Interesting graphic: Apple dominating Samsung in global cellphone profit

Brandon263

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I just found this interesting graphic that shows that even though Apple is shipping far less cellphone units than Samsung, it is making the lion's share of profit. I wonder how this will play out in the future.
 

This is probably why Samsung is looking to promote Tizen. At the moment, most users ignore Samsung's bundled services and go straight to Google Play. Anyone here ever rented a movie from Samsung on their S3/S4? Google monetizes Samsung's customers. Apple, of course, monetizes its own customers.
 

tjl3

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Nothing new, if not for the increased competition from Sony and HTC this year I would expect Samsung to catch and possibly pass them. That is not to say Apple wouldn't be still raking in huge profits. But while we've seen iPhone growth slowly leveling off Samsung will soon hit that same wall with their flagship, it's just a matter of when.

The difference maker will be a low cost iPhone tho. Samsung is already in that market and Apple has 0%. It would be one way to maintain profit share advantage.
 

blackhand1001

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This is probably why Samsung is looking to promote Tizen. At the moment, most users ignore Samsung's bundled services and go straight to Google Play. Anyone here ever rented a movie from Samsung on their S3/S4? Google monetizes Samsung's customers. Apple, of course, monetizes its own customers.
People are delusional if they think Tizen will ever end up on any flagship Samsung Device.
 

Lava Lamp Freak

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People are delusional if they think Tizen will ever end up on any flagship Samsung Device.
“The Tizen phone will be out in August or September, and this will be in the high-end category,” Lee Young Hee, executive vice president of Samsung’s mobile business, said during an interview in Seoul. “The device will be the best product equipped with the best specifications.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-14/samsung-will-release-tizen-based-smartphone-this-year.html
 

MRU

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“The Tizen phone will be out in August or September, and this will be in the high-end category,” Lee Young Hee, executive vice president of Samsung’s mobile business, said during an interview in Seoul. “The device will be the best product equipped with the best specifications.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-14/samsung-will-release-tizen-based-smartphone-this-year.html
I'm betting same internals as the S4, but priced noteably cheaper to drive sales. Possibly offered 'free' on subsidised contracts.

That would be a very smart way of getting people onto your own OS, and if it cannibalises S4 sales, its win win - you now have the customer who was going to buy your phone anyway but from now on they have to spend further money on your own App Store and content delivery. Sneaky :)
 

blackhand1001

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I'm betting same internals as the S4, but priced noteably cheaper to drive sales. Possibly offered 'free' on subsidised contracts.

That would be a very smart way of getting people onto your own OS, and if it cannibalises S4 sales, its win win - you now have the customer who was going to buy your phone anyway but from now on they have to spend further money on your own App Store and content delivery. Sneaky :)
Your delusional if you think Samsung is going to ditch android for Tizen.
 

tjl3

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Your delusional if you think Samsung is going to ditch android for Tizen.
It wouldn't be a shock if they did. As I recall they barely, if at all, mentioned Androidbat the GS4 event. Who's to say the GS5 doesn't come out on Tizen, with Samsung in full control of their OS. Because when you walk into the store you buy a Galaxy S. you don't ask what OS is it running.
 

MRU

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Your delusional if you think Samsung is going to ditch android for Tizen.
I never said they would ditch Android did I ? I said they would offer Tizen based on a flagship style device with appropriate flagship style hardware - based on what their own executives have stated.

I merely suggested if it is S4 style hardware - but then offered at a cheaper price it's possibly an excellent way of persuading consumers to try or choose their new hardware and Tizen OS - over the similar specced android version.

At no stage did I state they would ever ditch android.

So yes, please stop & refrain from name calling - it doesn't validate your argument.
 

Assault

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I just found this interesting graphic that shows that even though Apple is shipping far less cellphone units than Samsung, it is making the lion's share of profit. I wonder how this will play out in the future.
I find this graph more telling of how the rest of this year is going to play out.

 

Brandon263

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Nothing new, if not for the increased competition from Sony and HTC this year I would expect Samsung to catch and possibly pass them. That is not to say Apple wouldn't be still raking in huge profits. But while we've seen iPhone growth slowly leveling off Samsung will soon hit that same wall with their flagship, it's just a matter of when.
iPhone sales growth is not leveling off. Neither is the growth of Samsung handset sales.



