iOS Apps with Dropbox Integration Running Afoul of Apple's App Store Rules

[ristlin]

I think you just won the "most ignorant post in the world" award! Congrats!

iCloud is actually superior to Dropbox in that it integrates more than just files. Obviously, in it's present state it lacks some of the "user freedom" features like direct access (a big one of course), but I expect that to change with Mountain Lion.

So in reality, you have just won that award.

 

[strausd]

No, I don't think of iCloud that way, nor should anyone who understands a fraction of what it can do right now, because thats not at all an accurate description... nor does it apply to what it will be 6 months from now, a year from now, etc..

I can tell you exactly what Dropbox will be 6 months from now...the same.
A year from now...the same.
2 years from now....probably gone.

I understand it just fine. Maybe you are the one who doesn't understand Dropbox or even cloud storage for that matter. Just look at all the -1's you get. It is obvious that nobody agrees with you.

 

[mmcc]

Sorry, but this policy is insanely confusing.

Let me pose this: As a small developer I have a tab button in my iPad app that directs to a landing page at my website. What if I decided I wanted to offer a cross-promotion and issue a discount code for iPad customers that is good for direct purchase for my products on the Mac or PC?

Would this fall under Apple's "we didn't get 30%" rule? But it is ok if I put an image in my app that looks like an ad banner that links to the same page?

As a developer I find the whole App Store ecosystem as it currently works very constrained and tilted wholly to Apple's favor. For example, they highlight free apps all over the store (sometimes even on my own app's page) that direct customers away from my product. I cannot direct link to a buy process from a website for customers I already work to capture. I cannot offer discount codes or promotions that include an App Store license. I cannot cross-sell unless it is referred through the App Store. I cannot support customers directly for issues of restoring old versions (if they didn't like an upgrade or still have an older OS), checking licenses, or even know if they actually bought my app because I get no customer info -- not even a name.

I cannot... stand the App Stores.

But I do certainly get the blame from customers when something goes wrong.

 

[KnightWRX]

iCloud is actually superior to Dropbox in that it integrates more than just files. Obviously, in it's present state it lacks some of the "user freedom" features like direct access (a big one of course), but I expect that to change with Mountain Lion.

So in reality, you have just won that award.

Can you tell me how I can use iCloud to share files between my Linux and OS X machines ? How can I use iCloud to stash my .mkv files that I ripped from my DVDs To watch on my Android smartphone ? How I can use iCloud to share a file with some of my friends ?

You can't ? Well, that's because iCloud is not a replacement for Dropbox at all, hence it can't be "superior", since they both serve different purposes.

iDisk was Apple's "dropbox". They scrapped that.

 

[foodog]

I think the are slipting hairs because it competes against iCloud and Apple knows iCloud sucks compared to all the other offerings. Of the 4 big choices (Skydrive, Google Drive, Dropbox and iCloud) it is by far the worse.

This is just Apple doing it standard game that since it can not compete on a level playing field they cheat.

Apple isn't trying to compete with Dropbox, they removed iDisk which was in direct competition. They aren't trying to kill off Dropbox either....they want their 30% cut of the upsell subscription to Drobbox (paid version). That is what every developer agreed to when they published their app. If you don't agree with that fine, but that was the agreement.

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Can you tell me how I can use iCloud to share files between my Linux and OS X machines ? How can I use iCloud to stash my .mkv files that I ripped from my DVDs To watch on my Android smartphone ? How I can use iCloud to share a file with some of my friends ?

You can't ? Well, that's because iCloud is not a replacement for Dropbox at all, hence it can't be "superior", since they both serve different purposes.

iDisk was Apple's "dropbox". They scrapped that.

iDisk wasn't that great a service when it was part of MobileMe..... I always used Dropbox because it was much better and cross platform

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I cannot... stand the App Stores.

As a small developer how do you propose to reach millions of people with just your website? The App store brings users with money to you. If you make a killer app you make killer money and Apple takes their cut for bringing the customers to your store front. You don't have to use the App store there are people who jailbreak the iPhone and install unauthorized Apps....

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No, I don't think of iCloud that way, nor should anyone who understands a fraction of what it can do right now, because thats not at all an accurate description... nor does it apply to what it will be 6 months from now, a year from now, etc..

I can tell you exactly what Dropbox will be 6 months from now...the same.
A year from now...the same.
2 years from now....probably gone.

