in screen resolution and that's unacceptable for over a $2000 device.

True but pretty much everyone that has a Dell or Lenovo with 4K screens is not happy with battery life. Sure, HDR would be good, but I don’t want a laptop with 3-4 hours battery just for a 4K screen.

Maybe the micro LED will help with a bigger screen update, but I think that is 2021 not this year.
 

PostApple2016BrainWash

macrumors 6502
Nov 11, 2019
472
178
True but pretty much everyone that has a Dell or Lenovo with 4K screens is not happy with battery life. Sure, HDR would be good, but I don’t want a laptop with 3-4 hours battery just for a 4K screen.

Maybe the micro LED will help with a bigger screen update, but I think that is 2021 not this year.

Regarding the battery life, it won't dramatically reduce but more or less the same with up to 12 hours of use on the 4K display on the XPS 13. Apple needs to stop using battery life as an excuse to put subpar screen resolution on the 14” MBP, 16” MBP in 2020.
 
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cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
True but pretty much everyone that has a Dell or Lenovo with 4K screens is not happy with battery life. Sure, HDR would be good, but I don’t want a laptop with 3-4 hours battery just for a 4K screen.

Maybe the micro LED will help with a bigger screen update, but I think that is 2021 not this year.
The rumors are miniLED, not microLED.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Regarding the battery life, it won't dramatically reduce but more or less the same with up to 12 hours of use on the 4K display on the XPS 13. Apple needs to stop using battery life as an excuse to put subpar screen resolution on the 14” MBP, 16” MBP in 2020.
Apple blamed screen resolution on battery life? Where was that, I must have missed it...

Apple actually uses higher pixel densities on their Retina laptops than they do their desktop Retina displays, whether that’s the 4K 21.5” or 5K 27” iMacs, or the 31.5” XDR.

In any case, the ppi is in the range of 218-227, regardless of resolution.
 
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chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,533
11,284
An update with these slightly faster chips or a worthwhile update? @chucker23n1 follows the Intel roadmap leaks, maybe he’ll chime in.

As far as "worthwhile update" goes: to be fair, we just got a massive update on basically everything but the CPU in November.

On the CPU, well…

Comet Lake-H was just announced a week or so ago. It brings Wi-Fi 6 (though I’m unsure how relevant this is; it seems Apple uses third-party Wi-Fi anyway), slightly faster RAM (can’t hurt), and slightly higher turbos. IOW, it’s rather boring and wasn't worth waiting for. Right now, AMD seems far more compelling for the 16-inch.

It’s possible Apple won’t bother with this update at all, especially since it already saw a major update in November.

Beyond this, around early next year, there’s two possibilities: either Intel will first ship Rocket Lake-H. That will hopefully bring Xe graphics, which could help the 16-inch switch to dedicated less often (thus saving battery life). That in turn, for Apple, could also mean the return of a pure integrated option. It will also likely bring much faster RAM, which Ice Lake already has (it’s wild how the Air cites much faster RAM than any other Mac, isn’t it?). It will likely bring PCIe 4 and Thunderbolt 4; this should break the 3 GiB/s barrier for SSDs. It might bring ten-core options. Comet Lake was originally rumored to, but only the S (desktop) variant ultimately got them. But otherwise, it’ll still be yet another Skylake++++++ CPU.

Or they could skip that. It looks like Ice Lake is finally ramping up, and as a result, they killed much of the Cascade Lake line-up on the server side in favor of going straight to Ice Lake. That’s great. If they do skip Rocket Lake-H, they could go straight to Alder Lake, and that’d be the first exciting one in a long time. Alder Lake will be 10nm, so it will bring Ice Lake to the full line-up. That means a nicer performance boost, at long last. It is also rumored to bring a big.LITTLE-like configuration in the high end: 8 fast cores, 8 slow cores. So, less power draw, more performance.
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Well, any spec bump, even if it is small, that happens 1 day after the return window on a new MPB 16' purchase, will annoy me lol

I can see that, but if you buy a Coffee Lake Refresh-H 16-inch MBP today, and Apple brings out a Comet Lake-H one just outside your return window, that's unlikely to annoy you.

