iOS 10 and OS X 10.12 to Feature Improvements to Photos App

[manu chao]

Somehow other OSes can live without polluting every pendrive and network file system.
While OS X creates gazzilions of junk files just to remember icon position and tags in folders.
And the worst part is that this is mandatory. Even on remote FS mounted over slow internet.

As I said BlueHarvest is your friend.

Trash folder is also misconception. If you delete something on your pendrive and unmount it then it is still there, only in different location.
That causes issues with media players or DLNA servers for example, that scans whole disks and find deleted data in Trash.

So, you would like to get rid of the concept of the Trash folder and have things deleted completely when you select 'Delete'?

Every app can work in jailed sandbox, you must just prepare sandbox the way application is expecting.

As in the whole file system for a backup application for example. And you probably don't want to know how Dropbox operated until about two years ago to get the icons that indicate the status of a file or folder (injecting code into running executables).

The issue today is, that every application can see EVERY FILE ON YOUR WHOLE FILESYSTEM.

Not every application, Mac App Store applications don't, they are all sandboxed. And you know how many people would cry murder if suddenly it would be impossible for any app to reach all parts of the OS. There are tons of Unix tools that would break.

Doesn't matter if it's Server.app or puzzle game.
Every application has access to your configuration files and full access to network so possibilities of malware code injections are endless.

You can always restrict your Mac to Mac App Store apps only. It's right there in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > General. Beyond that, to access stuff outside your home folder, any application installer needs your permission by asking for an admin password.

You are right, sandboxing is helpful in increasing security (and this is why Mac App Store apps are sandboxed) but you have provided no solution how the sandbox could be tailored for each app. One could make it mandatory for every app to register its tailor-made sandbox with the OS but who is controlling that the registered sandbox is appropriate and not too generous? There is no magic bullet (unless you go as far as iOS but good luck with defending such a position publicly).

 

[-hh]

Hallelujah! It's absurd that at this point, Photos can't even share its contents with Apple's own apps like Final Cut without ridiculous workarounds. Apple's apps give the laughable direction to "Open Photos if you want to see your photos". Its as if the software were released half-finished and then Apple moved on to other things.

Yes, it is quite obvious that Photos shipped a "0.6" beta. And it is still only barely an "0.8" The prospects of this rumor are that we might finally get it up to around an "0.9"

I still don't understand why Apple discontinued Aperture and iPhoto.

Because iOS.

Anything is good. Photos is keeping me from upgrading my OSX.

Not only OS X, because that also means no new Macintosh Hardware, since they're not old-OS-version backwards compatible. I priced out how much it would cost me to replace one of my Mac Pros ... and the answer was very disturbing: $2000 (per node!) more than if the classic MP tower still existed, which also means around $2000 (or +30%) more than a comparable Windows PC.

Thus, "Photos" is prompting me to very seriously consider replacing our Macs with Windows.

Just finally got used to 'Photos' and resigned myself to the changes, after the transition from iPhoto.

Screw that: when the tool no longer works for you, go buy a different brand tool.

Yes, that's a very unpopular sentiment on a Mac 'Fanbody' site, but speaking as a MR poster of many many moons ... and as an Apple customer of more than 3 decades ... the customer comes first.

1) I don't have unlimited data...

Agreed. Someone needs to go force the Apple Teams (all of them) to go live on nothing better than a minimum DSL connection for a year to see just how far Apple's "Value Paradigm" has fallen because of how much stuff has been tied to an assumption of immediate gratification because of an infinitely fat pipe.

How about, when I import 100 folders full of carefully organized pictures from a PC users computer into their new Mac, the photos app doesn't totally Newkay all of their organization? How about it automatically creates albums corresponding to those folders? Is anyone at Apple actually using this product the way that normal users do? It absolutely boggles the mind.

As a first step, I would have settled for an iPhoto --> Photos database app that actually worked. Apple QA failed them here because they assumed that anyone with an iPhoto library couldn't have been one that had been upgraded a few times from older versions of iPhoto.

Yes, you know, once you posted this idea I can't get rid of it from my head.

We could set up/establish some older Mac, Mac mini, older Mac Pro (sometimes you can get it cheap on auctions), and adjust it to our needs, space, caching settings (that it would generate some thumbnails) for faster viewing.

This would be huge, we wouldn't have to pay for iCloud storage and still have it well integrated with iOS.

Yes, that would be huge - - my one account would easily save over $1200 per year ... but since this also means I could buy a brand new Mac mini & drive array every year with the savings, it is obvious that Apple won't do this. Sorry.

