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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
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8,608
Yah or buy at the right time, Air 2 stutter free for 2 years and iOS 10 there is only 1 spot that is consistently un-smooth that is multitasking.

That's true. The Air 2 is over two years old. Many Android tablets don't even receive OS updates anymore at that point. The fact that the Air 2 is still considered a very good tablet with only slight UI stutters that are likely more of a software issue than a hardware issue is impressive. With the likelihood of new iPads coming in March I probably wouldn't recommend paying full price for an Air 2 right now, but anyone who bought one in 2014 should feel great! It's aged so well that unless you need Pencil functionality, upgrading from an Air 2 to a 9.7" Pro doesn't make much sense to me.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
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True, but I guess mileage may vary. There are plenty of (in my opinion) valid discussions and criticisms regarding these devices that we invest our money in. It's perfectly reasonable to expect certain standards of performance and usability. But I think that people go overboard declaring devices "unusable" because of mild stutter or lag. There are so many people who would love to have that "unusable" iPad. I just think that people should try to have a little perspective.
Overboard? Not really. Whether performance degradation is acceptable or not is a matter of individual opinion. That said, when the iPad starts to not meet my performance expectations, they're given away to family members to enjoy. Win-win (except for my poor wallet, that is). :)
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,017
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Overboard? Not really. Whether performance degradation is acceptable or not is a matter of individual opinion. That said, when the iPad starts to not meet my performance expectations, they're given away to family members to enjoy. Win-win (except for my poor wallet, that is). :)

But if your family members can enjoy them clearly they're not "unusable". That's all I'm saying. People act like their iPad has become a brick because it stutters.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
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But if your family members can enjoy them clearly they're not "unusable". That's all I'm saying. People act like their iPad has become a brick because it stutters.
What's "usable" depends entirely on the person/individual using it. Heck, even a PC with a Pentium II 400MHz CPU and 128MB RAM running Windows 98 is still technically usable. Doesn't mean I'd want to use one.
 
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bufffilm

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May 3, 2011
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It's like I said earlier: Air1 --> better to stay on ios9

The features of ios10 largely ignore the iPad anyway, so why is there a need to load it, in the first place?
 
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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,017
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What's "usable" depends entirely on the person/individual using it. Heck, even a PC with a Pentium II 400MHz CPU and 128MB RAM running Windows 98 is still technically usable. Doesn't mean I'd want to use one.

Well, that wouldn't even run most modern software, so there is a valid argument for it not being usable. Such a system would have serious limitations in terms of what it could do for a modern user.
 
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d5aqoëp

macrumors 68000
Feb 9, 2016
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Air 1 started from iOS 7. Now it has received 3 major updates till iOS 10.

iOS would be 64 bit devices only.

I had Air 1 and after installing the nightmare of stuttering called iOS 8, I immediately noticed the massive performance degradation and complained here bitterly. But then I bit the bullet and got Air 2 in Dec 2014 and sold Air 1. Good riddance.

Air 2 is still great in iOS 10. The tri core CPU, Hexacore GPU and 2 GB RAM helped tremendously.
 
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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
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Air 1 started from iOS 7. Now it has received 3 major updates till iOS 10. I am almost sure that it won't receive iOS 11.

iOS would be 64 bit devices only.

I had Air 1 and after installing the nightmare of stuttering called iOS 8, I immediately noticed the massive performance degradation and complained here bitterly. But then I bit the bullet and got Air 2 in Dec 2014 and sold Air 1. Good riddance.

Air 2 is still great in iOS 10. The tri core CPU, Hexacore GPU and 2 GB RAM helped tremendously.

I think that the Air 1 will get iOS 11 (it does have a 64-bit processor, by the way).
 
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gobikerider

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Air 1 started from iOS 7. Now it has received 3 major updates till iOS 10. I am almost sure that it won't receive iOS 11.

iOS would be 64 bit devices only.

