Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
This!!! Many people seem to miss the secondary market and how, for years, it helped justify people getting a $650 phone every two years. The upper end of the market will suffer, no doubt

Apple know that btw, the SE is the biggest deviation in pricing they have ever had; you pay $50 less than the 5s you would have bought earlier this year, you get a device with specs from two years later

Exactly. Two things. If I can't resell my one or two year old iPhone for a decent price, I'm going to worry a bit more about buying a new one. Also the secondary market allowed Apple and the carriers to offer significant trade in value. These trade ins probably outnumber those of us who personally find a buyer of our used phones. But it is crucial part of the whole process of getting consumers to buy new phones. And second the SE price was a clear indication to me that in 2016 Apple realized it needed to put some cheaper phones out there. The SE has the same CPU as the 6S and yet costs $250 less! That says to me that Apple is setting up some room for the 7 to be a bit cheaper than the 6S.

Prices this fall can be:
SE: $399 (as it is priced now)
6S: $499 (+$100 for plus maybe something where the plus starts at 64gb)
7: $599 (+$100 for plus which comes with dual camera) (+100 gets you 128gb storage)

The 6 gets discontinued. There is no point to having three models (each with a plus version) with nearly exactly the same form factor, plus if you keep the 6 around you have to explain how its CPU is worse than the SE and Apple sets itself up for problems down the road having to support the A8 processor for another year (like into 2020 if it plans on selling new 6 phones in 2017).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tiger8
I was just responding to the claim that people didn't switch from iOS. The shrinking market share shows that they do.

That said, at some point a deteriorating market share will have an effect on the ecosystem. For example, just recently Android was, for the first time, named as the primary target platform by a majority of professional app developers:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/android-primary-platform-for-most-pro-developers-study-shows
I really hope they find a way to not let it slide much further.

I don't believe a deteriorating market share will affect Apple. Apple commands the majority of buyers that spend a lot of money. Look at the Mac line. Apple has never lead the PC market share for decades and yet they're doing very well. HP and Dell race for the bottom line, which hurt them.

The same is happening to Android. We'll see how long Samsung can continue selling a commodity at high prices. All of those $400 Android phones doesn't hurt Apple, it hurts Samsung. If you want a Mac, you buy a Mac. If you want an iPhone you buy an iPhone. A $400 laptop or $400 Android phone isn't going to change that.

Lol, are you suggesting that the 6s is a higher end piece of kit than the note 7 lol, that's the funniest thing I've read all week. 720p screen in 2016. Brilliant.

Have a nice day sir.

The Note 7 is slower and its screen scratch resistance is one step above plastic. The home button is plastic.
 
I don't believe a deteriorating market share will affect Apple. Apple commands the majority of buyers that spend a lot of money. Look at the Mac line. Apple has never lead the PC market share for decades and yet they're doing very well. HP and Dell race for the bottom line, which hurt them.

The same is happening to Android. We'll see how long Samsung can continue selling a commodity at high prices. All of those $400 Android phones doesn't hurt Apple, it hurts Samsung. If you want a Mac, you buy a Mac. If you want an iPhone you buy an iPhone. A $400 laptop or $400 Android phone isn't going to change that.



The Note 7 is slower and its screen scratch resistance is one step above plastic. The home button is plastic.
Slower? You won't find any difference in speed from note 7 to 6s or iPhone 7 I imagine

As for scratch resistance? Any screen can scratch if you stick a pen on it to try and scratch the screen

Btw the same screen Gorilla glass 5 is heading to the iPhone 7 too...so if it was there would be no difference
 
If you ask me, Google's strength is also its biggest weakness. They have excellent services no doubt, but very limited control over their own platform, precisely because Google has close to zero hardware presence and are reliant on 3rd petty vendors. Android's huge market share is impressive no doubt, but Google seems to have very little to show for this victory.
Both the integrated and the multi-vendor approaches have their pros and cons. But I was just responding to your claim that nobody but Apple had the resources and capability to develop and maintain a rich service ecosystem. That's obviously not true. And Google has very strong incentives for driving the Android ecosystem, since the mobile market is crucial for their business.
 