Gone in 2 years? I HIGHLY doubt that!

 

[mmcc]

As a small developer how do you propose to reach millions of people with just your website? The App store brings users with money to you. If you make a killer app you make killer money and Apple takes their cut for bringing the customers to your store front.

Bah, I was doing just fine before the App Store. In fact, the App Store reduced my profits. Yes, it did and still is.

I have a Mac app in the Top 10 Grossing of my category. Guess how many copies it sold yesterday? Four. Big whoop. I have another ranked #6 Top Grossing in my category. It sold one.

Millions of people looking for the latest freebie is more like it. I don't see the money. For every Angry Birds developer there are literally thousands selling peanuts, and Apple wants more of my peanuts?

You don't have to use the App store there are people who jailbreak the iPhone and install unauthorized Apps....

And severely limit my potential customer base? Sorry, not a viable option.

I could give you all kinds of practical ways to help developers in the App Store. Apple isn't interested because it doesn't build more fencing.

 

[Tomacorno]

Godwin's law

What a bunch of little Hitlers.

That was fast! (From first page of thread.)

 

[ristlin]

Can you tell me how I can use iCloud to share files between my Linux and OS X machines ? How can I use iCloud to stash my .mkv files that I ripped from my DVDs To watch on my Android smartphone ? How I can use iCloud to share a file with some of my friends ?

You can't ? Well, that's because iCloud is not a replacement for Dropbox at all, hence it can't be "superior", since they both serve different purposes.

iDisk was Apple's "dropbox". They scrapped that.

I use both and Dropbox is a poor man's solution. They scraped iDisk because they realized the same thing.

 

[madmaxmedia]

And this is good for users how?

They are working together to develop a solution.

Arguments about which is better, DropBox or iCloud, are a moot point. DropBox is a great service which many iOS users use, it has significantly enhanced many iOS apps.

It's great Apple is improving iCloud, but DropBox is also cross-platform which is really helpful to me. In the end hopefully the market will decide, and developers will be able to choose which to offer support for.

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I use both and Dropbox is a poor man's solution. They scraped iDisk because they realized the same thing.

Why is it a poor man's solution? Everyone has different needs and DropBox is a great solution for many people.

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It competes with iCloud, so that is a big no no thru Apple

But that's not why these apps are being rejected. They are being rejected only because of the in-app purchase thing.

DropBox is changing the SDK and working with Apple to come up with a good solution, and I think this problem goes away soon.

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Gone in 2 years? I HIGHLY doubt that!

I highly doubt it too. If anything, some bigger company might buy them out (like Apple originally wanted to).

I think the service has developed a lot of traction with many of its active users. Not only do I use my DropBox across both Mac and PC's, I use it in conjunction with many iOS apps. So to just switch overnight to another service is not something I could do lightly, I would have to be seriously dissatisfied with DropBox or REALLY want to use some other service.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

They are working together to develop a solution.

Arguments about which is better, DropBox or iCloud, are a moot point. DropBox is a great service which many iOS users use, it has significantly enhanced many iOS apps.

It's great Apple is improving iCloud, but DropBox is also cross-platform which is really helpful to me. In the end hopefully the market will decide, and developers will be able to choose which to offer support for.

working together that is rich. It is more having to figure out how to get past Apple dictatorship rules here. Apple is splitting hairs pretty badly to have it where you can drill threw the links to get a purchase version.
I see this more as a sign Apple is planning on offering a dropbox like solution to cloud storage and they are using a BS splitting hairs excuse to try to push dropbox off of iOS.

It is Apple SOP when their competing product sucks they cheat.

 

[lilo777]

Can you tell me how I can use iCloud to share files between my Linux and OS X machines ? How can I use iCloud to stash my .mkv files that I ripped from my DVDs To watch on my Android smartphone ? How I can use iCloud to share a file with some of my friends ?

You can't ? Well, that's because iCloud is not a replacement for Dropbox at all, hence it can't be "superior", since they both serve different purposes.

iDisk was Apple's "dropbox". They scrapped that.

You mentioned a lot of things many iFans will not understand 😀

 

[madmaxmedia]

working together that is rich. It is more having to figure out how to get past Apple dictatorship rules here. Apple is splitting hairs pretty badly to have it where you can drill threw the links to get a purchase version.
I see this more as a sign Apple is planning on offering a dropbox like solution to cloud storage and they are using a BS splitting hairs excuse to try to push dropbox off of iOS.