I benefit greatly from being able to sort through all the images that are on my iPhone (essentially those taken with the iPhone) using my Mac. Much easier than trying to do this on the iPhone.

Of course, if I had to use Photos to organise the images I take with 'real' cameras, that would be a disaster. But that is not what Photos is made for (though you can use for that if you only do some light organisational work with your 'real camera' images). Photos is made for people who don't want to do any organisational work, you largely consider their images as a single, long timeline (with occasionally picking some images and put them into an album for easy access).

The beauty of iPhoto is that those who needed more data organization could do more.
The weakness of Photos is that these same people now cannot.

You are describing how I feel about almost every product Apple has released lately.

Its the consequence of how iOS has become the "800lb Gorilla" that colors every business decision that Apple makes.

Preach brother. What Photos app did, the dumbing down, it's absolutely indefensible, I'm not sure how anyone is attempting to defend it considering Apple killed both Aperture and iPhoto and gave no good pathway for users that had invested heavily in them.

The pathway is Adobe Lightroom for the near term, and when the Mac hardware needs to be replaced, Windows. The Mac ecosystem is being systematically pruned down which is killing how it used to be the value-added product differentiation.

I think they're weaning users off OS X running on Intel: preparing for a switch to ARM-only devices.

Everything points to a future for Apple without Intel: the software changes, Steve saying that Apple needs to own the silicon to make really great hardware, products like the iPad Pro and the MacBook which both run close to low-end Intel performance, Apple being slow to adopt Intel's sluggish updates, advances in ARM performance, etc.

The signs are there for Apple to drop Intel, IMO.

That's fine, but that is ignoring how Apple is strategically providing their customers a product that is differentiated (& thus, worth paying more for) by what it can do for them.

And Apple while you are at it: Bring back the 5-Star rating system and color labels.

Yes, with the recognition that the 5-Star and colors (& others) were all various tools for the management of data, which far transcends the mere retouching of a photo. That is what has been lost with the Photos dog food.

-hh

 

[topdrawer]

No one has ever been forced to update.

i meant nagged on a daily basis till you do update

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

And you sound a weeny bit a like a grumpy old main.

Cook is making Apple into a more arrogant company? May I ask who was the one telling people that they were holding their phone wrong? Apple has become noticeably more open under Cook, you can start with public betas and go on with many more interviews (how many interviews with Apple executives that weren't Jobs happened during the Jobs years?).

Look at what they have done to Mac OSX and lower-end Macs. They killed the Mac Mini, the killed the low-end iMac, et al. Their software (such as iTunes) is melting into a crap puddle, and they think it's fine and dandy. Meanwhile, experience, loyal users are getting smacked in the face because Apple is choosing more to appeal to first-time users, as they want to convert people rather than please the customers they already have.

 

[ShinySteelRobot]

I love events, and thus i use iPhoto still. I've got literally 10 years of photos organised into events, and while you can view them in photos, its by a crappy side menu and you can't create new events.
[doublepost=1456445071][/doublepost]
Moments are not the same thing as events. They're a half version. Not good enough when you have 10 years worth of organised events.


On another note, I'm still annoyed that Apple decided to make iPhoto not work with iOS 8. I purchased the iPhoto App and apple purposefully stopped it working, and didn't replace the functionality in photos. Very very poor move.

I would upvote your post 100 times if I could. Agree completely. Photos is a train wreck if you are a long time Apple iPhoto user with lots of Events.

 

[Dranix]

And I hope it stays so - Or all my work on a Aperture replacement would be a waste... But it sound like I'll find here some beta testers when it is stable enough for broader testing

 

[davemchine]

I still can't over how Photos ditched iPhoto Events. I know they're in there somewhere, but finding them ain't intuitive. And I miss badly the ability to group and label batches of imported photos. It seems like the obvious thing people would want to do with their photos. (Am I missing some easy way to do this in Photo?)

This is what holds me back from switching from iPhoto to Photos. Losing the ability to group my pictures is a complete deal breaker. Converting events into albums is not a workable solution.

 

[^^BIGMac]

Think I am finally going to jump to Capture One Pro 9. Can't rely one Apple letting Aperture run much long on the latest OS. So far so good but you know Apple! Aperture was never good 'for us'.

Photos is just not gonna get the job done any time soon.

 

[SkippyThorson]

Interesting. The biggest thing keeping me out of using iCloud Photo Library is the mess it seems to make of your photos.

Having taken photos on holiday, I like to put the ones I want to keep into an album and delete the rest (clearing my camera roll). When I turned iCloud Photo Library on, my camera roll disappeared and "All Photos" showed me everything - stuff that was in an album, stuff that wasn't. My latest photos from WhatsApp, my latest camera roll photos riiiighhtt the way back to the oldest photo in the oldest album in Photos.