Last edited:
Slower? You won't find any difference in speed from note 7 to 6s or iPhone 7 I imagine

As for scratch resistance? Any screen can scratch if you stick a pen on it to try and scratch the screen

Btw the same screen Gorilla glass 5 is heading to the iPhone 7 too...so if it was there would be no difference

Watch YouTube videos on speed tests between the two. The Note 7 loses to the 6S by a fair margin. That's the problem on Android's side, there's nothing better than an 820 that's available to them.

We don't know what the iPhone 7 glass will be. Hopefully not GG5.



You actually believe that? Science says otherwise.
 
Watch YouTube videos on speed tests between the two. The Note 7 loses to the 6S by a fair margin. That's the problem on Android's side, there's nothing better than an 820 that's available to them.

We don't know what the iPhone 7 glass will be. Hopefully not GG5.




You actually believe that? Science says otherwise.
I've seen them but reality it that isn't world usage. Anybody can make one phone look faster than the other

Speed wise there is hardly any difference between my S7 edge or iPhone 6s Plus
 
Watch YouTube videos on speed tests between the two. The Note 7 loses to the 6S by a fair margin. That's the problem on Android's side, there's nothing better than an 820 that's available to them.

We don't know what the iPhone 7 glass will be. Hopefully not GG5.




You actually believe that? Science says otherwise.

You actually believe a random test on YouTube not conducted under consistent conditions?
 
I have the iPhone 6s Plus, I just bought the Nexus 6P to try Android. The phone was inexpensive as it was less that half what I paid for my iPhone. Slightly larger screen at 5.7, and crazy clear/sharp. The operating system was very surprising, I downloaded Android 7.0 and IOS 10. I was surprised how much more I preferred Android. Downloaded all the same Apps, I have to say I am sold! I just placed my order for a Note 7. I'm sold on Android and decided to get a phone far more advanced than iPhone. I'm shocked Android is so much nicer and the broad range of high end phones. I thought Apple was king. I strangely feel bad as I am a real Apple fan, have been for 18 years.

Don't be, Apple simply isn't performing the way they should be. I to was completely dissatisfied with the latest version of iOS 10, it simply added nothing to improve my iPad Pro experience. The fact of the matter is Android is now the better OS. I mean right now I am streaming a video to my TV wirelessly, while converting a media file to .mp4, while downloading a 10GB file from my cloud drive and uploading it to my NAS at the same time, all in the background, while I'm typing this post. There is no way I could do anything remotely like that with iOS.

When I'm at work I can directly mount my remote server user directly as a local folder on my phone, in which every app installed can access directly. I'm even using my phone as a desktop computer at work, connecting a monitor, mouse, keyboard, 2TB HD, Wacom Intuos Drawing board with stylus (yep works flawlessly) and a HP AIO LP. Than using a Citrix client I can display my Windows applications, I program using ClodeEnvy cloud IDE, I have multiple remote terminals opened and running in the background. I have Perl, PHP, Python, MySQL, etc. installed locally, which is just amazing as it allows me to create reports, also automatically on a timer and in the background. Basically my phone is my computer.

Again, I couldn't do even a 5th of these things with an iPhone or even my iPad Pro for that matter. Which to be honest I now only use for music creation, the rest of the time I use either my Pixel C or Asus Flip ChromeBook. The ChromeBook by the way is going to be the next big thing, I mean I absolutely love my little Asus, especially now that I can run Android apps on it as a well Linux in a Chroot. It is perhaps the coolest gadget I have ever owned and will definitely be buying the new Google "Kevin' ChromeBook hybrid when it's release. You might snicker at that but I got to tell you guys, these things are incredible now and absolutely blow away the iPad when it comes to actual productivity.
 
