Introducing the 2011 Chevrolet Volt!

[nep61]

Does anyone realize that the car needs to be plugged in to an outlet in the home overnight to charge the batteries.... and that will in turn drive your electric costs up? We all hate to pay FOREIGN countries for oil but, what happens when we begin to hate our own electric companies for jacking the price up because of the incredible demand....??

Remember what happened to that GREAT idea of using CORN for ethanol?? That ALTERNATIVE IDEA fell flat. The price of grain & feed & wheat went up sky high and caused food prices everywhere to go up, up, up.

The current HYBRID idea (Gas & Electric) is smart. We just have to find a way to make the batteries last longer. Using oil to make gas isn't a crime, where we buy the oil from is. There is plenty of Natural Gas in the US.

Making and/or building a car which doesn't rely on an extension cord is what's needed.

The Chevy Volt is a great idea. But, if that idea takes off, the real DRAIN I see will be the one from our pockets, and not as much from our Power Outlets.

 

[Thanatoast]

I wouldn't call it one of the ugliest cars on the road, but it does seem that American manufacturers are really having trouble figuring out what's appealing. Except Cadillac, I like Cadillac.

On the other hand, I think the series hybrid idea is an excellent one. Reduced complexity and better mileage than parallel.

Only part is, I can't figure out what's taking them so long or making it so expensive? The tech has been around forever, it seems like it should just be a matter of finding a spot for each piece...

 

[iJohnHenry]

Correct on the drain on the electric grid.

But remember, the recharging will occur overnight, during low demand.

Hydro and wind cannot be stored, so it's not a problem keeping them going. Nuclear can continue at peek efficiency overnight, when they might otherwise dampen the reactors.

This leaves oil/coal/natural gas as negatives in the car's regenerative process.

 

[quagmire]

Does anyone realize that the car needs to be plugged in to an outlet in the home overnight to charge the batteries.... and that will in turn drive your electric costs up? We all hate to pay FOREIGN countries for oil but, what happens when we begin to hate our own electric companies for jacking the price up because of the incredible demand....??

Remember what happened to that GREAT idea of using CORN for ethanol?? That ALTERNATIVE IDEA fell flat. The price of grain & feed & wheat went up sky high and caused food prices everywhere to go up, up, up.

The current HYBRID idea (Gas & Electric) is smart. We just have to find a way to make the batteries last longer. Using oil to make gas isn't a crime, where we buy the oil from is. There is plenty of Natural Gas in the US.

Making and/or building a car which doesn't rely on an extension cord is what's needed.

The Chevy Volt is a great idea. But, if that idea takes off, the real DRAIN I see will be the one from our pockets, and not as much from our Power Outlets.

You don't have to plug it in. It has a gas engine that turns a generator to charge the battery. But, if you don't want to use gas and drive less then 40 miles in a day, you can plug it in.

 

[GSMiller]

There are rumors that GM may sell these things at a loss to:

1. Gain marketshare from Toyota
2. Increase volume to allow GM to negotiate better prices from their suppliers based on larger buys

This could allow them to bring the costs down a little faster and come to a break even point within a couple of years of introduction. Therefore, GM may still sell them at $30-35K and lose a little on each one.

Hickman

Yeah the Volt will almost certainly be sold at a loss, much like the Cobalt is at current.

 

[wordmunger]

Does anyone realize that the car needs to be plugged in to an outlet in the home overnight to charge the batteries.... and that will in turn drive your electric costs up? We all hate to pay FOREIGN countries for oil but, what happens when we begin to hate our own electric companies for jacking the price up because of the incredible demand....?

According to this site it's about $1 to charge a plug-in hybrid. If you spend more than $1 per day on gas [aka you go more than about 12 miles a day] you're going to want to plug this thing in rather than use gas.

 

[nep61]

According to this site it's about $1 to charge a plug-in hybrid. If you spend more than $1 per day on gas [aka you go more than about 12 miles a day] you're going to want to plug this thing in rather than use gas.

If that site is correct, then I stand corrected. So, according to that web site, it would cost about $4 to "Fill" the tank. Not bad.

