iPad Air 2 or Surface 3 ?

[akimoriRyuuji]

No offense, but I think you're the person with an RT, which is completely different than what the surface 3/pro 3 are. It would be analogous to trying to give a review of the iPad Air 2 based on only owning an iPad 1.

Anyway -

I sold my 15" MacBook Pro and 11" air because of the Surface Pro 3.

It fit my needs and actually did much more for me than those MacBooks AND my iPad Air 2.

StaffPad is absolutely amazing, and after years of trying to make writing music on the iPad work - StaffPad blows it out of the water completely. Same for OneNote - I've used GoodNotes for years and tried to go paperless - until apple embraces a native active stylus - there's just no competition.

Same for PDF - if you're someone who needs to write on them and do markups - iAnnotate was my go to app on the Air 2.

Not anymore! Drawboard PDF is leaps and bounds better.

I don't really play games - but hello! Sudoku and crossword puzzles on the SP3 allows you to actually write on the game board.

One of my favorite uses for it is taking notes using split screen. I really kind of think splitscreen on the Air 2 will be a mistake (more so a gimmick).

The areas that make having split screen useful are too limited on the iPad, and the screen is way too small.

No, it's not irrelevant at all. You know why? Because it's the apps I'm referring to. The modern apps selection is pitiful. That is why the Surface fails as a tablet. Desktop apps are not a replacement for tablet apps, so therefore, the Surface is a bad tablet.

 

[dyn]

No offense, but I think you're the person with an RT, which is completely different than what the surface 3/pro 3 are. It would be analogous to trying to give a review of the iPad Air 2 based on only owning an iPad 1.

If you want to properly compare a Microsoft tablet to the iPad and/or Android offerings than the Surface RT is actually the only proper one. The others are ultrabooks that look like a tablet. The RT is the only one that actually is meant to be like a tablet like the iPad/Android ones.

The RT can only really use the Modern Windows apps which are more like the apps found on iOS/Android and Windows Mobile/Phone. The other Surfaces are full blown notebooks and are able to use the Modern apps as well as the desktop apps. Since there aren't that many Modern apps around most people use desktops apps. It's usually the main reason why people are buying the Pro version and not the RT one.

If you really want to compare the Surface 3/Pro 3 to an Apple device then you should compare it with the MB, MBA, MBP because most people will use them like a notebook.

 

[Altis]

If you want to properly compare a Microsoft tablet to the iPad and/or Android offerings than the Surface RT is actually the only proper one. The others are ultrabooks that look like a tablet. The RT is the only one that actually is meant to be like a tablet like the iPad/Android ones.

The RT can only really use the Modern Windows apps which are more like the apps found on iOS/Android and Windows Mobile/Phone. The other Surfaces are full blown notebooks and are able to use the Modern apps as well as the desktop apps. Since there aren't that many Modern apps around most people use desktops apps. It's usually the main reason why people are buying the Pro version and not the RT one.

If you really want to compare the Surface 3/Pro 3 to an Apple device then you should compare it with the MB, MBA, MBP because most people will use them like a notebook.

The RT is effectively discontinued now, so it's not really reasonable to compare it with the current lineups.

It's still fair to compare the Surface 3 and iPad because the cost and form factor are similar. Just because the iPad has an OS that is made for finger touch (since there is no other option) while the Surface 3 Windows not does not change that. Windows 10 should bridge the gap fairly soon anyways.

The Surface 3 is still a tablet computer. It's small, light, portable.. You can still use it to read, watch movies, and browse the web just as you would an iPad. You can also use it for precision drawing and annotations, which is something that tablets are supposed to be good at (though the iPad is not).

Just because it now runs a full desktop operating system and has lots of additional features like user accounts, ports (and full docking capability), an accessible file system, etc... does not make it somehow not a competitor to the iPad.

 

[dyn]

The Surface 3 is the same as the Surface 3 Pro in terms of what it can do. The only difference is the specs. It's more like the MB vs the MBP. Which is exactly the machines you need to compare the current models to. The only Windows device you can compare to the iPad is the Surface RT. Since it is now discontinued there simply isn't a Windows model to compare to. The current Surface models only look like tablets, they still run a full fledged desktop OS comparable to OS X and thus are completely different beasts than the iPad which doesn't run a full fledged desktop OS.

