Intel Unveils Full Lineup of Skylake Processors for Notebooks and Desktops, Early 2016 Likely for Most Macs

[symphara]

Nope, you're entirely wrong.

Now that you point it out so eloquently and with solid arguments I can only agree and try to mend my ways.

Intel can't get around the laws of physics.

Huh?

The idea that Intel have something comparable to ARMs is laughable.

As far as I can tell, judging by benchmarks and battery life, the x7 is comparable with what ARM has. Not better, but certainly comparable.

 

[Steve121178]

If the Air is not updated with retina and slowly phased out, there could be room for a larger 13.3 or 14" retina MacBook with 15 W chips down he line. There really needs to be something between the ultraportable 12" 4.5 W MacBook and the Pros.

I disagree. If you want ultraportable and light, get a 12" MacBook. Want something ultrabook sized & powerful? Get a 13" rMBP. Want something even more powerful with a >15 display? Get the 15" rMBP.

I'm not sure there's a need for overcrowding the lineup by adding more models. It's also pretty clear that the 12" MacBook is the long-term replacement for the MacBook Air models which may survive another year before being phased out.

 

[Michael Goff]

Well for sure I wouldn't take a 30% CPU speed drop in multithreaded performance, considering that what I need is more speed, not less. That is a gulf btw. The real kicker is that the new rMB is around the same performance of the 2011 i7 MBA, so there's no reason to upgrade. Yes the screen is nice, but the keyboard is not and the lack of ports is a complete bust.

Then what you need is a MBP. The entry level, 1300$, model gets about 10% better performance than even the highest end MBA when it comes to multithreaded performance. It also has a better GPU. More performance for less money.

 

[manu chao]

I know, thus my comment about proper support. There is the compatibility issue, but Apple may have a way of dealing with that. It may be as a part of a transition to a new OS platform. Some people may not remember the transition from OS 9 to OS 10, which took a few years as OS X matured. It could be something similar where the benefits are obvious but people move over when the software they use is available.

During the transition from Mac OS 9 to OS X, the processor architecture did not change. The only that was needed was virtualisation (much like running Windows in Fusion or Parallels, though the actual implementation was only a partial virtualisation much like Wine offers, essentially providing all the APIs that OS 9 applications needed to run). There is only a small speed penalty when doing virtualisation (mainly the overhead to run the extra APIs or in full virtualisation the second OS).

When you switch processor architectures, you need to emulate the instruction sets and that is rather inefficient. Apple created a relative efficient solution with Rosetta for the transition from PowerPC to (Intel) x86 but that was much helped with x86 have a significant performance advantage over PowerPCs at that time. As a rule of thumb I would guess that you need a performance advantage of a factor of two to pull off such a transition without a serious slump in performance (much depends here on how different the instruction sets are).

 

[unplugme71]

Well, that is a new criticism.... not functionality but now it is the crammed-appearing keyboard. I don't own one, but I have played with it and I actually liked the new feel of the mechanism.... of course the key fall takes a little getting use to.... but then so did all the keyboards that came after my IBM PC from 1981.... now that was a keyboard.... I could even kill someone with it quite easily by whacking a bad developer with it.... oh those were the days when you had real keyboards....

95% of the people do not need any more than one port if they are using it as a laptop/portable. At home - yes people like plugging more stuff in, but docks fill that void..... If I am taking something between two locations (home/office) then I already usually just get a power adapter for both locations to lighten the regular load. If the laptop can keep a full days charge, it already lightens the load. As someone that came off the road after 3 years with one shoulder pressed down an inch or more from the weight of laptops when they were heavy.... I can greatly appreciate the lightness and compactness of the Macbook..... sometimes I even had to carry two around - one for work (consulting company) and one for the customer that I was dedicated to.

The macbook CPU is sufficient for coding, for document editing, for spreadsheets, powerpoint/keynote, for touching up photos - still image editing, playing movies, music, conferencing, file transfer, browsing the internet, irc, messaging, remote desktop applications, charting, sqldeveloper, etc.