(There's other specs they could bump, like Wi-Fi, or the GPU, but as far as the CPU is concerned, things will be low-key for a while.)

Unless they go AMD, anyway.
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Apple blamed screen resolution on battery life? Where was that, I must have missed it...

Apple actually uses higher pixel densities on their Retina laptops than they do their desktop Retina displays, whether that’s the 4K 21.5” or 5K 27” iMacs, or the 31.5” XDR.

In any case, the ppi is in the range of 218-227, regardless of resolution.

I do hope we'll see a 3840x2400 panel eventually.
 
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ChromeCrescendo

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2020
437
243
I can see that, but if you buy a Coffee Lake Refresh-H 16-inch MBP today, and Apple brings out a Comet Lake-H one just outside your return window, that's unlikely to annoy you.

(There's other specs they could bump, like Wi-Fi, or the GPU, but as far as the CPU is concerned, things will be low-key for a while.)

Well, WiFi 6 and a GPU bump, to me, would be worth waiting for
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,533
11,284
Well, WiFi 6 and a GPU bump, to me, would be worth waiting for

They oddly didn't do Wi-Fi 6 on the Air a few weeks ago; maybe their preferred chip supplier didn't have one yet at all, or not with a power consumption Apple was happy with. (On Macs, they seem to like Murata lately, and they don't seem to offer an ax chip at this point. But the iPhone 11 has Wi-FI 6, using what appears to be a Broadcom chip, and its power ceiling is much lower. So if they really wanted to, they could probably do it. But then why didn't the Air get it?)

GPU, I don't really know. I find AMD's GPU generations inscrutable. I think we're currently on "Navi" a.k.a. RDNA 1 and were previously on "Vega" a.k.a. GCN 5? And the 16-inch is already on Navi, and Navi's successor RDNA 2 is only announced for "2020". So my guess is not until later in the year.
 

ChromeCrescendo

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2020
437
243
They oddly didn't do Wi-Fi 6 on the Air a few weeks ago; maybe their preferred chip supplier didn't have one yet at all, or not with a power consumption Apple was happy with. (On Macs, they seem to like Murata lately, and they don't seem to offer an ax chip at this point. But the iPhone 11 has Wi-FI 6, using what appears to be a Broadcom chip, and its power ceiling is much lower. So if they really wanted to, they could probably do it. But then why didn't the Air get it?)

GPU, I don't really know. I find AMD's GPU generations inscrutable. I think we're currently on "Navi" a.k.a. RDNA 1 and were previously on "Vega" a.k.a. GCN 5? And the 16-inch is already on Navi, and Navi's successor RDNA 2 is only announced for "2020". So my guess is not until later in the year.


They could offer the 5700
Although, if they could, they would have already made it available on the Mac Pro rather than the continual "Coming Soon" label
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
The performance is not any faster and heat dissipation is not any better despite the Intel CPU is a significantly lower watt model. The based model configuration has been the standard for years from other top brand and Apple is just trying to do a catch-up in the 2020 model.
The performance is better, with the Iris Pro GPU somewhere around 80% faster. CPU comparison:

52010BEB-48E4-41DB-BF7F-5396FDD32B16.jpeg




D56FD487-CB7C-4C7B-B5DC-127FD7294301.jpeg



Also, the 2020 uses a 10W CPU (which Apple allows to consume up to 13W). The 2018 had a 7.5W CPU. So the wattage is higher, not lower.

Also, the fact is the $999 model now has 256GB, and that’s very meaningful—it saves customers $200. What PC manufacturers do or don’t do isn’t relevant to Apple’s customers, who want/need Mac.