Will Google/ Alphabet get about $1.00 an android licence or is it as much as $5.00?
[doublepost=1471814611][/doublepost]
Don't be, Apple simply isn't performing the way they should be. I to was completely dissatisfied with the latest version of iOS 10, it simply added nothing to improve my iPad Pro experience. The fact of the matter is Android is now the better OS. I mean right now I am streaming a video to my TV wirelessly, while converting a media file to .mp4, while downloading a 10GB file from my cloud drive and uploading it to my NAS at the same time, all in the background, while I'm typing this post. There is no way I could do anything remotely like that with iOS.

When I'm at work I can directly mount my remote server user directly as a local folder on my phone, in which every app installed can access directly. I'm even using my phone as a desktop computer at work, connecting a monitor, mouse, keyboard, 2TB HD, Wacom Intuos Drawing board with stylus (yep works flawlessly) and a HP AIO LP. Than using a Citrix client I can display my Windows applications, I program using ClodeEnvy cloud IDE, I have multiple remote terminals opened and running in the background. I have Perl, PHP, Python, MySQL, etc. installed locally, which is just amazing as it allows me to create reports, also automatically on a timer and in the background. Basically my phone is my computer.

Again, I couldn't do even a 5th of these things with an iPhone or even my iPad Pro for that matter. Which to be honest I now only use for music creation, the rest of the time I use either my Pixel C or Asus Flip ChromeBook. The ChromeBook by the way is going to be the next big thing, I mean I absolutely love my little Asus, especially now that I can run Android apps on it as a well Linux in a Chroot. It is perhaps the coolest gadget I have ever owned and will definitely be buying the new Google "Kevin' ChromeBook hybrid when it's release. You might snicker at that but I got to tell you guys, these things are incredible now and absolutely blow away the iPad when it comes to actual productivity.

Can I ask which android phone you use and which device you were referring to in your first paragraph
thanks
 
Don't be, Apple simply isn't performing the way they should be. I to was completely dissatisfied with the latest version of iOS 10, it simply added nothing to improve my iPad Pro experience. The fact of the matter is Android is now the better OS. I mean right now I am streaming a video to my TV wirelessly, while converting a media file to .mp4, while downloading a 10GB file from my cloud drive and uploading it to my NAS at the same time, all in the background, while I'm typing this post. There is no way I could do anything remotely like that with iOS.

When I'm at work I can directly mount my remote server user directly as a local folder on my phone, in which every app installed can access directly. I'm even using my phone as a desktop computer at work, connecting a monitor, mouse, keyboard, 2TB HD, Wacom Intuos Drawing board with stylus (yep works flawlessly) and a HP AIO LP. Than using a Citrix client I can display my Windows applications, I program using ClodeEnvy cloud IDE, I have multiple remote terminals opened and running in the background. I have Perl, PHP, Python, MySQL, etc. installed locally, which is just amazing as it allows me to create reports, also automatically on a timer and in the background. Basically my phone is my computer.

Again, I couldn't do even a 5th of these things with an iPhone or even my iPad Pro for that matter. Which to be honest I now only use for music creation, the rest of the time I use either my Pixel C or Asus Flip ChromeBook. The ChromeBook by the way is going to be the next big thing, I mean I absolutely love my little Asus, especially now that I can run Android apps on it as a well Linux in a Chroot. It is perhaps the coolest gadget I have ever owned and will definitely be buying the new Google "Kevin' ChromeBook hybrid when it's release. You might snicker at that but I got to tell you guys, these things are incredible now and absolutely blow away the iPad when it comes to actual productivity.
I guess what you mean to say is that Android is the more suitable OS for you, because of your needs, which to be honest, clearly do not reflect what the majority of users do on their phones anyways.

Are people really wetting their panties over the ability to use their smartphone as a portable desktop CPU? How many people are constantly uploading and downloading files to and from their phones, much less of that size? Personally, I just stream the show directly to my Apple TV via Airvideo, but that's just me.