What you are doing now is saying that a truck is the same as a small car which isn't true at all. A truck can carry lots more cargo while the small car takes up less space and is much more manoeuvrable.

The reason why the RT is the only one you can compare to the iPad has to do with what it can do, or better yet, what it can't do. The problem with the other Surface devices is exactly that full fledged desktop OS. You're going to use the desktop software with it because there simply isn't that much non-desktop software around (aka Modern UI stuff). Also, the audience buying those devices are buying it because it has a full fledged desktop OS. iPad and RT buyers buy the iPad/RT because it doesn't have that full fledged desktop OS. Or back to the car analogy: people buying a large car are buying it because they want/need a large car. People who buy a small car are buying it because it isn't large.

 

[David58117]

If you want to properly compare a Microsoft tablet to the iPad and/or Android offerings than the Surface RT is actually the only proper one. The others are ultrabooks that look like a tablet. The RT is the only one that actually is meant to be like a tablet like the iPad/Android ones.

The RT can only really use the Modern Windows apps which are more like the apps found on iOS/Android and Windows Mobile/Phone. The other Surfaces are full blown notebooks and are able to use the Modern apps as well as the desktop apps. Since there aren't that many Modern apps around most people use desktops apps. It's usually the main reason why people are buying the Pro version and not the RT one.

If you really want to compare the Surface 3/Pro 3 to an Apple device then you should compare it with the MB, MBA, MBP because most people will use them like a notebook.

Not at all.

I use my Surface Pro 3 for everything I did with my iPad Air 2 - now you're telling me it's not fair to compare them?

I also use only metro apps - it has everything I need, and more than does the essentials.

The only non metro app is my virus scanner..

Internet, PDF, notes, even anatomy study app are all metro..even file explorer is a metro app.

RT is outdated and not even supported anymore I believe.

 

[MrWillie]

I find the Surface poor as a laptop, and poor as a tablet. If I need heavy duty work done, I use a high end laptop or workstation.

Office documents, alarm sound files, reading, research, photo editing (I don't work for National Geographic, and am sure that they don't use a Surface 3 for their photo editing either.) ect, I use the iPad. I also have numerous BT keyboards that I use with it from time to time.

Anything that I would want to do on a Surface, I can do better on an iPad or laptop.

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

The RT is effectively discontinued now, so it's not really reasonable to compare it with the current lineups.

It's still fair to compare the Surface 3 and iPad because the cost and form factor are similar. Just because the iPad has an OS that is made for finger touch (since there is no other option) while the Surface 3 Windows not does not change that. Windows 10 should bridge the gap fairly soon anyways.

The Surface 3 is still a tablet computer. It's small, light, portable.. You can still use it to read, watch movies, and browse the web just as you would an iPad. You can also use it for precision drawing and annotations, which is something that tablets are supposed to be good at (though the iPad is not).

Just because it now runs a full desktop operating system and has lots of additional features like user accounts, ports (and full docking capability), an accessible file system, etc... does not make it somehow not a competitor to the iPad.

Yeah it's discontinued, but Windows RunTime is not discontinued. (The API that powers Modern Apps)

 

[David58117]

I find the Surface poor as a laptop, and poor as a tablet. If I need heavy duty work done, I use a high end laptop or workstation.

Office documents, alarm sound files, reading, research, photo editing (I don't work for National Geographic, and am sure that they don't use a Surface 3 for their photo editing either.) ect, I use the iPad. I also have numerous BT keyboards that I use with it from time to time.

Anything that I would want to do on a Surface, I can do better on an iPad or laptop.

Except writing notes, annotating PDFs, drawing/painting, taking notes from a video or website in one window while using another to write your notes, writing music notation with StaffPad, etc etc etc.

Also - are you really saying the iPad does photo editing better than an i5/i7 windows machine with 8GB ram?

