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It looks like AMD is going to have to push a new naming convention too...

Introducing the new AMD Athlon 700+ processor! It lacks something, huh?
 
Quixcube said:
It looks like AMD is going to have to push a new naming convention too...

Introducing the new AMD Athlon 700+ processor! It lacks something, huh?
Hmm... looks like they did :) Sorry. I should follow processors more closely.

I wonder what the next buzz word in PC shopping will be. Megahertz were so much fun to chase.
 
Quixcube said:
It looks like AMD is going to have to push a new naming convention too...

Introducing the new AMD Athlon 700+ processor! It lacks something, huh?

You mean actual information? Yeah, it does lack that.

~J
 
hey intel, go [bleep] yourself! this is part of why i hate pcs. i mean we've all had that argument with a friend, how he just got the 6 gazillion meg processor from intel. then he wants to show you how fast it is, turns it on, and your waiting for an hour, while winblows figures out what the hell it's doin. at which point i tell him that's exactly my point, "you just blew a crap load of money and you got [bleep]! it's ok though, 'cause you can at least tell people, oh yeah, i got the new 6 gazillion meg processor from intel!" get a g5 with osx and be happy!
 
mrsebastian said:
hey intel, go [bleep] yourself! this is part of why i hate pcs. i mean we've all had that argument with a friend, how he just got the 6 gazillion meg processor from intel. then he wants to show you how fast it is, turns it on, and your waiting for an hour, while winblows figures out what the hell it's doin. at which point i tell him that's exactly my point, "you just blew a crap load of money and you got [bleep]! it's ok though, 'cause you can at least tell people, oh yeah, i got the new 6 gazillion meg processor from intel!" get a g5 with osx and be happy!

You know, there's a degree to which I dislike trolling in favor of Macs as much as I dislike trolling against them. Windows machines do work. I've never seen a high end Intel machine (which is what I'm assuming you're implying with '6 gazillion meg processor') that doesn't start up Windows in about the same amount of time that a high end Mac takes to start up OS X. If you're going to rail against Windows and Intel, at least do it in a reasonable and defendable way...
 
jxyama said:
no, they won't be able to. AMD have had a policy in place ever since they re-named their processors with "arbituary" numbers (ex. "2500") that the actual clockspeed of the chips NOT be posted. and manufacturers have been faithful. they obviously re-named their chips to imply "effective" clockspeed, i.e. "2500" being effectively as fast as intel's 2.5 GHz chip

I believe the actual company line is that the model number is the speed differential between AMD's own chips, not intels (ie the AMD 2500 was 2.5 times as fast as a 1gig AMD chip, not a 1gig Pentium (winkwink, nudgenudge.)

i think the real reason behind this is that the clock speed/performance correlation between say a 3.2g and 3.4g chip is lessening. It's roughly 6% faster in raw clockspeed, but the performance benchmarks are closer to 5% and under in some cases. By the time intel hits the promised 5ghz mark, even an increase from a 4.5 ghz chip will only be 9% faster at maximum (considering that there is no revolutionary architectural changes, but even the new prescott chips are running slower than the previous generation chip).

i think this was coming for a while now, AMD was smart enough to see it earlier. Apple/IBM may eventually turn to it then as well.
 
rdowns said:
Does anyone really think the manufacturers won't slap the GHz at the end of the chip series #? Pentium 500 series 3.4 GHz.

who says they have to? amd doesn't. consider the following hypothetical conversation:

- so it's an "athlon xp 2800" eh? does that mean it's 2800MHz, a 2.8? i don't see the specs anywhere.

- no, it's actually 2.08.

- then what's the 2800 for?

- iunno. means it's better than the 2700.

- but you could have used any numbers to show that. why such big ones? you could say an 8 is better than a 7. or letters, an "e" is better than a "d".

- but that wouldn't be as conf- i uh, iunno. they're powerful processors, and "2800" sounds powerful. that's what we're trying to convey. have a look at this model over here...