I had Air 1 and after installing the nightmare of stuttering called iOS 8, I immediately noticed the massive performance degradation and complained here bitterly. But then I bit the bullet and got Air 2 in Dec 2014 and sold Air 1. Good riddance.

Air 2 is still great in iOS 10. The tri core CPU, Hexacore GPU and 2 GB RAM helped tremendously.
You realize iOS 8 was buggy in general and the Air is still really fine on iOS 10. Glad you got the Air 2 though it is really nice it ushered in the iPads that are now surpassing laptop performance. Hmmm? Maybe by iOS 12 it'll start to lag ;)
 

d5aqoëp

macrumors 68000
Feb 9, 2016
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I think that the Air 1 will get iOS 11 (it does have a 64-bit processor, by the way).
Thanks for correction. Air 1 was far more underpowered for 1st 64 bit tablet device. Especially in the GPU dept. I don't even regret selling it the moment I came to know that Air 2 has 2 GB RAM and beefed up graphics.
 

QCassidy352

macrumors G5
Mar 20, 2003
12,028
6,036
Bay Area
It's like I said earlier: Air1 --> better to stay on ios9

The features of ios10 largely ignore the iPad anyway, so why is there a need to load it, in the first place?
I'd go a step further. I just don't see the need for iOS 10 on anything. It just really doesn't add anything of value. (I have 10 on my iPad and 9 on my iPhone)
 

Skika

macrumors 68030
Mar 11, 2009
2,999
1,246
Thanks for correction. Air 1 was far more underpowered for 1st 64 bit tablet device. Especially in the GPU dept. I don't even regret selling it the moment I came to know that Air 2 has 2 GB RAM and beefed up graphics.

The most crippling factor in the Air1 was the 1GB on RAM.
 

d5aqoëp

macrumors 68000
Feb 9, 2016
1,658
2,729
The most crippling factor in the Air1 was the 1GB on RAM.
One can still get around the app refreshing problem arising out of 1 GB RAM. But UI stuttering due to poor GPU was the final nail in Air's coffin.
 

Skika

macrumors 68030
Mar 11, 2009
2,999
1,246
One can still get around the app refreshing problem arising out of 1 GB RAM. But UI stuttering due to poor GPU was the final nail in Air's coffin.

Ram is shared with the gpu, let that be a thought.
 

pdoherty

macrumors 65816
Dec 30, 2014
1,335
1,594
Really? My Mini 4 isn't lagging on iOS 10, and it's somewhere in between an Air 1 and 2 in terms of power.
[doublepost=1479266353][/doublepost]

Yeah, I have to say, it's the definition of First World problems when your iPad is considered "unusable" because of 2 seconds delay. Certainly not the best user experience, but "unusable" is being a bit melodramatic.

Speaking of melodramatic, are you saying that people living in mud huts aren't concerned about the delays that annoy users of iPads that have been upgraded to iOS 10? Tell me more unexpected things...

I mean what is the point of even saying that? We should be OK with moving our device performance down because somebody in the world has big problems with basic things like food or shelter?
 
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joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,017
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Speaking of melodramatic, are you saying that people living in mud huts aren't concerned about the delays that annoy users of iPads that have been upgraded to iOS 10? Tell me more unexpected things...

I mean what is the point of even saying that? We should be OK with moving our device performance down because somebody in the world has big problems with basic things like food or shelter?

There's valid concerns regarding the performance of one's device, expressed in a reasonable way, and then there's, "Oh my god! My iPad is an unusable hunk of junk because there's an animation stutter when I open an app!!". Many comments tend towards the latter, and in my humble opinion it's not called for. You obviously don't have to agree.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,377
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Ram is shared with the gpu, let that be a thought.
It is. For the most part though, it's the memory bandwidth that matters more for speed and not the amount that's installed.

These results were taken from AnandTech.