 

[akimoriRyuuji]

Except writing notes, annotating PDFs, drawing/painting, taking notes from a video or website in one window while using another to write your notes, writing music notation with StaffPad, etc etc etc.

How often do you do half that stuff? Some of it is cool, but it's not like iPads can't do some of that (or won't be able to in the near future). Drawing/painting on the iPad isn't as fun as on the Surface EXCEPT for the fact there are numerous applications available for the iPad that make it rather fun and they support some stylus'. But you know, a pro artist isn't going to buy an iPad or even a Surface (unless they can't afford a Wacom Cintiq or whatever)

In any case, that doesn't suit my use case. I'd rather use a tablet that has tons of applications that I can enjoy (you know, without using a pen or attaching the keyboard and then just taking it off again 5 minutes later...)

 

[Altis]

How often do you do half that stuff? Some of it is cool, but it's not like iPads can't do some of that (or won't be able to in the near future). Drawing/painting on the iPad isn't as fun as on the Surface EXCEPT for the fact there are numerous applications available for the iPad that make it rather fun and they support some stylus'. But you know, a pro artist isn't going to buy an iPad or even a Surface (unless they can't afford a Wacom Cintiq or whatever)

In any case, that doesn't suit my use case. I'd rather use a tablet that has tons of applications that I can enjoy (you know, without using a pen or attaching the keyboard and then just taking it off again 5 minutes later...)

I'd wager that most students would take a lot of notes, or people who do meetings. Are you familiar with how advanced OneNote is for that stuff? I especially like taking notes with the audio recording, and how everything you type or draw is synced with the audio so you can play what you heard when you took that note or search the audio for words. Drawing on the iPad and taking notes with it is incredibly tedious. I think you'll also find that lots of non-"pro artists" like to draw on a tablet that is capable of it with a precise, pressure-sensitive pen.

Your sole argument seems to be that there's this grand App store, and you're right. But a lot of those apps are just solving basic problems that you wouldn't have on the Surface 3 anyways (like dealing with files), or a tablet-version of a web service. In pretty well every other way than the App store, the Surface 3 offers more versatility.

Even just not having tabs refresh endlessly, having windows side-by-side (actual multitasking), USB for drives, peripherals, printers, etc, a file structure you can access, the ability to dock it (or use mouse, keyboard and external monitor even) so you might not need to buy a laptop/desktop at all, multiple user accounts, websites actually show up properly, the cover can be a keyboard, being able to take notes from a video or second window (such as PDF) while writing papers, and so on.

I'm not saying the Surface 3 is perfect by any means, but it sure offers a heck of a lot of capability over the iPad. I'm looking forward to seeing how Windows 10 will refine the UI for tablet use, but I don't even think it's that bad as it is.

Even just putting videos on the iPad to take with you on a trip can be a lot of work. With the Surface, just toss them all on a USB drive or SD card and take off. Want to listen to YouTube while browsing? No problem. Attach files in email reply? Piece of cake.

 

[David58117]

How often do you do half that stuff? Some of it is cool, but it's not like iPads can't do some of that (or won't be able to in the near future). Drawing/painting on the iPad isn't as fun as on the Surface EXCEPT for the fact there are numerous applications available for the iPad that make it rather fun and they support some stylus'. But you know, a pro artist isn't going to buy an iPad or even a Surface (unless they can't afford a Wacom Cintiq or whatever)

In any case, that doesn't suit my use case. I'd rather use a tablet that has tons of applications that I can enjoy (you know, without using a pen or attaching the keyboard and then just taking it off again 5 minutes later...)

Actually all the time.

I read a lot of PDFs and take notes with OneNote running side by side, quite a bit..or have a video running and taking notes off that.

I work in the medical field, and my hobby is writing music.

So StaffPad is simply amazing. I have apps for the ipad as well - but nothing comes even close to StaffPad.

I (surprisingly) actually really like metro - I have my most used PDFs on it ready to open right where I left off. I use to use iAnnotate on the iPad Air 2 - now just use the surface.

I have a folder with all my sheet music in it, and I could use the pen to make changes or annotate something very easily (and in better quality than anything the iPad can do).

