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Surf Monkey

Suspended
Oct 3, 2010
5,766
4,533
Portland, OR
Shouldn't the export of cutting-edge AI technology to China be banned?

Ideally companies would be able to protect their intellectual property globally but that isn’t a practical reality. China’s copyright and trademark laws don’t resemble ours in the US at all. As others point out, they’ll figure out a way to get the tech and use it regardless of any barriers we put up.
 

Surf Monkey

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Oct 3, 2010
5,766
4,533
Portland, OR
Once iOS 17.4 releases (with new iMessage encryption) - I am going to guess that there will be even more bans of Apple device use in China.

All the comments about "Apple devices are boring" are kind of hilarious to me, considering what the alternatives require (unless you are running something like GrapheneOS on your Android device).

There’s an argument on both sides. iPhone hardware doesn’t excite anymore. Could it? Sure. There are all sorts of different design directions Apple could take with it. The Apple ideal of a seamless piece of glass isn’t necessarily the only ideal.

And as far as iOS goes, it would be fantastic as-is if Apple were able to squash the many annoying bugs and interface quirks, some of which have been with us for over a decade.

On the other hand, the Apple ecosystem is absolutely the reason to buy their products. Tight integration matters. There really isn’t any valid competition on that front.
 

Hails09

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2022
335
362
There’s an argument on both sides. iPhone hardware doesn’t excite anymore. Could it? Sure. There are all sorts of different design directions Apple could take with it. The Apple ideal of a seamless piece of glass isn’t necessarily the only ideal.

And as far as iOS goes, it would be fantastic as-is if Apple were able to squash the many annoying bugs and interface quirks, some of which have been with us for over a decade.

On the other hand, the Apple ecosystem is absolutely the reason to buy their products. Tight integration matters. There really isn’t any valid competition on that front.
It could be that huawei has made better products according to people in china
 

kevcube

macrumors 6502
Nov 16, 2020
404
573
Shouldn't the export of cutting-edge AI technology to China be banned?
Luddites always lose and open source AI is years ahead of what Apple sells today. I don’t think they’ll ship ANYTHING good and their update model of “once a year” is starting to be way to slow for the rest of the industry. They will ship crap at WWDC and giving it to china wont hurt anyone.
 

Surf Monkey

Suspended
Oct 3, 2010
5,766
4,533
Portland, OR
Is huawei not number 1 in china?

Did I say otherwise?

I get it. You’re a fan of Huawei. All I’m suggesting is that there may be more at play here than just “better handset.” As I pointed out, the central Apple strategy is to get people invested in the integrated Apple experience. They want you to have an iPad, an AppleTV, an iMac, some AirPods and an iPhone. All the devices that make up the integrated Apple system. That’s a big ask in a country that doesn’t share the same basic cultural assumptions as the US.
 
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Hails09

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2022
335
362
Apple has a china problem
The fact they have to discount their mobiles show how desperate they are
 

Hails09

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2022
335
362
So what? That doesn’t rebut the point I’m making.
Though Apple offered big promotions for the iPhone 15 series, it still witnessed a 6% YoY drop in shipments due to fierce competition from Huawei’s return.
• Huawei’s shipments almost doubled YoY driven by the hot-selling Mate 60 series as well as the newly launched Nova 12 series.
 

Surf Monkey

Suspended
Oct 3, 2010
5,766
4,533
Portland, OR
Though Apple offered big promotions for the iPhone 15 series, it still witnessed a 6% YoY drop in shipments due to fierce competition from Huawei’s return.
• Huawei’s shipments almost doubled YoY driven by the hot-selling Mate 60 series as well as the newly launched Nova 12 series.

Well, you’re not reading and considering my position. You’re just hyping Huawei. Good luck with that.
 
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mikelets456

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2022
465
345
Bucks County, PA
Though Apple offered big promotions for the iPhone 15 series, it still witnessed a 6% YoY drop in shipments due to fierce competition from Huawei’s return.
• Huawei’s shipments almost doubled YoY driven by the hot-selling Mate 60 series as well as the newly launched Nova 12 series.
In which countries? I'm curious and not attacking you---I found a lot of cherry picked information but it seems in the USA almost 60% of Smartphone owners own an Iphone....same with Canada and a lot of countries in Europe.
However, in China, until 2019 Android held 77% of the market there.
I wonder if that was the reason for Apple's escape from China? Also, the Chinese are no longer using them in their government.
1.4 Billion people----that's a big market share. Possible they are subsidized in China? Cheap burner phones due to stringent government Communist policies?
 
