iOS 11 UI design.

Discussion in 'iOS 11' started by Old geek 959, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. Doogey, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    Doogey macrumors newbie

    Doogey

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    #476
    I HATE IOS 11 UI...! PLEASE REVERT IT BACK TO SOMETHING BETTET!

    Apple used to lead,, now its a follower of others. This could be the IOS that sends me to Android!
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    Who puts white text on a grey background or grey text against a white background— either way is hard on the eyes...

    And what’s the deal with big blocky section headings? This looks very ugly!

    Previous UI design was much more polished...
     
  2. C DM macrumors Westmere

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    #477
    Things of that type of nature were around in early iOS 10 days as well.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    Which previous design?
     
  3. Beeplance macrumors 65816

    Beeplance

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    #478
    What shoddy quality control... Not the first that I've seen for iOS 11, but it's absolutely appalling that they ship this kind of buggy software even after 3 MONTHS AND 10 BETAS (THE MOST EVER).

    I guess when your company have to support an insane number of iOS devices (5S, 6, 6+, 6S, 6S+, SE, 7, 7+, 8, 8+, X, tons of iPads, iPod Touch), the amount of attention they can divert to general bug fixing goes down.

    Remember the days when Apple's product line was simpler with only 1-2 iPhones? Now they want to give consumers a wide variety of 'choice', but it seems like their software quality can't catch up to that vision.

    So what if it is? We're supposed to lower the bar for Apple's software quality because 'it happened last year'?
     
  4. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    Oct 17, 2011
    #479
    Because it's pretty much always like that with x.0 versions.
     
  5. ThunderMasterMind macrumors 6502a

    ThunderMasterMind

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    Apr 29, 2016
    #480
    I honestly don't know if I should take you seriously or not. Explain to me why my iPad on 6.0.1 only has 2 minor issues, and why 11.0 has so many out the gate.
    The 2 issues on 6.0.1 is a glitch with images in Photos with transparent backgrounds have an overlay effect on other images. It will have a random image behind it, with the actual image on top of it in grid view. If you tap on it, it reacts normally and shows the image you tapped on. The other issue is a little glitch where the volume slider in Music doesn't work. A simple restart of the app fixes it though.

    On iOS 11.0, the list goes on and on and on.

    I think this speaks for itself, you piece it together.
     
  6. GreyOS macrumors 68030

    GreyOS

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    #481
  7. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    Oct 17, 2011
    #482
    Feel fee to browse the iOS 6 forum here (and other places online) and see all kinds of things all kinds of people complained about. It's interesting how people usually focus on "my" or "me" when it's convenient (one way or another).
     
  8. ThunderMasterMind macrumors 6502a

    ThunderMasterMind

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    #483
    Feel free to take note of the significant difference in problems noted in the 6 < 11 forums.
     
  9. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    Oct 17, 2011
    #484
    With a significant difference in the number and variety of devices that are out there and the people using them.
     
  10. ThunderMasterMind macrumors 6502a

    ThunderMasterMind

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    Apr 29, 2016
    #485
    So it looks like I don't even have to mention that Apple needs to make their iOS team larger to catch bugs and glitches in iOS before launch, because you did that for me, bravo!
     
  11. C DM macrumors Westmere

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    #486
    The team could very well be larger and many of those issues could already be known too just not prioritized high enough to block a release for one reason or another.

    No one is saying that things shouldn't or even couldn't be better, just that for the most part they are not that atypical when it comes to major new releases of essentially any software.

    That said, as someone pointed out a few posts ago, this thread isn't really about that aspect of it all.
     
  12. MEJHarrison macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 2, 2009
    #487
    That's a classic fallacy. The theory being if it takes 100 Apple developers a year to build the next iOS, that adding 1,000 more developers will get it done 10x faster or that it will be 10x better. That's not really how development works. Just like 10,000 construction workers can't build a house more efficiently than 15 guys can. It would likely be considerably slower as you now have far too many people getting in the way of real work being accomplished.

    Unless you're intimately familiar with the inner workings of their development shop, saying they need more developers is nothing but an uneducated opinion based on no actual data. It sounds like something that would be said by a non-developer. I've been a developer since the early '90s and I wouldn't even pretend to know how they could improve how they work as I have no idea how they work. Likewise, if an Apple employee sat in his office in California and told me how to fix our development issues here where I work, I'd tell him "unless you're familiar with how and why we do things the way we do, your opinion isn't worth it air it took to utter it". Because it wouldn't be an "informed" opinion.