For games - all I really play is sudoku sometimes - and I'd much rather the pen/paper presentation than what the iPad has.

This may be stupid - but I actually was on the phone the other day and needed to take quick notes and didn't have any paper - but my surface was closed and on the table. I just pressed the top button on the pen and it turned on and had a virtual sheet of paper ready to go.

The iPad Air 2 definitely wins in form factor, and I kind of miss it when trying to lay in bed with the surface pro 3 - but that's the only thing it wins on, in my opinion.

My wife has my old iPad Air 2 now, and I have her iPad mini. The mini is the pool tablet now (it has a life proof case) for when we want to sit in the pool and read..

The iPad Air 2 is definitely the best tablet Apple has done though..

 

[dukebound85]

this September

you have no idea

 

[dyn]

Except writing notes, annotating PDFs, drawing/painting, taking notes from a video or website in one window while using another to write your notes, writing music notation with StaffPad, etc etc etc.

If you have too much money yes but if you're smart you use much cheaper tools that are also much more suited for the job and much more mature: good old pen & paper.

I'd wager that most students would take a lot of notes, or people who do meetings.

Yes with pen and paper. Only a handful will do it on electronic devices like the iPad or the Surface (Pro). Writing on glass is still really really awkward and uncomfortable, typing is way too slow. Also the note apps are nowhere near the functionality of just plain pen and paper. You also don't continuously have to wake the device or have a drop in battery life because you have to keep it running. Any tablet or 2-in-1 device like the Surface has these disadvantages and still aren't very suited for note taking.

I especially like taking notes with the audio recording, and how everything you type or draw is synced with the audio so you can play what you heard when you took that note or search the audio for words.

Which is also the only way to keep up. It has another disadvantage: notes don't stick as well as when you use pen and paper. This has to do with the areas of your brain that you use when taking notes with pen and paper vs digital ones.

Tablets are a very expensive and inefficient for note taking. They are not suited for that...yet!

I'm not saying the Surface 3 is perfect by any means, but it sure offers a heck of a lot of capability over the iPad.

It entirely depends on what you're after. You want it to work like a desktop or want it to be a simple and easy to use device. Just because the Surface can do a lot doesn't make it better over the iPad (or vice versa). It's a different kind of device with a different point of view on both tablets and notebooks. It is not for everyone.

 

[Neodym]

iPad Air 2: 444g
Surface 3: 622g ( --> 40% heavier)
Surface Pro 3: 800g ( --> 80% heavier)

--> No contest in the tablet segment.

 

[Altis]

If you have too much money yes but if you're smart you use much cheaper tools that are also much more suited for the job and much more mature: good old pen & paper.


Yes with pen and paper. Only a handful will do it on electronic devices like the iPad or the Surface (Pro). Writing on glass is still really really awkward and uncomfortable, typing is way too slow. Also the note apps are nowhere near the functionality of just plain pen and paper. You also don't continuously have to wake the device or have a drop in battery life because you have to keep it running. Any tablet or 2-in-1 device like the Surface has these disadvantages and still aren't very suited for note taking.


Which is also the only way to keep up. It has another disadvantage: notes don't stick as well as when you use pen and paper. This has to do with the areas of your brain that you use when taking notes with pen and paper vs digital ones.

Tablets are a very expensive and inefficient for note taking. They are not suited for that...yet!


It entirely depends on what you're after. You want it to work like a desktop or want it to be a simple and easy to use device. Just because the Surface can do a lot doesn't make it better over the iPad (or vice versa). It's a different kind of device with a different point of view on both tablets and notebooks. It is not for everyone.

Your point seems to be centered entirely around pen-paper vs computer (tablet or otherwise), and I tend to agree with what you're saying for the most part. I personally prefer pen and paper, but then I'm also a bit of a pen and paper geek (hello Rhodia DotPad). I'm also a little old fashioned and I still use a desktop for 90% of my computing needs. I would rather have two 24-27" monitors, a proper keyboard, and a desk to work at. But that's kind of besides the point of this thread, other than the fact that the Surface 3 can do this while the iPad certainly cannot.