What the macbook is not really designed for is video editing (other than a quick touchup), 4K video editing especially, running vmware with multiple virtual machines - running Linux and Oracle.... and hardcore gaming.... but then the Macbook Air is not really meant for those tasks.

I would however like them to change the USB-C port from just USB to USB/Thunderbolt in the skylake version.... then you can even hook up DAS disk arrays, and external graphics cards within docks etc.

I just see a very small niche between the Macbook pro line and the Macbook line - something that could easily be absorbed in one line or another.

I use my 2010 MBP for vmware and it runs Windows 10 and Debian just fine. I also use it for photo editing and filming projects without issue. I'm not doing any production movies so I don't need fancy hardware.

As for ports, I actually dislike using a dock. Even on the road, I'm usually plugged in to 2-3 devices at a time. If all those happened to be USB-C I wouldn't care and actually prefer it. Sure adapters suck, but that's just now. Devices will start coming out with USB-C going forward if it catches on.

I also game perfectly fine on my MBP.

To say 95%, where did you pull that number? Probably out of thin air.

 

[unplugme71]

What is the role of the MBA that the MB doesn't do?

The MBA comes in different sizes, smaller and larger than the MB. It also has a faster CPU, better IG, longer battery life, more connectivity...

As for role, I want something that has very long battery life to be mobile. I don't care about retina screen as the MBA has a good-enough resolution for tasks. The extra cpu and graphics helps run some applications. Having all the ports allows me to connect more easily and with less adapters.

I mean, really, do some research.

Need help? Here's a start: http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

 

[Michael Goff]

The MBA comes in different sizes, smaller and larger than the MB. It also has a faster CPU, better IG, longer battery life, more connectivity...

As for role, I want something that has very long battery life to be mobile. I don't care about retina screen as the MBA has a good-enough resolution for tasks. The extra cpu and graphics helps run some applications. Having all the ports allows me to connect more easily and with less adapters.

I mean, really, do some research.

Need help? Here's a start: http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

I have a 5000MaH battery that I could plug into the MB and make it get better battery life than any Air. Also, you're not likely to get the estimated 12 hours if you're pushing the CPU.

Anyway, as I've pointed out, the difference is only really there when comparing the i7 version in multithreaded performance.

None of what you said remotely talks about a role, though. See, when people talk about a role of something they point out something it does. Like if you buy something for the role of playing games, or typing a novel. Those are roles. What you gave is nonspecific nonsense.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

The MBA comes in different sizes, smaller or larger than the MB. It also has a faster CPU, better IG, longer battery life, more connectivity...

I mean, really, do some research.

Need help? Here's a start: http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

A faster CPU check - that is just specs - what does that faster CPU do for you.... it is not really fast, just faster - but even if it is 25% faster than the Macbook -- the overall performance boost it will give you on an average application will be significantly less. At least I provided a list of USES that would tax or not tax the CPU and which category you would have to move to.... for most everything the jump for things that MUST have a faster CPU for -- you would have to make a jump to pro or above. Just measuring specs is like comparing your weiner... most people's CPU idle 80 - 90% on average... so now you will be down to 80% instead of 90% idle time.... the problem is.... it is not noticeable except for boot time.... but then I put laptops to sleep until I have to patch it.

Better IG... again it is really what it gives you. Things that bog down the Macbook tend to bog down the Macbook air - things like video editing... photo editing can be done quite well on the Macbook.

That battery life will be much shorter once you go retina.... poof advantage all gone.

Connectivity - you mean ports..... If you are looking for a desktop replacement you really should go with the pro or above.... The vast majority of people don't use any ports when they use the laptop as a laptop - instead of a desktop and to be quite honest I would get a dock. Of course that one is really up to the individual to determine their use cases.... I find some people freaking out about the lack of ports and when I ask them what they plug into the computer when not at their desk.... they can't think of anything.... when they are at their desk.... well... they might end up using more than 2 USB ports and every laptop has limitations.