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j26

macrumors 68000
Mar 30, 2005
1,725
613
Paddyland
The iPhone is extremely expensive and still considered a luxury to a lot of people. Times are tough and people just don’t have the money right now. Just a guess, of course.
The article itself says that the Chinese market is pivoting towards high end devices, it's not likely to be that.

I suspect Apple may have lost the "cool" factor in a market where foldables are growing at 100%+ a year. Plus, with WeChat seeming to be the main communication tool, iMessage has no sway (like in Europe). Plus, Huawei makes great phones - my favourite phone ever was a Huawei P30 Pro. It's a shame they're pretty much out of the market here in Europe.
 

Hails09

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2022
335
362
In which countries? I'm curious and not attacking you---I found a lot of cherry picked information but it seems in the USA almost 60% of Smartphone owners own an Iphone....same with Canada and a lot of countries in Europe.
However, in China, until 2019 Android held 77% of the market there.
I wonder if that was the reason for Apple's escape from China? Also, the Chinese are no longer using them in their government.
1.4 Billion people----that's a big market share. Possible they are subsidized in China? Cheap burner phones due to stringent government Communist policies?
It’s probably to do with they prefer to buy mobiles from companies in their region
 
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rizzo41999

macrumors 6502
May 27, 2009
482
1,464
MA
Lost cause. Their workforce is retiring and most retirees over there put their cash in real estate. It's vapor now, there's no funds.
 

ApplesAreSweet&Sour

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2018
1,919
3,487
The article itself says that the Chinese market is pivoting towards high end devices, it's not likely to be that.

I suspect Apple may have lost the "cool" factor in a market where foldables are growing at 100%+ a year. Plus, with WeChat seeming to be the main communication tool, iMessage has no sway (like in Europe). Plus, Huawei makes great phones - my favourite phone ever was a Huawei P30 Pro. It's a shame they're pretty much out of the market here in Europe.
I think Huawei is banned in the EU and completely out of the market here.

We all know why.
 

zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,496
6,771
There's also the fact that patriotism is pushing people to support domestic brands. The aggression from the West against China is making people more frustrated with America and by extension American businesses.

Shouldn't the export of cutting-edge AI technology to China be banned?

It's stunning that this is still a mainstream position in American politics because American sanctions against superpowers and rivals is the easiest way to accelerate the decline of America. It is such an obvious "shoot yourself in the foot" strategy that the only explanation I can come up with is that we are intentionally trying to weaken ourselves. It's infuriating. Why are we willingly giving up our advantages?

See Russia and Iran over the past decade for example. Sanction Iran and limit access to American technology? Iran doubles down and starts developing domestic equivalents that in some cases actually beat American tech. They have hypersonic missiles, we don't. They're building robotic surgery machines that operate over 5G. They've just introduced a new tank that is on par with American and Russian tanks.

The recent sanctions against Russia turned out to be one of the biggest policy failures in modern American history. It boosted their economy in many ways, importantly they are investing heavily into domestic manufacturing and are doing more business with China (instead of EU and America) than ever before. They have so many manufacturing jobs now that they're trying to boost immigration numbers to fill in those jobs. Again, the end result is more countries slashing reliance on American products and instead going with China.

Finally, the chip sanction against China was basically the death knell for American tech superiority. Just a mind numbing decision by our politicians. The one thing we had going for us is the monopoly over the best chips. We block access to UVL tech and so China are forced to make a massive push for developing their own methods for manufacturing 3nm+ chips. If China can do it on their own there is basically no technological justification for the One China Policy regarding Taiwan and indeed China have continued to insist their policy on Taiwan is not about TSMC, it's about the political principle of One China. One of the major points behind American 'defending' Taiwan was to make sure TSMC is under our control, the other is to weaken China via proxy war (like we tried doing to Russia with Ukraine) or all out war (disaster, literally impossible to win and even NATO/US officers admit this via war game simulations).

If we were diplomatic and worked with Russia and China to keep them using our latest and greatest AI tech, they will end up relying on our technology for longer. Instead, we're forcing them to build alternatives and before long they'll outpace us like they (well, China) did with manufacturing and EV tech.
 
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