If there was a "unfiled Photos" album. Or a "Camera Roll" album that existed in the cloud (but that I could edit & delete from any iCloud device) that would solve the problem, I'd pay for more iCloud storage and be a very happy camper.

That's spot on. I couldn't agree with it more. It's the only iCloud feature I don't use because I like control over where my photos go before they're just hopelessly tossed around all my devices in a massive cluster-frig.

Does anyone else feel like major OS and iOS updates are a little let down these days? I used to impatiently wait for events due to major updates and overhauls to products. Now it sounds like even the next iPad / iPhone hardware revisions will be lackluster.

The schedule needs to stop - namely with software. A major OS should not be called a 10.X update just because of an update to the photos app. iOS 10 should have been the biggest deal yet.

Perhaps I'm wrong and OS 11 and iOS 11 will be the big rumored merger we're all wondering about. I don't think they two can be separate entities for much longer. iCloud is great for data syncing, but more desktop-class ability out of a device larger than some ultra books and MacBooks / Airs would be welcome.

I'm an early iPad lover and have lost interest solely due to lack of unique support from the iPhone / iPod touch. A device of that screen size has much more potential, but yet is running the same core OS as its much smaller siblings. I'll come back to it when features like multi-app support are the norm, and not reserved for the latest tablet. iOS on the iPad is so behind

Let's get off the schedule thing. It's like features are being made up and forced to call it a "major update" when in reality a core app update is the only change. Photos is great and all, but...

/rant

 

[jjduru]

That's already available on the desktop. Follow the link, Windows - Microsoft

Really? I mean really? The level of ignorant self-sufficiency in your statement is staggering.

 

[davemchine]

Think I am finally going to jump to Capture One Pro 9. Can't rely one Apple letting Aperture run much long on the latest OS. So far so good but you know Apple! Aperture was never good 'for us'.

Photos is just not gonna get the job done any time soon.

What makes Capture One Pro great? I've never heard of it but I'm interested.
[doublepost=1456586216][/doublepost]BTW, I tried Google Photos the other day and was blown away by the search capabilities. I can type "dog" into the search field and see all the pictures of my dog! Apple is way behind with this type of indexing.

 

[gulyabani]

And I hope it stays so - Or all my work on a Aperture replacement would be a waste... But it sound like I'll find here some beta testers when it is stable enough for broader testing

sign me up! what is it?

 

[Dranix]

sign me up! what is it?

It will be months till a first beta.

I'm currently working on the management part, so the first version will be kinda Aperture without editing or Bridge. When this is real stable I shift work to the development/editing mode.

Reason for this is: I'm always astounded how bad management of photos is in all other apps...

 

[antmarobel]

As a matter of fact this 10.12 will be needing a lot of "improvements" not only in Photo, which I don't use cause iPhoto is so much better!

 

[TheMTtakeover]

Why would they unbundle it? Makes no sense. Photos are essential to the OS. Everyone takes and manages photos.
[doublepost=1456431947][/doublepost]

I just use the finder to mange my photos that are in folders. I don't think the photos app has the same necessity on Mac OS that it does on iOS because iOS doesn't have a file manager.

 

[^^BIGMac]

What makes Capture One Pro great? I've never heard of it but I'm interested.
[doublepost=1456586216][/doublepost]BTW, I tried Google Photos the other day and was blown away by the search capabilities. I can type "dog" into the search field and see all the pictures of my dog! Apple is way behind with this type of indexing.

Lot of great features. Maybe the closest to Aperture.

Their RAW Engine said to be the best in the biz. The program is a little pricey ($299) but...they seem committed to keep the darn thing going.

They offer a 30 day free trial.

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Software/Capture-One-Pro/Highlights.aspx

 

[thekeyring]

That's spot on. I couldn't agree with it more. It's the only iCloud feature I don't use because I like control over where my photos go before they're just hopelessly tossed around all my devices in a massive cluster-frig.

Does anyone else feel like major OS and iOS updates are a little let down these days? I used to impatiently wait for events due to major updates and overhauls to products. Now it sounds like even the next iPad / iPhone hardware revisions will be lackluster.

The schedule needs to stop - namely with software. A major OS should not be called a 10.X update just because of an update to the photos app. iOS 10 should have been the biggest deal yet.

Perhaps I'm wrong and OS 11 and iOS 11 will be the big rumored merger we're all wondering about. I don't think they two can be separate entities for much longer. iCloud is great for data syncing, but more desktop-class ability out of a device larger than some ultra books and MacBooks / Airs would be welcome.