Like I said, the $999 MacBook Pro will be Apple’s best selling Mac. (But the i5 is definitely worth $100 for anyone who can afford the upgrade.)
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The update in 16” MBP is not a huge improvement in screen resolution and that's unacceptable for over a $2000 device.
An increase in resolution was not the goal of the 16” MBP. It’s a physically larger screen, in about the same footprint. With no increase in price—and 512GB instead of 256GB SSD—the 16” is a very good upgrade over the 15”. Still priced at $2,399, where some had predicted it would be $3k, 4K or even more lol. Oh, and it now has the new scissor keyboard as well ?
 
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masterhide

macrumors newbie
Apr 20, 2020
17
9
Hi folks!
My MBP 16" just arrived few days ago, and I have 10 days ability to return it.
I just wonder, should I stay with it or return and wait new generation? I don't need a new wifi 6, but if 10'th gen CPU is more power efficient and bring more performance (with less fans noise), probably it worth it?
 

ls1dreams

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2009
629
236
Hi folks!
My MBP 16" just arrived few days ago, and I have 10 days ability to return it.
I just wonder, should I stay with it or return and wait new generation? I don't need a new wifi 6, but if 10'th gen CPU is more power efficient and bring more performance (with less fans noise), probably it worth it?

I don't think the 16" is going to be updated until fall/winter. At that point if you can get Tiger Lake it might be worth it for the intel xe graphics and av1 hardware decoding.

Even if they do update the line this June the new intel cpu is barely any different than the one in your '19 macbook. Maybe 5% faster and wi-fi 6 which won't really matter much until most devices are running it.

Depends on your old model though. At least 2015+? Could hold onto it and wait. Older than that and most laptops are horribly painful right now.
 
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PickUrPoison

macrumors G3
Sep 12, 2017
8,131
10,720
Sunnyvale, CA
Hi folks!
My MBP 16" just arrived few days ago, and I have 10 days ability to return it.
I just wonder, should I stay with it or return and wait new generation? I don't need a new wifi 6, but if 10'th gen CPU is more power efficient and bring more performance (with less fans noise), probably it worth it?
I and many others always give the same advice: if you don’t need it now, you’ll get a higher spec’ed model later... but when?

In this case, Ming Chi Kuo has said 4Q2020 for a 16” MBP with mini-LED backlighting. But that was pre-pandemic, and might be guessed to have slipped, but who knows.

Previous release was almost exactly five months ago, Nov 13. If 4th quarter was ever accurate, it might still be on track for Oct-Dec. Jan-Mar would seem possible as well; the next iPad Pro, originally rumored for Q4 as well, has recently been changed to 1Q2021. But who knows if that is indicative of schedule slips in general, so that may mean nothing to the 16” MBP schedule.

As usual, it’s really hard to know lol, it’s really just (slightly educated) guessing. Personally, I’d think 1Q2021 would be more likely than 4Q2020 but who really can predict?

The current machine is really nice and acknowledged overall to be a great release. Intel doesn’t have 10nm Series-H 45W CPUs on the roadmap for at least another 1.5 years, and the next release or two will be small improvements on the whole. A slightly higher clock speed, whatever Intel can squeeze out of 14++++. And a better version of an already great display, not sure if it’ll be more power efficient.

It really depends on whether you can last another 6-12 months without a new machine. If you don’t really need it, as always you can just wait it out and get the next model. Just realize it could be awhile, and won’t be all that much better even when it gets here. My 2¢.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,533
11,284
Hi folks!
My MBP 16" just arrived few days ago, and I have 10 days ability to return it.
I just wonder, should I stay with it or return and wait new generation? I don't need a new wifi 6, but if 10'th gen CPU is more power efficient and bring more performance (with less fans noise), probably it worth it?

Short answer is don't bother. For one, as you say, Comet Lake isn't that exciting an upgrade. And two, we don't really know if Apple will bother offering upgraded models with it at all.

The November 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro was kind of an outlier in that it shipped just half a year after the last 15-inch (which also had the same CPU, but a weaker GPU, smaller screen, worse audio, and of course the Butterfly Keyboard).