- it's ****e. your whole naming system is ****e. pants!

and that, folks, is how it all started. after the conversation moved to "why are there 2 processor class identifiers in the name, 'xp' and the unnecessarily large '2800' right next to each other", the disgruntled consumer ran off to the east and founded communist china. he lived happily ever after, never to be heard from again. and that's why groundhogs hate their shadows. and that's why sales reps have shirts with two buttons.
 
isn't it all ironic that those who are most likely to be tricked/fooled/confused by performance indicator schemes (by the clockspeed, "AMD style" or "new" Intel scheme) are the ones who are least affected by their differences?

if you are a pro or mildly tech savy, you will know the performance difference regardless of the numbering scheme and most importantly, why those differences would be relevant.

if you are confused by all this, your uses are likely emailing, web surfing and Office - and it won't matter much whatever the processor you get for those tasks...

ahh, the irony...
 
which is exactly why it doesn't matter. Intel can call them whatever the heck they want.

you think the 5 PC people who know the Mac world exists don't laugh at "G3" "G4" and "G5"?

remember when the new G4s were slower in Mhz than the new G3s?

Have you seen what an intel P4 EE 3.2 can do over a standard P4 3.2?

all that cache makes them roll...

we need two processors to keep up with (and in some cases pass) these things...

I've had a rediculous amount of trouble with my G5 and with Panther, if you ask me. I've got a PC at home that happily plays games my Dual 1.8 locks up trying to run. Apple's response is to "reformat the computer" which i have barely owned for a month and "start over."

Right. an entire magazine happens on this thing. I guess i'm lucky games don't work for crap, because my productivity would go down.

My PC is now 9 months old (i built it by hand), and I've not had to do anything to it since about week 2...i tried to impliment a RAID array after-the-fact and made a mess...

since then, it's been virtually indestructible, with the occasional (once every 3 months or so) unexpected reboot (i'm overclocking the graphics card, which is probably the excuse for the reboot).

My G5's power button has performed hard-boot duties more than 10 times so far...

anyway, i love this thing, but it's not perfect, and PCs are really no where near as bad as most of you guys seem to think. You're as ignorant as the 90% of computer users who think Mac's and PCs can't network together.

And by the way,, mr 6 gazillion megahertz, WinXP start-up time from a cold boot situation is as fast as or faster than all Mac OSes before Panther. Now they are very close...close enough that it isn't a relevant difference...
 
In some ways this seems like a good idea, but why bother changing the naming policy. It's been working for years, and I believe for the most part, most consumers understand the current system.

Of course, maybe they are just becoming afraid that the G5 will soon be at 3+Ghz..., and they can't the competition. :p
 
benpatient said:
which is exactly why it doesn't matter. Intel can call them whatever the heck they want.

you think the 5 PC people who know the Mac world exists don't laugh at "G3" "G4" and "G5"?

I don't know anyone on either side that finds the G3, G4, G5 naming scheme any funnier than the P2, P3, P4 naming scheme.

remember when the new G4s were slower in Mhz than the new G3s?

Check your history. When the G4 first came out, it was released at a top end 500MHz, as compared to the previous 450MHz for the G3 PM. Now, due to supply problems with Moto, the G4 was down-graded to 450MHz almost immediately, but it was never slower than the G3s.

Have you seen what an intel P4 EE 3.2 can do over a standard P4 3.2?

all that cache makes them roll...

and is a move to bolster a chip that they're having trouble pushing faster...

we need two processors to keep up with (and in some cases pass) these things...

Well, yes, we need two processors to keep up with, say, a dual Xeon. Two processors vs. two processors. Yes, there are some tests where a single P4 can out-perform a dual G5, but there are also tests where a single (1.6GHz) G5 can out-perform a dual (3.2GHz) P4 Xeon. It's too easy to quote figures back and forth. Over all, based on everything that I've seen, these chips are comparable. Therefore, the dual G5 is on a par with a dual Xeon.

I've had a rediculous amount of trouble with my G5 and with Panther, if you ask me. I've got a PC at home that happily plays games my Dual 1.8 locks up trying to run.

There is a simple reason why Macs aren't gaming machines: THE GAMES AREN'T WRITTEN FOR THEM. They're written for the PC, using things like DirectX, then they're ported over to the Mac, usually poorly. Just because a game is crashing your computer doesn't mean that the computer is bad.

Apple's response is to "reformat the computer" which i have barely owned for a month and "start over."