 

Vegastouch

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I dont really care who is making the most profit. I get none of their profits so why would i care who is making more?

Samsung isnt going anywhere and have hundreds more products than Apple does so maybe thats why they can get away with having less profits on their phones, etc....they have many more of them. Apple on the other hand....if they had everything in their phones that Samsung does, the phone might cost a lot more.
Afterall, they charge $100 just for double the memory while Samsung is half that, plus give you the option of adding your own.
 

Brandon263

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I find this graph more telling of how the rest of this year is going to play out.

Image
The graph you uploaded shows that over the short term (9 quarters isn't really enough for an adequate comparison, you'd need 20 quarters or more for that), Samsung has been growing faster than Apple and that Apple's profits fell in the latest quarter (as did Samsung's by the way). In essence, the graph shows short-term trends, which may or may not continue in the long run.

A more useful and predictive graph would also include information on profit vs revenue (and perhaps also customer satisfaction and usage patterns to see which company will hold on to its customers for the long haul). In Q1 2013, Apple made $9.5 billion in net profit on revenue of $43.6 billion; in comparison, Samsung made $6.45 billion in net profit on revenue of $47.6 billion. This gives a more adequate picture of which company is more valuable (and explains their widely different market caps -- $413 billion for Apple vs. Samsung's $217 billion).
 
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skratch77

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With all the new dev support and new programing sdks with crazy new features that Google io just put out why in the world would Samsung ever compete with android?

They get android for free and are just about to release a pure android gs4 without none of the Samsung ecosystem.

Tizan was a back up plan to android on how the apple lawsuits were going to plan out.

The new gaming sdks that Google is pushing and it's using the heart of the gs4 to base it off of with the Google edition gs4 is what all the devs will use.
 

adder7712

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paulbennett95

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That's just cellphone profit.
I've seem Samsung construction vehicles, generators, industrial tools, etc.
Samsung is a manufacturing powerhouse, cellphones are just one of the many industries that they have their tendrils in.
Apple is the profit king of consumer electronics, that's why they love their "S" revisions, maximizes profit while minimizing R&D costs .
 

skratch77

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I Googled it and it appears it will run Android apps natively along with its own native apps.

http://www.sammobile.com/2013/05/24/samsungs-first-tizen-device-gt-i8800-redwood-showed-up/
That might be first Tizen device, looks it assumes the form factor of the Galaxy S II. Looks like it will have a 4.8 in screen based on the hand of the person holding it.
how can it run android native apps and not be android?The whole android coding in the apps api look at the os and work with its binaries to work right.If tizen can run android apps its just an evolution of touchwiz sitting on top of android

I just did some googling and tizen is made by the Linux foundation and can be installed on any device,its not limited to Samsung and Samsung has a few beta phones running it.
 
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Brandon263

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That's just cellphone profit.
I've seem Samsung construction vehicles, generators, industrial tools, etc.
Samsung is a manufacturing powerhouse, cellphones are just one of the many industries that they have their tendrils in.
Apple is the profit king of consumer electronics, that's why they love their "S" revisions, maximizes profit while minimizing R&D costs .
The graph in my first post is based on cellphone profit, but the numbers I included in my second post are for Samsung Electronics.

Samsung Electronics in the past 5 years or so has consistently made less profit than Apple on all of its business. From January to March 2013, which was Apple's lowest performing quarter in a decade, Apple's made $9.5 billion in net profit on revenue of $43.6 billion; in comparison, Samsung Electronics made $6.45 billion in net profit on revenue of $47.6 billion.

Samsung Group makes less profit (though more revenue) than Samsung Electronics. (See my post below.) The group which includes all of Samsung's construction, entertainment, financial services, hospitality, information and communications technology services, medical services and retail subsidiaries.
 
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skratch77

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The graph in my first post is based on cellphone profit, but the numbers I included in my second post are for Samsung Group (which includes all of Samsung's subsidiaries such as its construction, entertainment, financial services, hospitality, information and communications technology services, medical services and retail companies).