    So I guess it's a good thing he prevented you from making such a silly statement.
     
  13. ThunderMasterMind macrumors 6502a

    ThunderMasterMind

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    Apr 29, 2016
    #488
    Yeah, and should've been able to piece that together after what I said. If they have enough people, then they need more time, simple as that. I'd prefer things be done right at a later time, then on time lacking quality. I just find it hilarious that you guys are defending Apple so hard on this subject.
     
  14. MEJHarrison macrumors 6502a

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    #489
    Not sure who "you guys" refers to. Certainly not me. The only time I've defended Apple in this thread was when people were attempting to use invalid arguments to prove their point. Such as pointing out flaws in third-party apps to prove Apple's design has gone down the toilet. Or suggesting the answer to the problem is to just hire more people. As a developer, I get a little touchy when people who are completely ignorant about the effort involved in creating an operating system play armchair quarterback. Beyond that, I feel everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of if I agree or not.
     
  15. C DM macrumors Westmere

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    Oct 17, 2011
    #490
    https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...g-earpiece-issue.2074887/page-5#post-25167452

    Also, silly part is thinking that everything is either one thing or another--just because people don't agree with everything that is said and/or to the degree and with the way it is said, doesn't somehow mean they are the "enemy". Having rational plausible take on things doesn't mean defending something, it just means facing reality.

    That said, again, this isn't really what this thread is actually about.
     
  16. ThunderMasterMind macrumors 6502a

    ThunderMasterMind

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    #491
    Keep in mind that most 3rd party apps follow in unity with the design behind the OS.
     
  17. MEJHarrison macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    #492
    Keep in mind that Apple still doesn't design their UI.

    I will absolutely call out someone any time they point out a poor UI from a third party and places the blame at Apple's feet. I've done so a couple times already in this thread. Do you blame Betty Crocker if your cake turns out like crap because you suck at following directions? Do you blame Home Depot if that DIY home project looks bad? Just because Apple created the path and suggest that people follow it does not imply they're to blame when people don't follow that path or get lost along the way. Unless you can demonstrate that the vast majority of developers can't get it right, then all you've proven is some developers create poor UIs. Again, not Apple's fault. If Apple were to blame, most apps would have poor UI issues.

    Just so we're on the same page, I'm not so much talking about button appearance or white space or stuff like that. I'm referring to confusing menus, "buttons" showing up in places where buttons aren't expected, non-intuitive navigation, etc. If you scroll back through this thread, you'll see what I mean.

    Also, just because Apple suggests a look and feel doesn't mean developers must follow that. I have apps that still retain that old school, skeuomorphic look and feel (for example, on my iPad "DVD Profiler for iOS" can display my DVD collection as if it were sitting on shelves. I can even have wooden shelves, metal shelves, etc.). That app just recently got an iOS 11 update, so if Apple has issues with their UI, they let one slip through. My point is, there are no hard and fast requirements that apps adopt any particular look and feel regardless of what Apple suggests. In fact, if a developer truly wanted to, they can totally make buttons look like buttons again.

    You can make the argument that Apple has chosen a horrible UI. You can make the argument that most apps follow their guidelines and you don't care for where things are headed. But if you say Apple is to blame because MY app is confusing and hard to navigate, I'm going to have to disagree. That would only prove my own failure. If that's defending Apple, so be it.
     
  18. Tozovac, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    Tozovac macrumors 6502a

    Tozovac

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    Jun 12, 2014
    #493
    You can continue to call me out but you're still not correct. You're somewhat correct in that yes, 3rd party developers should be able to create a "good" app, but it's obvious from looking at & using Apple's very own UI and their very own base apps that Apple laid out certain expectations or basic tools that can't help but steer many or most developers (if not sometime completely constrain them to certain minimalist ios7-11 type of UI tools) to follow Apple's "rules."

    Consider the 3rd party app I complained about ("Burner") that I know bummed you out because you thought I was being out of line. How come then did I not see a single ridiculously-minimalistic too-monochromatic & flat 3rd party app until after ios7? Could it possibly be that Apple's over-simplified new UI/programming could allow "non-qualified" programmers to assemble something nearly as professional/similar-looking to Apple's stripped down apps, opening the door for some really horrible crap apps like Burner?

    If anyone's used the Tapatalk app, they might also recognize how before ios7 the app was pretty wonderful to use for accessing forums while after ios7 the UI went downhill largely due to a new type of menu-driven interface that was unintuitive, unnecessarily complex, and too monochromatic to be fun to use anymore. Many I know removed it from their device.