It is Apple SOP when their competing product sucks they cheat.

I'm just taking that from the original story and quote from DropBox.

For now, they're just going to remove the ability to sign up for new DropBox accounts within the iOS app. I don't think that's a big deal, and has no effect on existing DropBox users.

DropBox wants to be able to allow free account signup within iOS apps, I agree that Apple may not allow it. But even if so they can't push DropBox off iOS, given that DropBox is going to change its SDK to match the iOS developer agreement.

Apple could have denied all DropBox apps from the very beginning, because technically the current behavior doesn't comply with the developer agreement. I'm not happy about that, but it's pretty cut and dried regardless of what other motives might be suspected. And it's pretty cut and dried what DropBox needs to do (and is doing) to comply.

I'm not expecting Apple to continue to deny DropBox apps after the DropBox SDK is changed, but we'll see.

 

[bbeagle]

If the courts declared that jailbreaking was legal because the user owns the phone and could do with it what they please (which they did) I believe its reasonable to then construe that Apple limiting what you can put on your own property is inappropriate. Perhaps monopoly is the wrong term, but that's just semantics.

You're entirely correct that the user owns the phone and can do with it as they please. It's just that Apple doesn't have to help them. Apple does not have to release public SDKs or allow people to purchase development tools. People can make those themselves if they wish.

 

[Renzatic]

I use both and Dropbox is a poor man's solution. They scraped iDisk because they realized the same thing.

Things I've done with Dropbox in the past...

Syncing my files
Hosting a little picture website
Launching portable application
Streaming music and movies
Collaborated on a few little projects

And if I wanted to, there are ways you can use Dropbox to control your computer remotely. Though it's primary job is syncing your files, that isn't the only thing it's good for.

What have I used iCloud for? Mostly I've used it to save the couple of documents I've created in Pages, and back up my iPad info. File transferring? I ported a .txt file from Windows into Pages once, which wasn't nearly as seamless a process as it would be doing the same thing in Dropbox.

iCloud at its best is basically your home folder in the cloud. It's great that iTunes now backs up your music and movies to it. It's great that the iWork suite saves to it automatically. It's great that it automatically funnels the files created therein to all your connected devices without having to do any extra work. But that simplicity comes at a price. You won't ever be able to do anything more with it than that.

It's good for what it is, but it's not Dropbox.

 

[gotluck]

You're entirely correct that the user owns the phone and can do with it as they please. It's just that Apple doesn't have to help them. Apple does not have to release public SDKs or allow people to purchase development tools. People can make those themselves if they wish.

The day will come when the exclusivity of the app store is broken, particularly if the iPad keeps gobbling up market share.

 

[Renzatic]

It is, but it isn't. Microsoft had over 90% of market share of desktop systems already when they pulled their crap, effectively making it a suicide for OEMs to try to sell anything else. They had control.

Apple doesn't.

Yeah, I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. Apple's actions are similar, but the potential for damage isn't nearly so all encompassing since the tablet scene is currently a fractional subset of the entire PC market.

If things keep going the way they are, though...

 

[chrimux]

It's Apple getting back at Dropbox for turning down their 800 million dollar offer 😛

I really wish Apple and Dropbox could have worked something out. Dropbox is amazing. I literally wish my entire hard drive was Dropbox'd haha

Currently at 13GB though, which isn't too shabby! If I knock out the remaining 23 referrals, I could be up to 24.5GB 😎

Btw, who is behind dropbox and why are they giving this service away for free?

 

[babyj]

I see this more as a sign Apple is planning on offering a dropbox like solution to cloud storage and they are using a BS splitting hairs excuse to try to push dropbox off of iOS.

If that was their plan then they wouldn't have killed off iDisk and resisted calls to bring it back. What Apple are trying to do with iCloud is to remove the file system from the user's view. Problem is that iCloud isn't there yet and neither is the app support, though I'm sure they'll get there eventually.

No doubt Apple do want to kill of Dropbox (and the Google / Microsoft equivalents) but they'll do it by offering users a different and (in their view) better way of storing data in the cloud.

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Apple imposing themselves as the only payment processor allowed in apps on iOS is greedy on their part, especially considering the cut they are asking for the privilege (30% is nowhere near industry standards for payment processing).