Well, in point of fact, this is a good idea with any new computer, whether Mac or PC. The first thing that I do when I get a new machine is reformat the drive and go. It's just a good measure. If you didn't do this, then you're reaping the benefits. If you did do this, it sounds like whatever games your trying to run are wreaking havoc with your system. Again, not the fault of the computer or Apple.

My PC is now 9 months old...i love this thing, but it's not perfect, and PCs are really no where near as bad as most of you guys seem to think. You're as ignorant as the 90% of computer users who think Mac's and PCs can't network together.

Great. I'm glad that your PC does what you want it to. Clearly it's a good machine for you. However, please don't throw such blanket insults around. Most of us here really do know that PCs are decent machines. We may personally dislike them, but they are, after all, just tools. It is simply a vocal few that are 'as ignorant as the 90% of computer users who think that Mac's and PCs can't network together.' But by issuing an insult to the majority, you tend to place yourself more in the category of a troll... :rolleyes:

My G5's power button has performed hard-boot duties more than 10 times so far...

It sounds like you may have some real issues. I'd certainly recommend starting with a clean install of the OS (if not a reformatted drive), and go from there. Macs, too, are just tools, and sometimes they're broken. If you go through the proper steps to find the problem, I'll bet your G5 will be even more indestructible than your PC (this coming from personal experience).

And by the way...WinXP start-up time from a cold boot situation is as fast as or faster than all Mac OSes before Panther. Now they are very close...close enough that it isn't a relevant difference...

Well, that's really not true. A few years ago I started up my old Mac LC, running System 7.1. I swear, I blinked and the desktop was up. I got curious about that and timed it. From turning the power on to having the desktop up took on the order of 5 seconds. That's what OSes used to be like. Oh well. Now, it may be true that XP has loaded faster than any previous version of OS X, but that's really saying something completely different...
 
benpatient got dissed....
Snowy tore benpatient a new hole....
benpatient got smacked like a biatch....
Snowy...you get the idea. trying to inject some humor...

actually im going to propound on this thread an age old computing theory... here goes...

I have a dual Athlon MP 2ghz that i built with my own manly hands... it has 2gbs of ddr ram and a Radeon 9700... blah blah blah. I also own a very sexy 1ghz Aluminum powerbook... I edit videos for my soc UROP ...their really boring interviews and require alot of slicing and transitioning and color re-adjustment ... so obiously one would think that working on the dual Athlon MP (2ghz) with windows xp pro ed would be a better decision since its a way more powerful machine. but after learning to use final cut pro, i realized that i can't edit video on pcs... period. I mean i found that i like final cut so much more then adobe premier that I've stuck my my powerbook... i actually get work done faster even though rendering takes up more time because i work more efficient. so, moral of the story is, screw benchmarks, cause they are a poor measure of real world productivity. I haven't booted the dual mp since december... it sleeps in my bedroom at home (miles away from my school) waiting for Doom 3, halflife 2, and splintercell pandora tomorrow to grace its harddrive. Yes, i do every thing on a inferior machine, and i get sheit done faster.
 
Dippo said:
Microsoft copies Apple.

Intel copies AMD.

What else is new?
Sometimes I wonder if Intel actually works for Microsoft...like SCO...

The Megahertz Myth really worked against Intel with the Pentium-M/Centrino, I'll agree on that. When Centrino came out, Pentium 4's were 533 mhz bus speed and 512k cache. The Centrinos only went to 1.3 GHz but had a honking 2 MB of cache. Many people think, "Well, I hear Centrinos have good battery but I don't want a computer thats only 1.3 GHz...". True, Centrinos are now up to 1.6 GHz, but it still sounds way slower than the 3.4 GHz P4...
 
GFLPraxis said:
Sometimes I wonder if Intel actually works for Microsoft...like SCO...

The Megahertz Myth really worked against Intel with the Pentium-M/Centrino, I'll agree on that. When Centrino came out, Pentium 4's were 533 mhz bus speed and 512k cache. The Centrinos only went to 1.3 GHz but had a honking 2 MB of cache. Many people think, "Well, I hear Centrinos have good battery but I don't want a computer thats only 1.3 GHz...". True, Centrinos are now up to 1.6 GHz, but it still sounds way slower than the 3.4 GHz P4...
i can't stand pc laptops...so unartistic.... obiously dell did not hire industrial artists to desgin their shizzle.
 
carbonmotion said:
i can't stand pc laptops...so unartistic.... obiously dell did not hire industrial artists to desgin their shizzle.