    Why else would so many (not all but virtually all) 3rd party apps after ios6 have reverted to a monochromatic (but with lots of white) space-wasting large-flat-circles interface? Take the Simpliafe app before ios7 which utilized borders, colors, and screen space very effectively:

    SimpliSafe-Home-Security-App.jpg

    Compared to the app after ios7 where basic info is given on many different screens, and there are no multi-color borders to help provide context:

    392x696bb.jpg unnamed.png

    Give me a break. Sure Simplisafe chose to the minimalist space-wasting route but it's very inline with the iOS7-11 expectations and UI rules that Apple laid out.

    Or the LIFX app for wifi-controlled ceiling lights - rather than provide the user with an app that allows them to organize lights contextually and/or fit a dozen lights on one screen, they follow Apple's new "circular large button" interface guidelines or requirements or expectations, requiring frequent scrolling/swiping just to get to all your lights, even on an iPad for God's sake. :) They could have fit so much more on 1 screen if not for the blind adherence to Apple's "circular" theme that's so unnecessarily pervasive in so many 3rd party apps.

    lifx-screen-100687350-orig.jpg

    I could go on but it's obvious you're incapable of "seeing it," while others instantly see it.

    Whoah sorry, no. Your comparison would be more apt if Betty Crocker changed her initial "natural" direction and suddenly redid her cookbooks in difficult-to-read-easily light grey thin font and limited cooks to using mostly circular white eggs and light grey meat. It's the entire flat/monochromatic/big-circular-buttons/space-wasting/hidden-sub-menus theme of Apple's UI that ruined the iOS experience in their base apps and 3rd party apps. How is that so hard to see?

    Betty Crocker was more like iOS6. Few unnecessary constraints and mostly organic controls that were "natural as they should be" and the result of what was "obviously the easiest and most convenient." iOS11 continues to be full of unnecessary constraints and arbitrarily-chosen minimalist/flat/monochromatic elements that are very hard to defend as being anything other than a purposeful choice to be different from what was before. Different than the initial, first, "obvious" direction before iOS7 because Jony didn't approve of what that design team with Scott created.

    Again wrong - you're acting like Apple laid out a good path to follow while many of us find major fault with their own apps/UI. We'll just have to choose to disagree here.

    And many do. Just that your tolerance level is different than mine and many others.

    Would you mind finding or sharing some screen shots? I never heard of this, and just want to make sure I'm looking at the same UI you describe. I honestly have yet to find a truly good well-UI'd 3rd party app since ios7, while most all were pretty fine at iOS6 & prior.

    Apple is to blame for much of hamstringing developers with dumb guidance like:

    https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/controls/buttons/

    Consider adding a border or a background only when necessary. By default, a system button has no border or background. In some content areas, however, a border or background is necessary to denote interactivity. In the Phone app, bordered number keys reinforce the traditional model of making a call, and the background of the Call button provides an eye-catching target that’s easy to hit.

    "Consider using a border only when necessary"
    "By default a system button has no border or background"

    That's just masochism and completely unnecessary constraining.

    Or take the Edit Menus:

    https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/controls/edit-menus/

    Screen Shot 2017-10-03 at 5.53.42 PM.png

    Way, way too often, those black edit menus appear on a screen I'm using that is black already. The minimalist removal of borders often slows things down to figure out what's pressible or not. Again, this is coming directly from Apple's UI toolkit full of unnecessary minimalism. What's so awful about using borders? Did you remove frames from all the pictures on your home's walls and just post up the picture? If frames/borders are frequently deemed necessary in real life, why is it so anti-christ to see them in software? Answer that and you'll have my ear finally...

    Well enough. Unsure any of this will be of interest or hold any water to you like it does for many others. Apple created an unnecessarily minimalist & different UI than "before," and not all of it is better, yet that's good enough for today's Apple.
     
  19. MEJHarrison, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017

    MEJHarrison macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    #494
    We already hashed this out earlier in this thread. I see no point in revisiting things. It's still there multiple pages back.

    Also, I wasn't trying to call you out. Just expressing where I stand and why. Yes, I used your earlier posts as an example, but not to drag things back up again.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    I missed this part of your post. So, two things.

    One, I do mind sharing screenshots. I'm at work and shouldn't really be talking on here, let alone messing with screenshots. That's precisely why I included the complete name of the app I was referring to. The App Store has screenshots. So, once again, the app is: DVD Profiler for iOS. Make sure to check out the iPhone and iPad screenshots as they're slightly different.