I'm an early iPad lover and have lost interest solely due to lack of unique support from the iPhone / iPod touch. A device of that screen size has much more potential, but yet is running the same core OS as its much smaller siblings. I'll come back to it when features like multi-app support are the norm, and not reserved for the latest tablet. iOS on the iPad is so behind

Let's get off the schedule thing. It's like features are being made up and forced to call it a "major update" when in reality a core app update is the only change. Photos is great and all, but...

/rant

They will remain seperate. If a merger was coming tvOS and watchOS would just be iOS.

Also, it depends what you mean by 'these days'. iOS 5 and 6 didn't seem to be major overhauls just useful user facing features and more APIs for developers - same as OS X now.

Currently were at a point where the major update - 9.0 for example - brings developers updates and major API changes and smaller updates (9.3) bring user facing features. Just as most of us don't study the OS or make apps, we only see a handful of user facing features.

 

[Parasprite]

That doesn't work on certain sites. It would be cool if you could access your photo library in the finder.

I don't mean the website, I mean the "select file" panel that pops up when uploading. If you drag a file into that it will go to wherever that file is and select it.

 

[chucker23n1]

Bring "Drag'n Drop" ability to Word and other Programs - Directly out of "Photos" -
without that sh...t to past/copy first on Desktop and then be able to Past/copy it into Word

The other end (i.e., Word) needs to implement a new drag & drop type. https://twitter.com/rosyna/status/697100629374664704

The reason is that photos aren't necessarily actually available as files. So when you drag them to Finder, which supports the new type, Photos knows to first ensure the photo is downloaded. That's why doing that intermediary step works — but if Microsoft supports the new protocol directly, it won't be necessary.
[doublepost=1456669856][/doublepost]

My wish list for 10.12:

I thought Photos was the topic, but sure.

1. OS X will stop defecating with ._, .Trashes, .fseventsd, .Spotlight-V100 to all pendrives and mounted network file systems! Stop this crap! Seriously!

Why? Why are you looking at "that crap"? There's a reason it's hidden. Why would you not want the OS to store metadata?

1. Ancient HFS+ should be replaced with something modern and more responsive. It would be awesome if they use something like brtfs instead of reinventing the wheel.
2. Time machine backup is slow and limited. Maybe with modern FS they will be able to make more compact and smarter snapshots.

So, you want less metadata… but then you want a smarter filesystem with more metadata. Got it.

1. Increased application security. Running applications in isolated containers. ACL to system resources, and so on.

More and more apps are running in sandboxes. Most of MS Office, for instance.

1. Tidy up system directories. There is huge mess of unix legacy and own solutions (/home vs /Users, /var/log vs /Application/Server/*/Logs and many more).

That would be nice, but frankly seems way, way, way low on anyone's list of priorities. Yes, I miss the days when you could take the folder named System, drag it onto another drive, drop, and you have a bootable volume. Magic. But in practice, that's hardly relevant.
[doublepost=1456671574][/doublepost]

However, Jobs would not have subtracted so much from Mac OS and Apple's other software.

Yeah. For instance, Jobs wouldn't have shipped OS X 10.0 without disc burning and DVD playback, right?

Jobs was always a fan of "we can add it back later if we have to". Photos isn't the way it is because Jobs is gone; I have no reason to believe it'd be significantly different with him around. Federighi and Schiller are totally carrying his torch in that regard.

It doesn't take a genius to realize the changes that have been made under Cook, and why such changes wouldn't have happened under Jobs. It's obvious.

A "wouldn't have happened under Jobs" argument isn't "obvious"; rather, it's lazy, far too common, entirely speculative, and more often than not entirely wrong.

There's a difference between someone who puts their soul into a company and someone who works there just to maximize profits as much as possible and boost their salary at the same time. Bad management is why Apple almost died in the 1990s.

How, pray tell, does the free Photos app (compared to iPhoto, which under Jobs cost money) "maximize profits"? iCloud? Hardly even a blip in their revenue. It's precisely the other way 'round, has been for a long time: the software is there to sell more hardware. Photos is there to make people upgrade their Macs (Retina Display), iPhones (better camera) and iPads.
[doublepost=1456671686][/doublepost]

Trash folder is also misconception. If you delete something on your pendrive and unmount it then it is still there, only in different location.
That causes issues with media players or DLNA servers for example, that scans whole disks and find deleted data in Trash.

It's almost as though you're describing the whole point of a trash!

 

[theskog]

I want graphical improvements. El Cap's animations are so inefficient and slow.

Or maybe they could get rid of animations altogether and focus on functionality instead.