My focus was on iPad versus Surface, as per the thread. Between those two, the Surface is indisputably more versatile for most of these tasks (business and student use). The iPad has some advantages, like native app support and the form factor is better suited for some tasks, but its limitations are very many.

 

[zhenya]

Writing on glass is still really really awkward and uncomfortable, typing is way too slow. Also the note apps are nowhere near the functionality of just plain pen and paper.

Just like anything else, writing on glass is something that you adapt to. Pen and paper isn't actually all that convenient or comfortable in many ways, but people are well adapted to it, and have adjusted to its down-sides. With a decent device like the Surface, I'm just as fast now as I ever was with pen and paper. And I'd thoroughly disagree - pen and paper is nowhere near the functionality of good note taking apps. Not even in the same ballpark.

That said - typing is generally a LOT faster than handwriting for even a mediocre typist, let alone one who spends some time learning to ten finger type. I'd say I'm 3-4 times faster with a keyboard than handwriting. Not sure why you think the opposite?

 

[David58117]

If you have too much money yes but if you're smart you use much cheaper tools that are also much more suited for the job and much more mature: good old pen & paper.


Yes with pen and paper. Only a handful will do it on electronic devices like the iPad or the Surface (Pro). Writing on glass is still really really awkward and uncomfortable, typing is way too slow. Also the note apps are nowhere near the functionality of just plain pen and paper. You also don't continuously have to wake the device or have a drop in battery life because you have to keep it running. Any tablet or 2-in-1 device like the Surface has these disadvantages and still aren't very suited for note taking.

Yeah - I'm going to go with - you've never seriously used the technology you're commenting about (atleast recently). The fact that you think you have to continually wake the device is a give away..and 7-8 hours of note taking I would think is pretty good..

I bought the i5/4GB SP3 for a little over $1,000 - with keyboard and of course pen. It's an actual i5/4GB computer, - my MacBook Air 11" cost me over $900 for approx similar performance (actually less) and doesn't do half the stuff the SP3 does. Also the screen on the MacBook is abysmal compared to the surfaces screen.

i think the non pro version starts at $499, and is more tablet like. The iPad Air 2 also starts at $499 - for a 16GB model.

Sorry buddy, but printing slides just to write on them during lecture is such a waste. Having to carry notebooks everywhere you want to study, is outdated. Also one of the coolest things I think it does - the ability to download forms (I'm a nurse and needed to submit documents to the state recently) - I downloaded them, used the pen to fill them out, printed them (it looked like I used my sharpie pen!) and sent them in. I now also have a complete record of it all.

I really don't think you understand what app syncing is. Anything I write on my SP3 I have automatically synced to my iPhone - I really don't need to carry notebooks, and when I have downtime at work (as a returning, non trad student) - all my notes are with me. Why you think having a pile of notebooks and being a slave to carrying them everywhere you want to study, is beyond me.

I see students with 13" Macbook pros all the time - the Surface Pro 3 + keyboard are actually cheaper and do much more.

Also - for many of us raised with computers - typing is so much faster than writing.

 

[rowspaxe]

How often do you do half that stuff? Some of it is cool, but it's not like iPads can't do some of that (or won't be able to in the near future). Drawing/painting on the iPad isn't as fun as on the Surface EXCEPT for the fact there are numerous applications available for the iPad that make it rather fun and they support some stylus'. But you know, a pro artist isn't going to buy an iPad or even a Surface (unless they can't afford a Wacom Cintiq or whatever)

In any case, that doesn't suit my use case. I'd rather use a tablet that has tons of applications that I can enjoy (you know, without using a pen or attaching the keyboard and then just taking it off again 5 minutes later...)

 

[rowspaxe]

I find it so sad when posters assert an equivalance between pen functionality on the ipad and the surface--there is NO comparison

 

[rowspaxe]

Your sole argument seems to be that there's this grand App store, and you're right. But a lot of those apps are just solving basic problems that you wouldn't have on the Surface 3 anyways (like dealing with files), or a tablet-version of a web service. In pretty well every other way than the App store, the Surface 3 offers more versatility.