Usually, Apple only upgrades about once a year. The November release kind of threw that off, and Intel probably won't ship new CPUs by November. So if Apple skips Comet Lake-H altogether, we probably won't see any new 16-inch MacBook Pro all year (other than maybe in December?) and instead see an upgrade early next year, probably to Rocket Lake-H. That will still be on 14nm, so as far as raw CPU power goes, it won't be exciting. But it could bring various other improvements: Intel Xe graphics (which will be good for battery life, as the AMD discrete graphics will need to turn on less), much faster RAM, PCI Express 4.0 (with Thunderbolt 4). PCIe, in turn, could also mean faster SSDs.
 

masterhide

macrumors newbie
Apr 20, 2020
17
9
ls1dreams, PickUrPoison, chucker23n1

Thanks! I decide to keep it) This is the best laptop Apple made since 2015 )
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,533
11,284
ls1dreams, PickUrPoison, chucker23n1

Thanks! I decide to keep it) This is the best laptop Apple made since 2015 )

I agree. There were several problematic years (see, for example, the keyboard), and now the recent releases like the 16-inch MacBook Pro and this year's Ice Lake-based MacBook Air are finally easy to recommend again.
 
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ls1dreams

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2009
629
236
ls1dreams, PickUrPoison, chucker23n1

Thanks! I decide to keep it) This is the best laptop Apple made since 2015 )

Yup, I'm on an old 2011 and am trying to hold out until Q4 of this year, but if it dies before then I would have no qualms about picking up the 16" from late 2019. It's a great machine, and you can probably find one in the outlet now for 15% off.
 
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transpo1

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2010
927
1,586
As far as "worthwhile update" goes: to be fair, we just got a massive update on basically everything but the CPU in November.

On the CPU, well…

Comet Lake-H was just announced a week or so ago. It brings Wi-Fi 6 (though I’m unsure how relevant this is; it seems Apple uses third-party Wi-Fi anyway), slightly faster RAM (can’t hurt), and slightly higher turbos. IOW, it’s rather boring and wasn't worth waiting for. Right now, AMD seems far more compelling for the 16-inch.

It’s possible Apple won’t bother with this update at all, especially since it already saw a major update in November.

Beyond this, around early next year, there’s two possibilities: either Intel will first ship Rocket Lake-H. That will hopefully bring Xe graphics, which could help the 16-inch switch to dedicated less often (thus saving battery life). That in turn, for Apple, could also mean the return of a pure integrated option. It will also likely bring much faster RAM, which Ice Lake already has (it’s wild how the Air cites much faster RAM than any other Mac, isn’t it?). It will likely bring PCIe 4 and Thunderbolt 4; this should break the 3 GiB/s barrier for SSDs. It might bring ten-core options. Comet Lake was originally rumored to, but only the S (desktop) variant ultimately got them. But otherwise, it’ll still be yet another Skylake++++++ CPU.

Or they could skip that. It looks like Ice Lake is finally ramping up, and as a result, they killed much of the Cascade Lake line-up on the server side in favor of going straight to Ice Lake. That’s great. If they do skip Rocket Lake-H, they could go straight to Alder Lake, and that’d be the first exciting one in a long time. Alder Lake will be 10nm, so it will bring Ice Lake to the full line-up. That means a nicer performance boost, at long last. It is also rumored to bring a big.LITTLE-like configuration in the high end: 8 fast cores, 8 slow cores. So, less power draw, more performance.
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I can see that, but if you buy a Coffee Lake Refresh-H 16-inch MBP today, and Apple brings out a Comet Lake-H one just outside your return window, that's unlikely to annoy you.

(There's other specs they could bump, like Wi-Fi, or the GPU, but as far as the CPU is concerned, things will be low-key for a while.)

Unless they go AMD, anyway.
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I do hope we'll see a 3840x2400 panel eventually.

There's just so many Lakes...so many. :p
 
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