Also, it takes 5 1/2 hours to fully charge... might not be appealing to some who do a lot of long distance traveling.

 

[TEG]

Does anyone realize that the car needs to be plugged in to an outlet in the home overnight to charge the batteries.... and that will in turn drive your electric costs up? We all hate to pay FOREIGN countries for oil but, what happens when we begin to hate our own electric companies for jacking the price up because of the incredible demand....??

Remember what happened to that GREAT idea of using CORN for ethanol?? That ALTERNATIVE IDEA fell flat. The price of grain & feed & wheat went up sky high and caused food prices everywhere to go up, up, up.

The current HYBRID idea (Gas & Electric) is smart. We just have to find a way to make the batteries last longer. Using oil to make gas isn't a crime, where we buy the oil from is. There is plenty of Natural Gas in the US.

Making and/or building a car which doesn't rely on an extension cord is what's needed.

The Chevy Volt is a great idea. But, if that idea takes off, the real DRAIN I see will be the one from our pockets, and not as much from our Power Outlets.

Charging from an outlet is only an option. Otherwise, the battery is charged by the gasoline generator. Not to mention that both US primary presidential candidates want to increase power generation using cleaner sources, and this shouldn't take all that much more power. Not to mention that the Hippies have been screaming for a plug-in hybrid for years, and this, along with the new Prius, are just to appease them

Also, about the ethanol debacle, the biggest problem it that it take several times the energy to create ethanol than it will ever return. Not to mention the 50 gallons of water needed for one gallon of ethanol. At least bio-diesel actually produces the same power that diesel does.

TEG

 

[dmw007]

I'll keep my BMW, but hats off to GM for producing the Volt. I have been interested in this car since it was a concept- looks like in a couple years I can check this car out in person at the dealership.

 

[ErikCLDR]

Why is there a dumbass standing in front of the car in all the photos?

Anyway, it looks hideous from the side.

I think its hideous. It's overly aggressive and chunky looking, especially for a small car. Also, although the high trunk apparently looks "cool" its going to make it impossible to see out the back.

My biggest question is will they come with a mag-safe power adapter?

 

[madoka]

Well the Insight is about to come out. It gets 61-mpg in the city and 68-mpg on the highway. Lets assume you drive an average of 15,000 miles per year at 60 MPG. Then you would use 250 gallons at say $4 per gallon. So you end up spending $1000 per year. Since the Volt is $40K and the Insight is $20K, you'd have to drive the Volt more than 20 years to make up for the initial cost.

. . . the Volt is doomed.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...xNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNob25kYS1pbnNpZ2h0

 

[wordmunger]

Well the Insight is about to come out. It gets 61-mpg in the city and 68-mpg on the highway. Lets assume you drive an average of 15,000 miles per year at 60 MPG. Then you would use 250 gallons at say $4 per gallon. So you end up spending $1000 per year. Since the Volt is $40K and the Insight is $20K, you'd have to drive the Volt more than 20 years to make up for the initial cost.

. . . the Volt is doomed.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...xNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNob25kYS1pbnNpZ2h0

Once again, that's the European standard -- US mileage will be lower. And it's not a plug-in hybrid. I think we're just going to have to wait and see on this one.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Once again, that's the European standard -- US mileage will be lower. And it's not a plug-in hybrid. I think we're just going to have to wait and see on this one.

Most people have guessed that the fuel economy of the new Insight (gawd, I'd wish Honda had gotten a better name!) will be very similar to the current Prius based on the 2008 standard EPA ratings (48 miles per US gallon or 4.9 liters per 100 kilometers city driving, 45 miles per US gallon or 5.23 liters per 100 kilometers highway driving). Honda might be able to improve on this by careful control of the CVT transmission changes between ratios and by using the new Advanced VTEC variable-timing valvetrain on the 1.3 to 1.5-liter I-4 engine. This is very good considering that vehicle has to meet the California AT-PZEV emissions standard (equivalent to circa EPA Tier 2 Bin 3), the most stringent emissions standard in the world for an internal-combustion vehicle.