Zero animations = significantly less memory consumed in garbage.

 

[Vjosullivan]

Just having the ability to turn it off would be nice.

 

[bbkr]

Why? Why are you looking at "that crap"? There's a reason it's hidden. Why would you not want the OS to store metadata?

Because it's hidden only in OS X Finder. Every other OS shows and scans those files. That's why I explicitly said "pendrives and network file systems", a points where there is some OS interoperability. So pocket media players, DLNA players, backup solutions other than TimeCapsule, code repositories, sync mechanisms and many more are affected by OS X metadata files.

So, you want less metadata… but then you want a smarter filesystem with more metadata. Got it.

Filesystem metadata is not visible the same way as OS X metadata files.


So yes, I believe central database of OS X metadata on local machine is better solution.
If my machine indexed spotlight according to my settings or on my machine files were reordered on directory view by me then no other machine or user gives a sh*t about it. There is no need of creating those metadata files in every folder seen by OS X.

Let's say you borrowed me a book, and I gave it back to you with extra pages glued in with my own gibberish notes and thoughts you don't want or even cannot understand. That's what OS X is doing right now. And there is no easy way to stop it (installing separate 3rd party app - BlueHarvest - just to solve such simple issue is a joke).

 

[chucker23n1]

Because it's hidden only in OS X Finder. Every other OS shows and scans those files.

What gave you that idea? They're dotfiles, so they're invisible in Unix. And in Windows, they get the hidden flag. They're not user-visible.

That's why I explicitly said "pendrives and network file systems",

I just tested it on a SMB server. Windows Server 2012 R2. They're hidden.

I don't care to test this on a "pendrive" — chances are you aren't correct about that either. Be more specific about where OS X doesn't hide the files correctly.

So pocket media players, DLNA players, backup solutions other than TimeCapsule, code repositories, sync mechanisms and many more are affected by OS X metadata files.

You're conflating a lot of random stuff here. If pocket media players and DLNA players show hidden files, that's on them, not on OS X. Heck, even if they weren't hidden, what makes them think they can, uh, "play" a plist? Or a resource fork? Do they not, y'know, read metadata to figure out if they support the format?

Code repositories have an ignore function. Virtually every IDE, OS, whatever leaves behind metadata that you put in there. Be it .xcodeuser files, .csproj.user files, .suo files, etc.

Finally, backup solutions? You want a backup without metadata? What?

Filesystem metadata is not visible the same way as OS X metadata files.

These files are only necessary in the first place because of lesser legacy file systems.

So yes, I believe central database of OS X metadata on local machine is better solution.

Good luck moving that between machines. On, like, your "pendrive", for instance.

 

[ignatius345]

I'd love to see some smarter management of RAW files. I shoot JPEG+RAW, but only keep the RAW file in the small number of cases where I think I might want to do a lot more processing or make a big print later -- right now, if you do the default import workflow, there's no way of tossing out the RAW file, so you end up with a gigantic library. So I resort to just importing JPEGs into Photos, and keeping a regular old folder in the Finder that has the selected RAW files. It works, but is annoyingly manual.

Aside from switching to Lightroom (which I'm not going to do because I'm really liking iCloud syncing between my phone and two Macs), does anybody have a better solution to managing RAW files?

 

[Ebenezum]

Look at what they have done to Mac OSX and lower-end Macs. They killed the Mac Mini, the killed the low-end iMac, et al. Their software (such as iTunes) is melting into a crap puddle, and they think it's fine and dandy. Meanwhile, experience, loyal users are getting smacked in the face because Apple is choosing more to appeal to first-time users, as they want to convert people rather than please the customers they already have.

Agreed. Lower-end Macs are currently laughable. As for software iTunes is train wreck, Photos is dysfunctional (cutting 40% of iPhotos abilities is supposed to be progress??), newest iWork is much worse compared to 09 version and the list goes on...


As for the article I am curious if Apple can finally bring Photos back from the dead. It might work if one just snaps photos without thought of how to organise them. I have carefully organised events in iPhoto and Photos completely ruined my organisation when I installed Yosemite last year.

El Capitan has only mildly improved Photos and if Apple keeps making improvements at the same rate I estimate Photos might have at the same capability compared to iPhoto in about 4 years time.

Needless to say I plan to stay in iPhoto for the time being but I'm also considering other options.

I hope I am wrong and Apple finally manages to surprise me positively after POS Yosemite, Photos and slightly better El Capitan. I would be over the moon if Photos would finally gain enough features (including import/export functionality that wouldn't strip most of the metadata out of the pictures) and stability to be usable but I am not holding my breath...