I would like the next version replace that USB port with a USB/Thunderbolt port - that will give you much greater expansion possibilities.

 

[Mattsasa]

What is this regular work you're doing on an Air that you can't do on a MacBook?

What is the role of the MBA that the MB doesn't do?

Don't get me started, seriously. I promise you there is a lot.

I purchase every generation of the Air that is released, and the Macbook, and will be purchasing the next couple generations of the Airs and of the new rMB.

And I use both these laptops in all kinds of scenarios and situations. For recreation, for education, for multiple jobs in software and video game development.


I feel people underestimate the power of a MacBook Air, (and also the power of a MacBook).

But I promise you the 4.5W CPUs have their own role, and the 15W CPUs have their own role, and the 28W CPUs have their own role. I promise you.

The MB against the MBA isn't that huge of a gap according to geekbench.

Single thread:
MB- 2633
MBA 11"-2859 (i5)
MBA 13"- 3210 (i7)

Multi thread:
MB- 5272
MBA 11"- 5724
MBA 13"- 6857 (This is the only big gap, and this is an i7)

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-6000.125588.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-5300.125576.0.html

In some benchmarks, the two GPU are even basically equal.

Where is this power gulf?

None of what you said remotely talks about a role, though. See, when people talk about a role of something they point out something it does. Like if you buy something for the role of playing games, or typing a novel. Those are roles. What you gave is nonspecific nonsense.

exactly, the MacBook Air, can have the i7. and It is significant performance gap.

but the bigger performance gap is in the GPU performance.

sure some benchmarks may show it equal.
But in real world performance it is a very significant GPU gap.

For gaming, 3D modeling, animation, real-time video game editing/rendering, video and photo editing.
And yes the Macbook air is a great machine for all the above mentioned items.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

To say 95%, where did you pull that number? Probably out of thin air.

OK then - how about tell me if you are travelling with the laptop during the day (not home -> office and back - which I consider to be a desktop replacement) .... what do you plug in? I don't see people walking around with printers and plugging them in on the road, flash drives sure but usually to copy things to/from and remove, camera same-same, power if your laptop does not last the full day and you are not at the office/home, external webcam... never see people plug those in when not at home or office, microphone - same, what???). If I go away on the road and stay at a hotel, I will throw extra stuff in the suitcase and then leave them at the hotel .... but I don't lug them around with me in the middle of the day.

 

[Michael Goff]

Don't get me started, seriously. I promise you there is a lot.

I purchase every generation of the Air that is released, and the Macbook, and will be purchasing the next couple generations of the Airs and of the new rMB.

And I use both these laptops in all kinds of scenarios and situations. For recreation, for education, for multiple jobs in software and video game development.


I feel people underestimate the power of a MacBook Air, (and also the power of a MacBook).

But I promise you the 4.5W CPUs have their own role, and the 15W CPUs have their own role, and the 28W CPUs have their own role. I promise you.




exactly, the MacBook Air, can have the i7. and It is significant performance gap.

but the bigger performance gap is in the GPU performance.

sure some benchmarks may show it equal.
But in real world performance it is a very significant GPU gap.

For gaming, 3D modeling, animation, real-time video game editing/rendering, video and photo editing.
And yes the Macbook air is a great machine for all the above mentioned items.

I've tried gaming on a MBA, it's not great. I don't know how anyone can say gaming on an iGPU is anything more than bearable.

 

[Vdx]

I hope for a redesign Mac mini with skylake...

 

[bkkcanuck8]

Make it a quad-core Xeon mobile and we have a deal.... oh right... I don't have the power

 

[subsonix]

I hope for a redesign Mac mini with skylake...

What do you have in mind? I don't see how it can be redesigned in any meaningful way, it's an aluminum brick.

 

[Vdx]

I don't have such high hopes.. A dual core i5or i7 with 16gb ram and ssd is fine with me!!!

 

[Vdx]

What do you have in mind? I don't see how it can be redesigned in any meaningful way, it's an aluminum brick.