What is considered productivity will differ from user to user. As a teacher, I clearly do not need to do any of those things you listed, and so I am not any worse off by my iPhone or ipad not being able to do any of those tasks. Conversely, I appreciate being able to mirror my ipad to my Apple TV, the silky smooth writing experience afforded by the Apple Pencil, and the simplicity of iOS allowing me to focus on getting my job done without having to grapple with unnecessary complexities or problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: melendezest
Exactly. Two things. If I can't resell my one or two year old iPhone for a decent price, I'm going to worry a bit more about buying a new one. Also the secondary market allowed Apple and the carriers to offer significant trade in value. These trade ins probably outnumber those of us who personally find a buyer of our used phones. But it is crucial part of the whole process of getting consumers to buy new phones. And second the SE price was a clear indication to me that in 2016 Apple realized it needed to put some cheaper phones out there. The SE has the same CPU as the 6S and yet costs $250 less! That says to me that Apple is setting up some room for the 7 to be a bit cheaper than the 6S.

Prices this fall can be:
SE: $399 (as it is priced now)
6S: $499 (+$100 for plus maybe something where the plus starts at 64gb)
7: $599 (+$100 for plus which comes with dual camera) (+100 gets you 128gb storage)

The 6 gets discontinued. There is no point to having three models (each with a plus version) with nearly exactly the same form factor, plus if you keep the 6 around you have to explain how its CPU is worse than the SE and Apple sets itself up for problems down the road having to support the A8 processor for another year (like into 2020 if it plans on selling new 6 phones in 2017).
yup, your prices make sense; SE will hold on to its price, 6s gets a $150 discount (rather than the typical $100 discount) and 7 gets advertised as the best phone ever as usual, maybe even with a 32 entry model so folks would feel they git more for their money
 
Another interesting titbit -

http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2016/7/25/platform-wars-final-score

This writer posits that the actual market share of Android to iOS is actually closer to 2:1, rather than the overwhelming 7:1 ratio mentioned in the article.

The problem comes because the study only counts total devices sold so far, without taking into account that not every phone sold this way is in active use. If you read the article I have linked, he estimates that there are about 630k iPhones still used actively around the world, compared to 1.3 billion Android phones.

Add in regional discrepancies (advertisers would still be more interested in targeting the west due to income disparities) and the difference in app revenues make more sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deany
I guess what you mean to say is that Android is the more suitable OS for you, because of your needs, which to be honest, clearly do not reflect what the majority of users do on their phones anyways.

Are people really wetting their panties over the ability to use their smartphone as a portable desktop CPU? How many people are constantly uploading and downloading files to and from their phones, much less of that size? Personally, I just stream the show directly to my Apple TV via Airvideo, but that's just me.

What is considered productivity will differ from user to user. As a teacher, I clearly do not need to do any of those things you listed, and so I am not any worse off by my iPhone or ipad not being able to do any of those tasks. Conversely, I appreciate being able to mirror my ipad to my Apple TV, the silky smooth writing experience afforded by the Apple Pencil, and the simplicity of iOS allowing me to focus on getting my job done without having to grapple with unnecessary complexities or problems.
I was to in a secure environment and phones aren't even allowed inside the firewall. But when i travel personal hotspot and an sp4 make getting work done ridiculously easy. I dont have to grapple with any mounting or dismounting or what have you. It just works, works good and works fast.

I have a Windows device to do what I need, my iPhone is for the rest of the stuff, which often involves a lot of iMessages, FaceTime, iCloud photo sharing and keeping up with work stuff. I like being able to answer calls and iMessage on my iPad.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
I replied to the Gorilla Glass part of your post, I haven't read about speed difference.

http://www.xda-developers.com/with-...delivers-embarrassing-real-world-performance/

As for GG5's scratch resistance, I don't believe Cornings claim because 1. It doesn't make sense. 2. They're not providing proof by doing a scratch test.
[doublepost=1471875098][/doublepost]
Don't be, Apple simply isn't performing the way they should be. I to was completely dissatisfied with the latest version of iOS 10, it simply added nothing to improve my iPad Pro experience. The fact of the matter is Android is now the better OS. I mean right now I am streaming a video to my TV wirelessly, while converting a media file to .mp4, while downloading a 10GB file from my cloud drive and uploading it to my NAS at the same time, all in the background, while I'm typing this post. There is no way I could do anything remotely like that with iOS.