GFXBench Manhattan ES 3.0 Onscreen Ave FPS
56.1 iPhone 6s (A9, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 1334*750, 1MP)
35.7 iPad Pro 9.7 (A9X, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
33.2 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 4GB 2ch LPDDR4, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
27.2 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2GB 2ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
26.7 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
26.1 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
8.8 iPad Air (A7, 1GB 1ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)

GFXBench T-Rex HD Onscreen Ave FPS
59.4 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
59.0 iPhone 6s (A9, 1334*750, 1MP)
52.4 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
49.6 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
40.9 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
21.2 iPad Air (A7, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)

I think it's pretty interesting that the Air 2 just barely tops iPhone 5s performance in the Manhattan Onscreen bench. Also interesting is the hierarchy of A9/A9X devices. Despite having 4GB of dual channel RAM, the Pro 12.9 sits at the bottom of the pile due to its much higher resolution. Even the Pro 9.7 with 2GB of single channel RAM edges it out a wee bit. Meanwhile, the 6s is sitting pretty at the top delivering almost 60FPS.

Of course, if you choose a fixed resolution, you can compare the relative raw performance among these devices and the picture changes drastically. Kind of a moot point though since the GPU has to be able to drive the display/screen resolution it comes with.

GFXBench Manhattan ES 3.0 Offscreen 1080p (2.1MP) Ave FPS
80.0 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 4GB 2ch LPDDR4, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
50.8 iPad Pro 9.7 (A9X, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
40.1 iPhone 6s (A9, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 1334*750, 1MP)
37.8 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2GB 2ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
18.2 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
13.1 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
13.0 iPad Air (A7, 1GB 1ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)

You realize iOS 8 was buggy in general and the Air is still really fine on iOS 10. Glad you got the Air 2 though it is really nice it ushered in the iPads that are now surpassing laptop performance. Hmmm? Maybe by iOS 12 it'll start to lag ;)
Surpassing laptop performance? On pure processing power, the Air 2 just barely matches up with Intel Atom. The Pro 9.7 can match Intel Core microarchitecture but only the low-power chips designed for tablets and ultraportables.

Granted, Windows is bloated so for overall system performance, even the iPad 3 tends to be more responsive than the average PC with slow HDD or crappy SSD. If one has a higher clocked dual core or quad core workstation with decent SSD and at least 8GB RAM, even the iPad Pros don't come close. General performance on light tasks will be the same but raw number crunching would go to the workstation.
 
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gobikerider

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It is. For the most part though, it's the memory bandwidth that matters more for speed and not the amount that's installed.

These results were taken from AnandTech.

GFXBench Manhattan ES 3.0 Onscreen Ave FPS
56.1 iPhone 6s (A9, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 1334*750, 1MP)
35.7 iPad Pro 9.7 (A9X, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
33.2 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 4GB 2ch LPDDR4, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
27.2 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2GB 2ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
26.7 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
26.1 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
8.8 iPad Air (A7, 1GB 1ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)

GFXBench T-Rex HD Onscreen Ave FPS
59.4 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
59.0 iPhone 6s (A9, 1334*750, 1MP)
52.4 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
49.6 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
40.9 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
21.2 iPad Air (A7, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)

I think it's pretty interesting that the Air 2 just barely tops iPhone 5s performance in the Manhattan Onscreen bench. Also interesting is the hierarchy of A9/A9X devices. Despite having 4GB of dual channel RAM, the Pro 12.9 sits at the bottom of the pile due to its much higher resolution. Even the Pro 9.7 with 2GB of single channel RAM edges it out a wee bit. Meanwhile, the 6s is sitting pretty at the top delivering almost 60FPS.

Of course, if you choose a fixed resolution, you can compare the relative raw performance among these devices and the picture changes drastically. Kind of a moot point though since the GPU has to be able to drive the display/screen resolution it comes with.