I just saw some old renderings and i got carried away... As i said above a hardware upgrade is fine for me.

 

[subsonix]

I just saw some old renderings and i got carried away... As i said above a hardware upgrade is fine for me.

I see, I think it'll get a CPU upgrade. In any case, making it smaller can only happen at the cost of fewer ports, which would only make it less useful. Of course, I have no idea what the renderings you looked at are like.. Which is why I asked what you had in mind.

 

[Vdx]

I see, I think it'll get a CPU upgrade. In any case, making it smaller can only happen at the cost of fewer ports, which would only make it less useful. Of course, I have no idea what the renderings you looked at are like.. Which is why I asked what you had in mind.

It will also be nice if the standard version came with more ram..

 

[bkkcanuck8]

For gaming, 3D modeling, animation, real-time video game editing/rendering, video ... editing.
And yes the Macbook air is a great machine for all the above mentioned items.

Are you making it up, or are you really a masochist??

 

[Mattsasa]

I've tried gaming on a MBA, it's not great. I don't know how anyone can say gaming on an iGPU is anything more than bearable.

I would argue that MBA is one of the best gaming laptops one can buy. Now, I know for sure you think I am crazy.
But It's the type of gaming I am talking about. I am talking about the most popular and most played pc games.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/
Many PC gamers buy a laptop to just to play these games. And most of them are not even most demanding.
I say the Macbook Air is great, because it can play the majority of these games at high detail at 900p(cuz the air doesn't have 1080p) and many of these games it will even play at very high/ ultra detail. at a smooth 60fps. Of course a gaming notebook would do the same, but would be far less portable. and less efficient. Most gaming notebooks I test can play 1-2 hours without charge. Where the macbook air gets 4+ hours for many of these games. And this is true with the HD 6000, HD 5000, and even the HD 4000. And with the 15W Iris 540, it will be even more true.

Of course there are many types of AAA games, that I would not attempt to play on an iGPU. But I see so often people buying giant gaming notebook just to play MMOS, MOBAs, and other completive online games, and it cracks me up.

Are you making it up, or are you really a masochist??

Neither, MacBook Air is widely used in all these fields. I have worked in these fields myself, or have friends who have, and the MBA is a very popular device, as it is often times perfect for people's needs.

What it really needs is retina display upgrade, which is so frustrating. And I am not sure what apple's plans are with that

 

[nutjob]

During the transition from Mac OS 9 to OS X, the processor architecture did not change. The only that was needed was virtualisation (much like running Windows in Fusion or Parallels, though the actual implementation was only a partial virtualisation much like Wine offers, essentially providing all the APIs that OS 9 applications needed to run). There is only a small speed penalty when doing virtualisation (mainly the overhead to run the extra APIs or in full virtualisation the second OS).

When you switch processor architectures, you need to emulate the instruction sets and that is rather inefficient. Apple created a relative efficient solution with Rosetta for the transition from PowerPC to (Intel) x86 but that was much helped with x86 have a significant performance advantage over PowerPCs at that time. As a rule of thumb I would guess that you need a performance advantage of a factor of two to pull off such a transition without a serious slump in performance (much depends here on how different the instruction sets are).

You missed my point: The switch from 9 to 10 was a big charge for all applications and required them to be rebuilt for 10. You don't have to emulate anything if you have that style of transition, probably combining it with a major OS charge. The transition will just take longer.

 

[Michael Goff]

I would argue that MBA is one of the best gaming laptops one can buy. Now, I know for sure you think I am crazy.
But It's the type of gaming I am talking about. I am talking about the most popular and most played pc games.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/251222/most-played-pc-games/
Many PC gamers buy a laptop to just to play these games. And most of them are not even most demanding.
I say the Macbook Air is great, because it can play the majority of these games at high detail at 900p(cuz the air doesn't have 1080p) and many of these games it will even play at very high/ ultra detail. at a smooth 60fps. Of course a gaming notebook would do the same, but would be far less portable. and less efficient. Most gaming notebooks I test can play 1-2 hours without charge. Where the macbook air gets 4+ hours for many of these games. And this is true with the HD 6000, HD 5000, and even the HD 4000. And with the 15W Iris 540, it will be even more true.