When I'm at work I can directly mount my remote server user directly as a local folder on my phone, in which every app installed can access directly. I'm even using my phone as a desktop computer at work, connecting a monitor, mouse, keyboard, 2TB HD, Wacom Intuos Drawing board with stylus (yep works flawlessly) and a HP AIO LP. Than using a Citrix client I can display my Windows applications, I program using ClodeEnvy cloud IDE, I have multiple remote terminals opened and running in the background. I have Perl, PHP, Python, MySQL, etc. installed locally, which is just amazing as it allows me to create reports, also automatically on a timer and in the background. Basically my phone is my computer.

Again, I couldn't do even a 5th of these things with an iPhone or even my iPad Pro for that matter. Which to be honest I now only use for music creation, the rest of the time I use either my Pixel C or Asus Flip ChromeBook. The ChromeBook by the way is going to be the next big thing, I mean I absolutely love my little Asus, especially now that I can run Android apps on it as a well Linux in a Chroot. It is perhaps the coolest gadget I have ever owned and will definitely be buying the new Google "Kevin' ChromeBook hybrid when it's release. You might snicker at that but I got to tell you guys, these things are incredible now and absolutely blow away the iPad when it comes to actual productivity.

If the UX of using your phone as your computer is so awesome, where's the market?
 
Last edited:
I guess what you mean to say is that Android is the more suitable OS for you, because of your needs, which to be honest, clearly do not reflect what the majority of users do on their phones anyways.

Are people really wetting their panties over the ability to use their smartphone as a portable desktop CPU? How many people are constantly uploading and downloading files to and from their phones, much less of that size? Personally, I just stream the show directly to my Apple TV via Airvideo, but that's just me.

What is considered productivity will differ from user to user. As a teacher, I clearly do not need to do any of those things you listed, and so I am not any worse off by my iPhone or ipad not being able to do any of those tasks. Conversely, I appreciate being able to mirror my ipad to my Apple TV, the silky smooth writing experience afforded by the Apple Pencil, and the simplicity of iOS allowing me to focus on getting my job done without having to grapple with unnecessary complexities or problems.

I have to agree with this. If iOS fits your workflow, there really is nothing more to be said.

However, iOS is far too limited for me.

The issue is that the Android ecosystem offers more choice, and more control when you want it, and simplicity when you don't.

It is the equivalent of the MacOS on a portable device. And Apple is just stuck in their own limited mindset and refuse to open things up for those who want to.

This has worked for them in the past, but the competition has caught up and Apple consumers like me are starting to notice that they can do a LOT more they want to on an Android device. Things that they simply can't on iPhone.

And thus this brings the issue of value. Apple is just not a good value these days, certainly not like it used to be.
 
I have to agree with this. If iOS fits your workflow, there really is nothing more to be said.

However, iOS is far too limited for me.

The issue is that the Android ecosystem offers more choice, and more control when you want it, and simplicity when you don't.

It is the equivalent of the MacOS on a portable device. And Apple is just stuck in their own limited mindset and refuse to open things up for those who want to.

This has worked for them in the past, but the competition has caught up and Apple consumers like me are starting to notice that they can do a LOT more they want to on an Android device. Things that they simply can't on iPhone.

And thus this brings the issue of value. Apple is just not a good value these days, certainly not like it used to be.
apple isn't a good value for whom? It's a good value for me, my family the 50 people in my extended family.