Samsung *Group* in the past 5 years or so has consistently made less profit than Apple on all of its business. From January to March 2013, which was Apple's lowest performing quarter in a decade, Apple's made $9.5 billion in net profit on revenue of $43.6 billion; in comparison, Samsung *Group* made $6.45 billion in net profit on revenue of $47.6 billion.
what are you talking about? Samsung electronics alone made that money

SSNGY market cap of 8.3 billion
SSNLF market cap of 192 billion
SSNHY market cap of 77 billion

Those are a few Samsung companies and Im not even including there heavy industries sector that builds ships and crazy expensive machinery
Samsung made 6 billion profit on the mobile section alone,they freaking spent 4 billion last year in advertising and you think Samsung as a whole only made 6 billion?

I was going to invest heavily in Samsung and going from memory when I looked at all there assets they were as a whole worth over 337 billion and that is not counting the companies they part own like sharp etc.

there total assets as of 2011 are 384 billion and they have built a massive oil and gas project

The world's largest oil and gas project, Sakhalin II- Lunskoye platform under construction. The topside facilities of the LUN-A (Lunskoye) and PA-B (Piltun Astokhskoye) platforms are being built at the Samsung Heavy Industry shipyard in South Korea.[107]

Samsung as a whole is worth more then apple!Since its heavy industries sector is private and they don't report any numbers to anyone I would take stab at it and peg its market cap right around 275-325 billion on top of the other sectors mentioned above.You do know that Samsung builds most of apples guts right? like that pretty retina display in the mac book pro!

We have no idea how much money Samsung is making off its oil rig as they are not on our stock exchange and don't need to report any earnings to the us government but Im pretty sure its a hell of a lot more then 6 billion
 
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Brandon263

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what are you talking about? Samsung electronics alone made that money

SSNGY market cap of 8.3 billion
SSNLF market cap of 192 billion
SSNHY market cap of 77 billion

Those are a few Samsung companies and Im not even including there heavy industries sector that builds ships and crazy expensive machinery
Samsung made 6 billion profit on the mobile section alone,they freaking spent 4 billion last year in advertising and you think Samsung as a whole only made 6 billion?

I was going to invest heavily in Samsung and going from memory when I looked at all there assets they were as a whole worth over 337 billion and that is not counting the companies they part own like sharp etc.

there total assets as of 2011 are 384 billion and they have built a massive oil and gas project

The world's largest oil and gas project, Sakhalin II- Lunskoye platform under construction. The topside facilities of the LUN-A (Lunskoye) and PA-B (Piltun Astokhskoye) platforms are being built at the Samsung Heavy Industry shipyard in South Korea.[107]

Samsung as a whole is worth more then apple!Since its heavy industries sector is private and they don't report any numbers to anyone I would take stab at it and peg its market cap right around 275-325 billion on top of the other sectors mentioned above.You do know that Samsung builds most of apples guts right? like that pretty retina display in the mac book pro!

We have no idea how much money Samsung is making off its oil rig as they are not on our stock exchange and don't need to report any earnings to the us government but Im pretty sure its a hell of a lot more then 6 billion
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My bad. Yes, those stats are for Samsung Electronics. Samsung Group is actually much less profitable than Samsung Electronics (all of this info is available online, actually).

In FY2012, Samsung Electronics made $22 billion in profit on revenue of $188 billion.

In FY2012, Samsung Group made $18.3 billion in profit on revenue of $247.5 billion.

This compares to Apple, which made $41 billion in profit on revenue of $156 billion in FY2012.
 

skratch77

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My bad. Yes, those stats are for Samsung Electronics. Samsung Group is actually much less profitable than Samsung Electronics (all of this info is available online, actually).

In FY2012, Samsung Electronics made $22 billion in profit on revenue of $188 billion.

In FY2012, Samsung Group made $18.3 billion in profit on revenue of $247.5 billion.

This compares to Apple, which made $41 billion in profit on revenue of $156 billion in FY2012.
Samsung has 9 more sectors that you are forgetting about and there biggest money maker is there heavy industries sector and that is a private market cap
and from your numbers above Samsung with those 2 segments tied apple in profit
 

Brandon263

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Samsung has 9 more sectors that you are forgetting about and there biggest money maker is there heavy industries sector and that is a private market cap
Did you even look at the links? The second figure includes all of Samsung *Group's* subsidiaries including its public and private companies.
 

skratch77

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Did you even look at the links? The second figure includes all of Samsung *Group's* subsidiaries including its public and private companies.
Samsung does not post its private sectors numbers

if you look up SMSHF witch is there heavy industries segment is shows zero info across the whole stock