Of course there are many types of AAA games, that I would not attempt to play on an iGPU. But I see so often people buying giant gaming notebook just to play MMOS, MOBAs, and other completive online games, and it cracks me up.



Neither, MacBook Air is widely used in all these fields. I have worked in these fields myself, or have friends who have, and the MBA is a very popular device, as it is often times perfect for people's needs.

What it really needs is retina display upgrade, which is so frustrating. And I am not sure what apple's plans are with that

Definitely wouldn't play LoL without a mouse.

Als, the MBA screen is crappy for games in more ways than just the resolution.

 

[manu chao]

You missed my point: The switch from 9 to 10 was a big charge for all applications and required them to be rebuilt for 10.

But the applications that weren't rebuilt yet continued to run without almost no limitations or downsides making it possible to stretch out that transition over multiple years without suffering performance reductions. The Classic Environment was available in OS X 10.0 through 10.4, ie, for more than six years. That is quite a long period, giving developers a lot of time to re-write their applications.

Switching to ARM is a smaller change for applications but those applications that have not been modified will run with a significant performance penalty.

 

[manu chao]

But I promise you the 4.5W CPUs have their own role, and the 15W CPUs have their own role, and the 28W CPUs have their own role. I promise you.

Given that the MBP line has two different models, one with a 28 W CPU and one with a 47-ish W CPU (dual-core vs quad-core, Intel GPU vs discrete GPU), a retina Macbook line could have two different models, one with a 4.5 W CPU and one with a 15 W CPU.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

When you switch processor architectures, you need to emulate the instruction sets and that is rather inefficient. Apple created a relative efficient solution with Rosetta for the transition from PowerPC to (Intel) x86 but that was much helped with x86 have a significant performance advantage over PowerPCs at that time. As a rule of thumb I would guess that you need a performance advantage of a factor of two to pull off such a transition without a serious slump in performance (much depends here on how different the instruction sets are).

Things will not be the same since it is not the same process when it comes to ARM/Intel. In the Rosetta age applications were written and compiled down to byte code (down to the machine language) by the application developer. Rosetta was more of a processor emulator which means that the code itself did not run on the processor, but ran on another program that saw PowerPC code and then emulated the PowerPC and translated it to the Intel platform. Since around 2008, Apple has switched from compile technology that compiles down to bytecode to a bitcode (a cross processor architecture assembly language/binary) that the LLVM compiles into specific processor technology. Usually right now those two steps are done on the developers computer and then uploaded to the app store. The change has all applications being uploaded to the app store as the LLVM bitcode and then as advancements occur in optimization the app store "compiles" it down to the binary (though technically this could be done both as part of installation on OS X as well - technically the same) for a specific processor. As time goes on all the applications as they are updated all will be in that format, then at a certain point Apple will drop any applications that have not been updated (similar to what they did with 32 vs 64 bit). That means that all applications in the app store are basically natively compiled down to whatever processor the customer's computer is running - it is not emulating a processor to run the application... it is not translating different operating systems... it is native operating system (OS 9 and OS X were different operating systems). It will no longer require rosetta or similar transitional technology for changes from processor families like before.

Given that the MBP line has two different models, one with a 28 W CPU and one with a 47-ish W CPU (dual-core vs quad-core, Intel GPU vs discrete GPU), a retina Macbook line could have two different models, one with a 4.5 W CPU and one with a 15 W CPU.

One is fanless technology, one requires cooling to be built into the case.... two completely different case designs. Fan requires a bigger case, so you might call it the same but it would look different the size would be different which means you would just be renaming the air and not changing the design.

The wattage on the CPUs has to be with heat generated - not the power to run them (though their is a correlation obviously)