If android works for you great, i have no incentive to move to android as I'm more interested in form and function than the spec sheet. I suspect there's more like me who buys iPhones. One day I may get bored and try something else. I do get a new car every few years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deany and MrX8503
Crazy how quickly Windows phone has just died completely. Microsoft really has seemed to have given up.

It is really strange, because Microsoft is developing and supporting Windows 10 mobile just as if it was a mainstream OS. Yet, Microsoft isn't pushing the hardware sales at all.

Windows 10 mobile is an amazing OS, way way better than Android. Very pleasant, very user-oriented and a real surprise. I have no clue what Microsoft is thinking, but I'm afraid it's going to be dumb.

I think they're going to develop and support W10M and hope that third party handset makers will push hardware, because "Microsoft doesn't do hardware".

Personally, I think that's fantastically dumb, but I guess it sorta makes sense. Lumia phones are grade A hardware, excellent build quality and sold handsets. Relying on Acer (ewww) to make handsets is objectively a bad idea.
 
apple isn't a good value for whom? It's a good value for me, my family the 50 people in my extended family.

If android works for you great, i have no incentive to move to android as I'm more interested in form and function than the spec sheet. I suspect there's more like me who buys iPhones. One day I may get bored and try something else. I do get a new car every few years.

I concede that when I speak of value it is a (somewhat) subjective thing.

But this has nothing to do with a spec sheet. I'm talking about functionality and ease of use.

Apple devices are limited in some way, whether that be hardware or software. For example, I could not go from using a Note5 or a Note7 daily to an iPhone. I would miss the customization, the widgets, the filesystem access, the stylus, the back button, the App switcher, the standard charge port, and the expandable storage (in the case of the Note7). I damn sure would miss the headphone jack. ;) As long as I use Google services, I have all the integration I could possibly need, despite Apple-to-Apple device integration being more polished.

Competing products offer almost all the things that Apple offers and more. Thus, they are a better value, in my opinion of course. I really didn't know (and actually refused to believe this) until I actually decided to switch and see.

However, if the Apple-to-Apple integration is what you (and your extended family) values more, then Apple is for you.

Nothing wrong with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
Aka piracy.
For one given game posted by a dev on Touch Arcade, piracy on Android was 90%. For iOS, it was 50%. Still less than Android, but don't kid yourself into thinking that iOS users are "saints".

Unless you buy a Nexus phone don't count on your Android phone getting timely OS updates and security fixes like you do from Apple. While Android might have an overall 86.2% marketshare that doesn't mean that its all the same latest version of Android. In fact, only 15% of Android phones have been updated to the latest Android version Marshmallow released last Oct 2015. Here's a webpage to show you how bad update support really is:
https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

While I'd like to see more hardware bells and whistles from Apple the fact that there's so little software after purchase support has made me decide to leave Android and move to Apple iOS. This would be the first Apple phone for my personal use.
Much like how iOS users choose to go with walled garden, Android users have gotten by with much less updates. And you shouldn't count anybody with a low end Android device. You can bet they especially won't care about OS updates, just like how any body who's still using an Iph4s or older these days shouldn't be shocked that their phones won't be getting to ios10.

Also, I never understood the sprint to get updates. Windows Service Packs... perhaps. Ditto its equivalent for OSX. But upgrading to a new major version of an OS is something that's generally planned out ahead of time to make sure there won't be any compatibility issues on iOS, Android, Win, or OSX.
 
It's not designed for touch. It's not a real Android App.

And nobody starts with BASIC anymore, it's a dead language.
[doublepost=1471565457][/doublepost]

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/piracy-android-how-bad-is-it-really/

Happy now?

From ustwo games...
Interesting fact: Only 5% of Monument Valley installs on Android are paid for. 40% on iOS. There’s a sneak peak of data!

8:15 AM - 5 Jan 2015

95% piracy on Android. 60% piracy on iOS. Never mind Android vs. iOS, this is disappointing to hear either way :(
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.