PC laptops come in all shapes in sizes.

There is more than Dell out there.
 
carbonmotion said:
some i like, some i dont... havent seen a design more attractive then the aluminum powerbook though.

Definitely, wholeheartedly agree! Some of the VAIOs look nice though...their desktops do as well...Alienware is OK as well....Compaq is better than it used to be, and Dell still f*ing sucks! They try, my god do they try, but they still turn out sh*t! Dell DJ anyone?
 
zync said:
Definitely, wholeheartedly agree! Some of the VAIOs look nice though...their desktops do as well...


For some reason I have had nothing but trouble with sony computers, maybe it just my bad luck.

ON Topic:

This news might have come as a surprise to some people but not to me. Intel was pushing pure megahertz as the defining factor of ALL chips, but this caused problems with the lower clocked Pentium-M type processors.

So what else could they do but try to undo all the years of pushing megahertz.

Intel flip-flops more than some politicians, remember the whole 32bit-64bit processor that they would NEVER make!!! Well they sure have changed their tune now.
 
benpatient said:
which is exactly why it doesn't matter. Intel can call them whatever the heck they want.

you think the 5 PC people who know the Mac world exists don't laugh at "G3" "G4" and "G5"?

remember when the new G4s were slower in Mhz than the new G3s?

Have you seen what an intel P4 EE 3.2 can do over a standard P4 3.2?

all that cache makes them roll...

we need two processors to keep up with (and in some cases pass) these things...

I've had a rediculous amount of trouble with my G5 and with Panther, if you ask me. I've got a PC at home that happily plays games my Dual 1.8 locks up trying to run. Apple's response is to "reformat the computer" which i have barely owned for a month and "start over."

Right. an entire magazine happens on this thing. I guess i'm lucky games don't work for crap, because my productivity would go down.

My PC is now 9 months old (i built it by hand), and I've not had to do anything to it since about week 2...i tried to impliment a RAID array after-the-fact and made a mess...

since then, it's been virtually indestructible, with the occasional (once every 3 months or so) unexpected reboot (i'm overclocking the graphics card, which is probably the excuse for the reboot).

My G5's power button has performed hard-boot duties more than 10 times so far...

anyway, i love this thing, but it's not perfect, and PCs are really no where near as bad as most of you guys seem to think. You're as ignorant as the 90% of computer users who think Mac's and PCs can't network together.

And by the way,, mr 6 gazillion megahertz, WinXP start-up time from a cold boot situation is as fast as or faster than all Mac OSes before Panther. Now they are very close...close enough that it isn't a relevant difference...

No, YOU'RE just lucky. Trust me on this. You're VERY lucky. I have several PC's and two Macs. One Mac is a G3 Pismo, the other is a 1 GHz G4 PowerBook, both running Panther, both laptops. The Pismo crashes a bit (once every week or two), but hey, it's unsupported hardware.
My main Windows computer runs fairly well, but its getting slower all the time. At 2.6 GHz it's fairly fast. And it's a fancy Sony VAIO. It screws up once in awhile, forcing a restart.

My previous desktop (which I still have) was a 900 mhz Celeron running Windows XP Pro. I should call it a 900 mhz Crasheron. When I installed Windows XP (previously had 98, did not upgrade but installed XP on another partition), it was completely screwy whenever I played the game Bridge Commander. I got the Windows XP driver for my graphics card, and all was good for a time. Then it started crashing every half hour. Not just crashing- Blue Screen of Deathing me. I thought BSOD's were gone in XP, but nope, I got the BSOD 2.0, with revised fonts and left-aligned.

Crash crash crash, every half hour. It told me the graphics card got caught in an infinity loop, while I was only browsing in Internet Exploiter!
After I let my parents use the computer, IE became filled with spyware and adware and viruses.

I finally replaced the graphics card and bought a new one, and donated the graphics card to a friend with Windows 98. It works perfectly for him.