 

[quagmire]

Well the Insight is about to come out. It gets 61-mpg in the city and 68-mpg on the highway. Lets assume you drive an average of 15,000 miles per year at 60 MPG. Then you would use 250 gallons at say $4 per gallon. So you end up spending $1000 per year. Since the Volt is $40K and the Insight is $20K, you'd have to drive the Volt more than 20 years to make up for the initial cost.

. . . the Volt is doomed.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...xNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNob25kYS1pbnNpZ2h0

We don't know the price of the Volt yet. Plus, 48 MPG is what the EPA's tests will limit it to. In the real world it should get ~160 MPG due to its 40 mile range. That assumes you'll not be plugging it in either. You can never use gas on the Volt.

 

[joepunk]

I wish Chevy/GM would sell The Chevrolet Beat in the states. Unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon. GM should take the styling from the Beat and copy it onto the Volt. I find the Volt awful to look at. Though it could be the ugly mug-shots of people who have to have their faces planted in-front of the car.

 

[jbernie]

I thought the shredded EV1 got 120-something (miles or kilometres, don't care) per charge, without the weight of ANY infernal combustion engine???

Why are they holding-out on that, but giving us a hybrid first?

Pretty simple, the EV1 was electric only, so once the batteries used up the charge you were stuck until you got the car to a place where you could recharge. The Volt on the other hand has batteries but uses gasoline to recharge them if you are away from a charging station, ie the gas engine is a generator for the batteries and doesn't actually drive the wheels as it would in a normal car. Hence the talk about the engine running at a constant speed when it is in use.

Also by doing it this way, there is zero consumer fear of being somewhere and not having any power, unless of course they run out of gas where as with electric only vehicles ala EV1 you could get stranded and could only use an electric source to recharge.

I wish Chevy/GM would sell The Chevrolet Beat in the states. Unfortunately that's not happening anytime soon. GM should take the styling from the Beat and copy it onto the Volt. I find the Volt awful to look at. Though it could be the ugly mug-shots of people who have to have their faces planted in-front of the car.

Yup, but aerodynamics that give better gas mileage generally don't look hip & cool, the Volt has the second best drag coefficent of any GM vehicle, the EV1 having the best.

 

[jbernie]

Remember what happened to that GREAT idea of using CORN for ethanol?? That ALTERNATIVE IDEA fell flat. The price of grain & feed & wheat went up sky high and caused food prices everywhere to go up, up, up.

and e85 based on corn is gen 1, maybe you should read up more on alternative fuels and realize e85 can be produced using corn, grasses, algae, etc, things that do not influence the price of food. Of course the fact that the cost of food went up could not in any way be associated with the cost of diesel going way up either now could it? I mean all that produce just delivers itself to stores around the country and doesnt need diesel powered trucks to move them etc.

 

[madoka]

We don't know the price of the Volt yet. Plus, 48 MPG is what the EPA's tests will limit it to. In the real world it should get ~160 MPG due to its 40 mile range. That assumes you'll not be plugging it in either. You can never use gas on the Volt.

According to Anandtech, the Volt will likely be $40-45K before tax breaks:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=12896

The Insight is projected to be $19K.

http://www.hybridcars.com/compacts-sedans/honda-insight-overview.html

Even if we don't know the exact amounts, the Insight looks better, gets great mileage, is coming to market about a year earlier than the Volt, and wait for it. . . is HALF the cost. Who in their right mind is going to pay $20,000 for the novelty of being able to plug in their car every night?

Not to mention the battery in the Volt is expected to last 10 years. Since a large part of the cost of the car is in it's high-tech batteries, I'd expect the Volt to be not worth maintaining at that point.

Again, the Volt is pointless and doomed.

 

[quagmire]

According to Anandtech, the Volt will likely be $40-45K before tax breaks:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=12896

The Insight is projected to be $19K.

http://www.hybridcars.com/compacts-sedans/honda-insight-overview.html

Even if we don't know the exact amounts, the Insight looks better, gets great mileage, is coming to market about a year earlier than the Volt, and wait for it. . . is HALF the cost. Who in their right mind is going to pay $20,000 for the novelty of being able to plug in their car every night?