 

[rowspaxe]

If your in love with the apple ios app ecosystem--you will probrably find the Surface3 very limiting. Like this poster--I find the advantages of having a non-mobile browser and a real file system more than compensate. Finally, it all comes down to the pen. If you use the pen, this machine is beyond awesome. If you dont--you'll likely do better with a laptop and ipad

 

[rowspaxe]

The Surface 3 is a computer, just like a laptop. It has its pros and cons. It is slow and lags a lot.

I have had mine for 3 months and have noticed no lag in any use context. Its amazing with sketchbook pro and artrage.
I think the next version will be more powerful--but i am very happy with this surface3

 

[crjackson2134]

No offense, but I think you're the person with an RT, which is completely different than what the surface 3/pro 3 are. It would be analogous to trying to give a review of the iPad Air 2 based on only owning an iPad 1.

Anyway -

I sold my 15" MacBook Pro and 11" air because of the Surface Pro 3.

It fit my needs and actually did much more for me than those MacBooks AND my iPad Air 2.

StaffPad is absolutely amazing, and after years of trying to make writing music on the iPad work - StaffPad blows it out of the water completely. Same for OneNote - I've used GoodNotes for years and tried to go paperless - until apple embraces a native active stylus - there's just no competition.

Same for PDF - if you're someone who needs to write on them and do markups - iAnnotate was my go to app on the Air 2.

Not anymore! Drawboard PDF is leaps and bounds better.

I don't really play games - but hello! Sudoku and crossword puzzles on the SP3 allows you to actually write on the game board.

One of my favorite uses for it is taking notes using split screen. I really kind of think splitscreen on the Air 2 will be a mistake (more so a gimmick).

The areas that make having split screen useful are too limited on the iPad, and the screen is way too small.

Just curious, as to why you are here on the Apple forums if you ditched all your substandard Apple devices for the wonderful world of windows?

Please don't be offended, I'm not aiming for that. I have MANY Apple devices from top to bottom. I have MANY Windows machines from Desktops to Laptops (no phones), and MANY Linux devices from Desktops to Phones and everything in between. They all have their uses and I do prefer my Apple machines/devices over the others. They just work better and are less fiddley for the most part (more dependable, predictable, less glitchy). They all have their place however.

I've very little use for Linux lately and even less for Windows but once in a while I'll need to do something where the best tool for the job isn't Applecentric but it's becoming very rare.

That said, I wouldn't even be on these forums if I had ditched Apple and felt everything else was superior.

 

[David58117]

Just curious, as to why you are here on the Apple forums if you ditched all your substandard Apple devices for the wonderful world of windows?

Please don't be offended, I'm not aiming for that. I have MANY Apple devices from top to bottom. I have MANY Windows machines from Desktops to Laptops (no phones), and MANY Linux devices from Desktops to Phones and everything in between. They all have their uses and I do prefer my Apple machines/devices over the others. They just work better and are less fiddley for the most part (more dependable, predictable, less glitchy). They all have thir place however.

I've very little use for Linux lately and even less for Windows but once in a while I'll need to do something where the best tool for the job isn't Applecentric but it's becoming very rare.

That said, I wouldn't even be on these forums if I had ditched Apple and felt everything else was superior.

Ditched apple?

I still have an iPad mini, iPhone, apple watch - my wife has an iPad air 2, 11" Macbook air. Hell, I even gave a 2012 mac mini to my dad and 11" air to my mom recently.

Apple is definitely my preferred computer company, and once they release a tablet/hybrid with active stylus input - ill be first in line.

But until that happens - I have to recommend the SP3 over a macbook or iPad, specifically for students.

 

[crjackson2134]

Ditched apple?

I still have an iPad mini, iPhone, apple watch - my wife has an iPad air 2, 11" Macbook air. Hell, I even gave a 2012 mac mini to my dad and 11" air to my mom recently.

Apple is definitely my preferred computer company, and once they release a tablet/hybrid with active stylus input - ill be first in line.

But until that happens - I have to recommend the SP3 over a macbook or iPad, specifically for students.

Gotcha, I thought you were saying you weren't using anything but the SP. Thanks for the clarification.