Now I'm suffering from Windows decay. I right click on my computer and I wait nearly a MINUTE for the right click menu to come up. After using Windows so long the computer has slowed down to the point that it is nearly unusable.

The same for my third computer, a 450 mhz P3. It used to run great, and now it doesn't.

On the other hand, the PowerBook G4 is a dream.

The truth is, PC's ARE that bad. There are a few people who are lucky and happen to have JUST the right hardware set so that XP never crashes. And there are some people who are unlucky enough to have Macs that screw up a lot (generally, G5 owners, as the G5's tend to have problems for some reason). But the MAJORITY of Macs are stabler, and the MAJORITY of Windows PC's crash a lot.
 
GFLPraxis said:
No, YOU'RE just lucky. Trust me on this. You're VERY lucky. I have several PC's and two Macs. One Mac is a G3 Pismo, the other is a 1 GHz G4 PowerBook, both running Panther, both laptops. The Pismo crashes a bit (once every week or two), but hey, it's unsupported hardware.
My main Windows computer runs fairly well, but its getting slower all the time. At 2.6 GHz it's fairly fast. And it's a fancy Sony VAIO. It screws up once in awhile, forcing a restart.

My previous desktop (which I still have) was a 900 mhz Celeron running Windows XP Pro. I should call it a 900 mhz Crasheron. When I installed Windows XP (previously had 98, did not upgrade but installed XP on another partition), it was completely screwy whenever I played the game Bridge Commander. I got the Windows XP driver for my graphics card, and all was good for a time. Then it started crashing every half hour. Not just crashing- Blue Screen of Deathing me. I thought BSOD's were gone in XP, but nope, I got the BSOD 2.0, with revised fonts and left-aligned.

Crash crash crash, every half hour. It told me the graphics card got caught in an infinity loop, while I was only browsing in Internet Exploiter!
After I let my parents use the computer, IE became filled with spyware and adware and viruses.

I finally replaced the graphics card and bought a new one, and donated the graphics card to a friend with Windows 98. It works perfectly for him.

Now I'm suffering from Windows decay. I right click on my computer and I wait nearly a MINUTE for the right click menu to come up. After using Windows so long the computer has slowed down to the point that it is nearly unusable.

The same for my third computer, a 450 mhz P3. It used to run great, and now it doesn't.

On the other hand, the PowerBook G4 is a dream.

The truth is, PC's ARE that bad. There are a few people who are lucky and happen to have JUST the right hardware set so that XP never crashes. And there are some people who are unlucky enough to have Macs that screw up a lot (generally, G5 owners, as the G5's tend to have problems for some reason). But the MAJORITY of Macs are stabler, and the MAJORITY of Windows PC's crash a lot.

I have sexual feelings for my powerbook because i love it so much :D
 
Prometheus (my Titanium Powerbook G4) performs many of the functions of a significant other, including keeping me warm on the long winter nights.

~J
 
carbonmotion said:
screw benchmarks, cause they are a poor measure of real world productivity.

amen to that!

i'd say benchmarks are for those who have nothing to do and can afford to sit there and compare how long machines would take to do a task they won't be doing! :D
 
AMD's new naming system

If AMD wants to one up Intel right away, they should go with the following naming system

400 series

600 series

800 series

Makes that 300, 500, 700 look like yesterdays news!

It's hard enough for most people to even being to figure out why the Compaq Presario 300 with a 60GB HD, nVidia FX video card, and x amount of ram, y amount of ports is better than say the Dell Dimension 8100 with a radeon card, and x, y, z. Or Should they get the Gateway X800. Then add in a 300, 500, or 700 series processor. At least currently Mhz/Ghz is a sort of benchmark for the layperson that makes some sense, kinda like horsepower in cars, but these new number will just be more nonesense to most people. In the end most people will just open up Consumer's Reports and then talk to the guys at Best Buy, CompUSA and get whatever has the best "rating". Anything over 2Ghz pretty much does the trick for most users anyway. Unless of course you need the Radeon XT with 256MB of ram and at least an 800Mhz front-side bus, 1GB of Ram, PCI and PCI Express, 8X AGP, and let's not forget the audigy sound card, firewire and usb ports, and controllable fans....all to get an extra few fps in UT2004 :p
 
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