Not to mention the battery in the Volt is expected to last 10 years. Since a large part of the cost of the car is in it's high-tech batteries, I'd expect the Volt to be not worth maintaining at that point.

Again, the Volt is pointless and doomed.

Looks: Subjective

Fuel economy: ~48 MPG( Insight) vs ~160 MPG( Volt and choose not to plug in and have it charge via the engine). Volt wins.

Cost: No duh Insight is cheaper. It uses a tried and true hybrid system. The Volt is a different type of hybrid. Most of it is brand new( for a car, trains use a similar system). The Lithium battery( Prius and Insight uses nickel which is cheaper) is going to be expensive, etc.

People thought the Prius was doomed when it came out. Look at it now. Don't underestimate what the American consumer is willing to spend to be "in". They spent $50K for a Tahoe, why won't they do the same for the Volt(once the economy improves of course)? Hell, Americans are paying a lot more for BMW's over Infiniti's. Although Infiniti's compete fairly well with BMW's; Americans buy BMW's due to image.

To the battery life, the Prius's battery is projected to last 10 years or so as well. So how is that a negative for the Volt?

Plugging in is not a novelty. It will be cheaper to charge the Volt via the outlet( plus even though dirty it uses US sourced coal vs foreign oil) then to fill it up with gas( if you drive less then 40 miles a day and never have the gas engine start up).

 

[madoka]

Don't underestimate what the American consumer is willing to spend to be "in". They spent $50K for a Tahoe, why won't they do the same for the Volt(once the economy improves of course)? Hell, Americans are paying a lot more for BMW's over Infiniti's. Although Infiniti's compete fairly well with BMW's; Americans buy BMW's due to image.

Yet a page ago:

You're giving the American consumer too much credit thinking they're actually going to do some research. 51% of them are not considering domestics. If they do all they will see is the EPA rating and think, " Why does the Volt cost $40K when the Prius costs $23K and both get the same mileage? Plus, Toyota makes perfect products." There will be nothing drawing in consumers to the Volt as on paper it doesn't beat the Prius in any way. There is no incentive to take a "risk" with a domestic brand.

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth! Rather than respond, I'll just let you argue with yourself some more.

 

[quagmire]

Yet a page ago:



Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth! Rather than respond, I'll just let you argue with yourself some more.

Because I was arguing against the way the EPA wants to test the Volt because it will cripple the sales because the consumer won't do more research and see that the Volt will get in reality ~160 MPG. If the EPA tests the Volt like any other car and see how long it will go before the tank is empty, people will see that 160 MPG or so figure and then decide if it is worth the extra money. They might due to the high MPG figure and the fact that they can potentially never use a drop of gas.

Oh, I see what you meant. My bad.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Joepunk,

Actually, GM is seriously considering selling the Beat in the USA, probably powered by a 1.5-liter Ecotec (similiar to the engine on the Opel Corsa) rated at around 107 bhp. However, GM may end up selling a US version of the Corsa instead, mostly because engineering the Corsa to meet NHTSA safety regulations is much easier.

 

[Les Kern]

The new EPA test is what it is -- but also if you look at the real world reports on the other hybrids, very, very few users were ever getting fuel economy numbers that matched the EPA estimates under the old formulation for the Prius, Civic Hybrid, or Insight...

They say the old formulations were too high, so added what they called "real world driving". I have a Smart, and am averaging 43.7, where the EPA says 33/42 with about a 38 average. Last two tanks were an average of FIFTY. So take it with a grain of salt. A careful driver with no lead foot will most certainly crush the EPA's estimates.

 

[joepunk]

SactoGuy18

If you find something more recent than this post it

The Beat will not be sold in the US. The reason, he reportedly states, is that the car has not been engineered to meet the country's crash laws.

 

[quagmire]

SactoGuy18

If you find something more recent than this post it

It's BS. The Beat should be in the US in 2011-2012 or so. It is also going to be in Transformers 2 and they wouldn't plug a product in an American movie that wasn't going to be sold in the US.