Intel's Skylake Processor Lineup for Retina MacBook Revealed

[RedRaven571]

I wonder when Apple will have their Ax CPU ready for notebooks.
I bet Apple hates having to wait for Intel (like IBM - G5 and Motorola G4, G3, etc... before) to be able to make the best computer.

A dumb question: IF Apple ever went down the path of (again) using proprietary CPUs in their notebooks, my understanding is that Bootcamp would go by the wayside, but, would users still be able to run Windows in a VM?

 

[nutjob]

Oh great the personal attacks have started Don't speak down to me.

ARM can't compete with Intel for power, and it is as simple as that. I know very well why Intel processors use more power. However they have continually been reducing power usage. It however doesn't make sense to dump Intel for ARM based chips purely based on a power perspective. It makes more sense for Tablets to become more powerful, leaving Macs for people who want desktop class machines.

Expensive is Expensive - Intel's R&D costs are absolutely massive.

Yeah, you seem to have a problem with people disagreeing with you. Ihe idea that I'm "talking down to you" is just you being defensive because of an inability to argue your point, so you accuse me of the personal attacks that you yourself are making, so this will be my last reply to you.

Apple already make their own processors and they have the money for it. Intel's R&D costs are indeed massive, because they need to be ahead in manufacturing process because of their legacy x86 architecture.

Intel cannot keep on lowering their power usage because the laws of physics get in the way. They've already stumbled with their latest process and it's going to get worse. They've broken Moore's Law and the game is over for them.

Tablets (and laptops) will get more powerful because that's the way the industry works, but they will also get cheaper and lower power, because that's what consumers demand. Intel, by your own admission, can't compete in power and cost.

 

[nutjob]

I take it you're a low-level developer? Please enlighten us.

I do work in the industry and I design systems, but that doesn't matter, either what I say makes sense or it doesn't. Either I can convince you with facts and ideas or I can't. If you want to challenge me on details go ahead.

Lets just say I don't work for Intel, Microsoft or Apple.

 

[nutjob]

Also, Intel tried with Itanium. It seems x86 is both a cash cow and a burden. What has kept Intel on top in the middle class CPUs is a monopoly, it's not like competing architectures are inferior per se. The Wintel alliance has given them guaranteed software and OS support, plus massive volume. To compete you would need massive volume or you're going to price yourself out of the market, but again x86 is proprietary, which meant competing architectures couldn't get the volume needed to hit the price sweet spot.

With mobile, the scale is shifting, you can now do 14nm with third party fabs (Samsung, Global Foundries). Add to this a plateuing of Moore's law, it may soon be a competitive performance edge with special purpose designs. It used to be that it was not worth it, because competitors could just wait 2 years and do nothing and a generic x86 would beat a special purpose design. It's not only ARM either, there's also new and novel ISAs like Risc-V approaching.

Exactly. Intel's business model is broken. Monopolies always make the same mistake: They grow fat and comfortable and then one day the ground gives way underneath them and they disappear. Intel did well while it could ride Moore's Law like a wave, but now tide is receding and we can see who's not wearing any bathers.

Even today we're getting innovative ARM products like the 48 core ThunderX, leading the way in low power and parallelism. This is only possible because ARM is an ecosystem with many varied and smart players trying different things. Intel's only innovation is finding a new way to squeeze money out of us poor suckers. Their panic over mobile processors and their response (trying to bribe system builders with billions) speaks loudly as to their situation.

Apple knows this, but they're in the same x86 compatibility trap as everyone else. If anyone can break free it will be Apple. They will be trying to avoid going down with the Intel ship.

 

[MacsRgr8]

A dumb question: IF Apple ever went down the path of (again) using proprietary CPUs in their notebooks, my understanding is that Bootcamp would go by the wayside, but, would users still be able to run Windows in a VM?

Or will Windows 10 run natively on Apple's Ax?

The PPC and Intel CPUs were seemingly so different that emulation was needed for Windows to run on a Mac back in the PPC-days. This emulation came with such a huge performance penalty that using it really was a joke. Running Windows 2000 on a Quad G5 (fastest PPC Mac) with Virtual PC 7 (newest version that ran on the G5) still was utter crap.

But, will Windows 10 run with less "hassle" on an Ax? Can VMware or Parallels produce an emulator / virtualisation software that will run Windows close-to-native speeds?

Last question: is there such a need for Windows on a Mac?

 

[RedRaven571]

Last question: is there such a need for Windows on a Mac?

Apparently, for quite a few folks, the answer is yes. And, for a great many people looking at making a decision between a windows pc and a mac, the 'comfort' of knowing you can still run windows only apps may make them more amenable to purchasing a mac (I know it did when I got my first MBP).

At this point, I have no VM nor bootcamp partition but still know that, if there was some windows only app I REALLY needed, I have the option available.

 

[twilo]

Yes, and there's also a Microsoft Office for Android and one for Windows Phone, both of which run on ARM, and both of which are about as relevant as Office for iOS.

Yes, Cocoa is similar to Cocoa Touch, but as a user, you'd still have absolutely no way of running Office on your hypothetical ARM-powered Mac.

Microsoft had full office running on ARM when they shipped Windows RT years ago... works just fine on Snapdragon 800 with 2gb ram

 

[chucker23n1]

Microsoft had full office running on ARM when they shipped Windows RT years ago... works just fine on Snapdragon 800 with 2gb ram

Nobody is denying that they offer sufficient performance, nor that Microsoft could port Office to OS X on ARM.