I don't totally disagree with your argument and points, but you're going to the other extreme trying to compare what Apple do to a payment processor (charging under 5%). Amazon and eBay do less than Apple but charge around 15% (including payment processing) to sell through their market places for example.

There is an argument for Apple to reduce the fee for content stored elsewhere (say to 15%) or for them to host the content. But then you still have the issue of how they'd handle sales leads to services such as Dropbox.

 

[Renzatic]

There is an argument for Apple to reduce the fee for content stored elsewhere (say to 15%) or for them to host the content. But then you still have the issue of how they'd handle sales leads to services such as Dropbox.

The simplest answer would be for Apple to not handle any of the transactions for any service already set up to do so themselves. Dropbox already has a subscription system in place completely separate from the App Store. So hy should they be forced to go through the App Store to make a transaction through the app itself when they've already got a perfectly good setup waiting to go. Why can't they just link the app to it instead?

The only good answer I can think of is to curtail any potential for abuse long before it happens. I'm sure the last thing Apple would want is some fly by night company offering up a payment system through some shady app that ends up fleecing a few thousand people out of their money. Apple did set up the current system for a reason.

BUT

Why should trusted companies such as Dropbox, Netflix, and the rest be treated to the same harsh security standards as a completely unknown entity?

I guess some people would end accusing Apple of playing favorites if they were to exempt some companies from the rules. Taken all into account, there really isn't an easy answer to the question. The only thing we get out of this whole situation is that the one size fits all set of rules they've currently got obviously don't work fairly for everyone.

Apple could afford to be a little less stubborn though, and work with some of these people. Communication is always a good thing, and if there is one thing Apple is unfortunately not, it's communicative.

 

[thewitt]

For now, they're just going to remove the ability to sign up for new DropBox accounts within the iOS app. I don't think that's a big deal, and has no effect on existing DropBox users.

DropBox wants to be able to allow free account signup within iOS apps, I agree that Apple may not allow it. But even if so they can't push DropBox off iOS, given that DropBox is going to change its SDK to match the iOS developer agreement.
.

The DropBox API includes the ability to sign up for PAID Dropbox services, so their fastest way to deal with the issue was to disallow any apps that include the API in order to stop the paid services from being offered.

Apple will allow the FREE Dropbox service sign up within the app, that is not a problem and never has been an issue.

Dropbox wants to keep selling their paid services from within my app, so they are negotiating an agreement with Apple to do so, and when they finish, they will release a new version of their API.

It's really that simple.

 

[sand_man]

Btw, who is behind dropbox and why are they giving this service away for free?

I see Galaxy SGSIII owners using Dropbox will get 50gb of storage space free for the next 2 years.

I wonder how much of Apple's animosity towards Dropbox is fueled by that decision??

 

[bbeagle]

The day will come when the exclusivity of the app store is broken, particularly if the iPad keeps gobbling up market share.

It's not so simple.

The problem is that when you sign up to be a Developer to get the Development Tools, you must agree that any App you make will be sold only on the App Store.

If a rival App Store emerges, there will have to be a set of development tools people can use to create these Apps - something other than XCode.

I don't see anyone willing to spend years developing these tools, when there really is no point.

 

[gotluck]

It's not so simple.

The problem is that when you sign up to be a Developer to get the Development Tools, you must agree that any App you make will be sold only on the App Store.

If a rival App Store emerges, there will have to be a set of development tools people can use to create these Apps - something other than XCode.

I don't see anyone willing to spend years developing these tools, when there really is no point.

People already develop apps for cydia though (they are deb packages as oppsed to ipa 's). Are they breaking the eula and using xcode? - I don't know, but I've yet to see any jailbroken app developer get sued by Apple. Don't forget that many of these apps are sold for money too.

Any change to the exclusivity of the app store would obviously be forced by some governing body. All I'm really talking about is a checkbox that 'allows third party apps'. I doubt developers need any more support than that due to the present success of cydia with absolutely no support from Apple.

 

[thewitt]

Apple won't sue a developer who breaks the rules, however they have been known to suspend developer accounts and remove apps from the App Store.

 

[winston1236]

Good. Developers should be implementing iCloud into their apps, not getting stuck in the past.

Very true if you're not a professional. It would be a bit stupid for me to tell my clients that I can't share files with them unless they pay Apple first.