    Second, I'm in no way trying to pass this off as a "good UI". It certainly has its flaws. In fact, I tend to think parts of it are rather ugly. I only use it to illustrate that app developers need not follow Apple's guidelines. No one is forced to destroy a perfectly good app all in the name of "looking like Apple". If developers choose to follow Apple's guidelines, that's their choice and any issues that follow from that decision is likewise their responsibility to implement intelligently, intuitively and correctly.
     
  20. Tozovac macrumors 6502a

    Tozovac

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    #495
    MEJ sounds good I'll take a look! Thanks for playing nice here.
     
  21. MEJHarrison macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 2, 2009
    #496
    It's an operating system on a smartphone we could honestly do without. I see no reason not to play nice. First off, in my opinion, neither of us are "right" as this is a very subjective subject. You have your opinions, I have mine. Second, as I mentioned way earlier in this thread, I don't feel ANY version of iOS has come near nirvana. I liked some parts of "what we used to have" and I like some parts of "what we now have" and I don't feel either one totally nails it.
     
  22. jonnysods macrumors 603

    jonnysods

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    Location:
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    #497
    I thought with the X they would do something crazy new with it.

    Very surprised the notifications with the new OLED don't just light up and no other pixel on the screen. I expected more pizzaz.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 3, 2017 ---
    Spotify is a great example of a beautiful dark app.
     
  23. Tozovac, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    Tozovac macrumors 6502a

    Tozovac

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    #498
    Agreed, no "nirvana," but I'd hope you'd be able to agree that much of the prior UI did not need such a complete overhaul to where quite a bit of the "good" was completely discarded in favor of providing "new & different," and where often the "new" was functionally not an improvement than the old (and often is arguably worse). The introduction of the ios7 UI, for which I'd summarize as being "buttonless, visual-cue-reduced, minimalist, low-contrast, borderless, and too-white with as much hidden menus and 'blends into the background' controls as achievable," and for which most of which has been retained thru into iOS11 today, was such a radical departure from everything before begs the question (that nobody has been able to successfully answer):

    Excluding consideration of certain skeumorphic elements that some felt were too over the top, what specific functional elements were hard to use and in need of improvement? Was every element of the UI/function so bad and hard to use in iOS6 (& prior iOS's) that it required something completely new from the top-down?

    In this thread, I've contributed as have many others many critiques for elements in the current UI, but I can't say I've read a single critique of elements in the prior UI excluding comments by those with extreme dislike for anything skeumorophic or 3D-button, etc. I'm obviously not talking about certain additions like control panel and 3D touch which aren't ios7-11 specific and could have easily been executed in any iOS. But that lack of any discernible "UI bust that was fixed" by iOS7-11 is the major beef that many & I have with the iOS11-7 UI that retains a minimalist fashion-first UI that's too often less easy and less fun to use than before for many. Change for the sake of change and for the Company's preferences, and not function/customer-first.

    So much of today's Apple (both software design and hardware too now) feels like a 44-year-old trophy wife with a rich 2nd husband who didn't have the vision & class of her ex-husband. She has way too much money and no fresh new ideas or hobbies, but he & she are so fixated on fashion/looks first that she dabbles with too much unnecessary plastic surgery, trying to regain the stunning freshness she naturally exuded some 15 years ago. But she actually destroys what she has with adding too many new nips & tucks, becoming rather unrecognizable to what she was back before. Unable to recognize she should stop or try to revert closer to a "natural, less-forced state," she just keeps adding more instead.

    Sometimes it's OK to put pencils down, but it takes REAL courage and real vision to recognize that, something Apple's not seemed to have since 2011.

    Looking at screenshots at the app store, it doesn't look too bad, you're right. I personally would like to see more use of borders to define things. Maybe they're there but are just too hard to see in the small screenshots, which would reflect another one of today's Apple's questionable UI decisions of using borders so discernibly small and thin and low-contrast that they ultimately don't provide any real functional aid. Sure, they're there and "check the box" of providing a context-defining functional element but they're so minimalist thin and low-contrast (and indiscernible at times), why even bother putting them in?
     
  24. Smartass macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 18, 2012
    #499
    I really hate the new messages layout at the bottom. Just look at that crap, you got App store icon, health icon, music icon, airbnb icon... WTF is all that crap?

    Apple has really fallen when it comes to iOS design in the last two years. It's getting uglier and unpractical with every new release.
     
  25. C DM macrumors Westmere

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    #500
    Tap in the gray App Store icon to hide that drawer.
     

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