GFXBench Manhattan ES 3.0 Offscreen 1080p (2.1MP) Ave FPS
80.0 iPad Pro 12.9 (A9X, 4GB 2ch LPDDR4, 2732*2048, 5.6MP)
50.8 iPad Pro 9.7 (A9X, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
40.1 iPhone 6s (A9, 2GB 1ch LPDDR4, 1334*750, 1MP)
37.8 iPad Air 2 (A8X, 2GB 2ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)
18.2 iPhone 6 (A8, 1334*750, 1MP)
13.1 iPhone 5s (A7, 1136*640, 0.7MP)
13.0 iPad Air (A7, 1GB 1ch LPDDR3, 2048*1536, 3.1MP)


Surpassing laptop performance? On pure processing power, the Air 2 just barely matches up with Intel Atom. The Pro 9.7 can match Intel Core microarchitecture but only the low-power chips designed for tablets and ultraportables.

Granted, Windows is bloated so for overall system performance, even the iPad 3 tends to be more responsive than the average PC with slow HDD or crappy SSD. If one has a higher clocked dual core or quad core workstation with decent SSD and at least 8GB RAM, even the iPad Pros don't come close. General performance on light tasks will be the same but raw number crunching would go to the workstation.
Obviously but for your everyday computer iPad superior at this point
 
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slapple

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2008
466
21
For those who thought iOS 10 was slow on the iPad Air, did upgrading to iOS 10.3.3 improve things at all?

My parents have an iPad Air running iOS 8 I think, and they just noticed the Youtube app doesn't work anymore. I guess I'll have to upgrade it to iOS 10.3.3, and hope it's not too slow.
 
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Donfor39

macrumors 68000
Jul 26, 2012
1,896
371
Lanarkshire Scotland
For those who thought iOS 10 was slow on the iPad Air, did upgrading to iOS 10.3.3 improve things at all?

My parents have an iPad Air running iOS 8 I think, and they just noticed the Youtube app doesn't work anymore. I guess I'll have to upgrade it to iOS 10.3.3, and hope it's not too slow.


Yes -10.3.3 was excellent via air As was 11
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,377
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For those who thought iOS 10 was slow on the iPad Air, did upgrading to iOS 10.3.3 improve things at all?

My parents have an iPad Air running iOS 8 I think, and they just noticed the Youtube app doesn't work anymore. I guess I'll have to upgrade it to iOS 10.3.3, and hope it's not too slow.
Personally, I find iOS 9 and 10 more stable than iOS 8 on the iPad Air. Not having to deal with frequent crashes actually made the Air more "usable" for me.
 

gobikerider

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For those who thought iOS 10 was slow on the iPad Air, did upgrading to iOS 10.3.3 improve things at all?

My parents have an iPad Air running iOS 8 I think, and they just noticed the Youtube app doesn't work anymore. I guess I'll have to upgrade it to iOS 10.3.3, and hope it's not too slow.
Do this and I Gaurentee you a better experience.
1. Have your parents delete any old apps they don't use anymore
2. Do a iCloud Backup
3. Connect to iTunes and click Restore
4. When it finishes disconnect the iPad from the computer no go through setup, on the iPad it'll ask "Set up as New or iCloud Backup Restore.
5. Click the iCloud option select your backup you just did in step 2 and enter the Apple ID password to authenticate. Then in 10-15 minutes, there iPad will be good as new. Actually if they have a lot of apps to restore I would just let the iPad sit for a hour to let it re download everything. That way your parents don't have to worry about it when they get it back.
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,751
2,337
Los Angeles, CA
I've felt this way about iOS 10 on the iPad mini 2 and the mini 2 uses the same A7 as is in the iPhone 5s; which is to say, not quite as powerful as the A7 that went into the original iPad Air. Even the current public beta of iOS 11 is downright sluggish. They need to cut it off before it gets to this point as they're ruining perfectly functional devices this way.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,377
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My parents have an iPad Air running iOS 8 I think, and they just noticed the Youtube app doesn't work anymore. I guess I'll have to upgrade it to iOS 10.3.3, and hope it's not too slow.
By the way, have you tried just reinstalling YouTube? I have an iPad 4 still on iOS 6 and both YouTube and Netflix apps still work (albeit, the apps haven't been updated in forever). The Netflix is good to have since Netflix on iOS 10 doesn't allow screenshots anymore. :p
 
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