I'm most curious about this as well. We should be able to swap SIMs no problem, but will the original carriers plans always be the ones displayed on the data screen?
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Carrier iPad Air: *Really* One LTE Model?
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I'm most curious about this as well. We should be able to swap SIMs no problem, but will the original carriers plans always be the ones displayed on the data screen?
Some folks seem to have had success with this, but that's a good question. And unfortunately, the policy of a specific carrier is always subject to change with or without notice.
Verizon will notice the SIM is in an iPad, but seeing as you'd be paying for a full cellular plan, they have little reason to do anything about it.
This thread seems to have some useful info: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1537806/
I expect this KB article may shine some light on that: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1970?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
we are all overthinking this...
Assuming that
1 - eliminating / minimizing models created by radio/LTE band fragmentation is advantageous for Apple to do
2 - apple knows how to build soft/firmware that enables a single model across all carriers (e.g. IPhone 4S)
3 - given that ONE Air/Retina Mini model (each) is listed as the model for EVERY market (country), and assuming there is no plan to not sell these in an existing market
4 - there was an article on LTE band frag on the iPhone 5 (just google it) and it noted pending Qualcomm (?) chip that eliminates it
5 - The Apple model vs LTE band vs country vs carrier table is right
I would bet that swapping sims is all you need to do to change carriers on these iPads anywhere on planet Earth.
Now if only the iPhone 6 had only 1 model...
T.C.
Assuming that
1 - eliminating / minimizing models created by radio/LTE band fragmentation is advantageous for Apple to do
2 - apple knows how to build soft/firmware that enables a single model across all carriers (e.g. IPhone 4S)
3 - given that ONE Air/Retina Mini model (each) is listed as the model for EVERY market (country), and assuming there is no plan to not sell these in an existing market
4 - there was an article on LTE band frag on the iPhone 5 (just google it) and it noted pending Qualcomm (?) chip that eliminates it
5 - The Apple model vs LTE band vs country vs carrier table is right
I would bet that swapping sims is all you need to do to change carriers on these iPads anywhere on planet Earth.
Now if only the iPhone 6 had only 1 model...
T.C.
Well, you can buy a Verizon iPhone5 and insert a T-Mobile SIM and it immediately works. No unlocking or anything else needed. I don't know why it would be different on the ipad.
The idea of GSM is that carriers don't know or care what device you are using. I have used unlocked GSM phones for years and you can pop in AT&T, T Mobile or other GSM SIMS in them and they immediately work with whatever phone number and plan is associated with that SIM. If you insert a SIM with data service activated into an iPAD, it should work.
The way GSM works is that the SIM is either activated or not, so if the SIM is working in another device, when you remove it and stick it in your iPad, it should continue working on the ipad.
CDMA is a different issue, as you can't easily switch carriers with CDMA service. However ATT, T mobile and I believe Verizon LTE only are all GSM services so you should be able to use any of these services. Not sure about Sprint. I believe the GSM vs CDMA incompatibility is why Apple has the statement on its website about "Choose your carrier at checkout because the device will only work with the carrier you choose" because you can't buy a GSM device and then later switch to a CDMA carrier (Sprint and Verizon have never allowed BYOD). Apple wants to be clear to the consumer so they simplify and tell you to go with the carrier you want instead of saying, well, yeah, depending on which carrier you initially used and which you want to switch with, you may, in some circumstances, be able to switch to some carriers (ATT, T Mob) but not others (Sprint and possibly Verizon).
This is the ideal, but carriers are certainly different beasts from the ideal. AT&T for example, does track what device the SIM is in and will alter your plan based on it. Specifically with iPhone vs Smartphone data plans, because their billing system is just that bizarre. I think they may have finally stopped treating the iPhone as a special case with the shared data plans they now push.
But in general, it is safe to assume that the carriers know what device a SIM is in. They even tell you what device it is actually in on their account management page after a few hours in the new device. The upside is that they currently don't do much based on that information other than maybe require a data plan.
The assumption here is that SIM is part of GSM, when it really isn't. You can implement GSM without using SIMs, you can implement CDMA with them. The decision to use them or not is dependent on timing, business decisions, and other factors.
LTE is indeed built up on top of the GSM branch of cellular technology, although each "generation" doesn't need to actually build on top of the last as Verizon shows. You need new transceivers for 3G vs 2G, and LTE vs 3G, so it doesn't matter a whole lot if your 2G network is CDMA and your 3G network is UTMS based unless you are trying to share a frequency band between the two. That made sense during the 3G era as you could support both in the same band, but LTE's fundamental design is different enough that it cannot share frequency bands with 2G/3G tech. And that is why there was the big flap over getting access to frequency bands in order to roll LTE out.
As part of the LTE transition, Verizon and Sprint both moved to SIMs. So every LTE device on their network uses SIMs to authenticate with their network. They even use the SIM to authenticate with the 2G/3G CDMA network. So the old assumption of BYOD with Verizon/Sprint no longer holds. However, there have been a lot of technical hurdles to jump still. Cellular chipsets need to be small, and there are a lot of CDMA/GSM/UMTS/HSPA/LTE bands and configurations to support. It has only been very recently that we've started seeing chipsets that are both capable of talking on all current bands with all current technologies, and they are still quite big in terms of die size. Big enough that Apple still doesn't use them in the iPhone.
Qualcomm had a couple true "World Phone" chips a couple years back, but nobody was really interested in them. AT&T/T-Mobile don't care about supporting Verizon, and Verizon only cared about international roaming. Europe is GSM-only, and China was still entering the smartphone era itself. So there just wasn't demand for them. Tablets may actually change that.
From what i understand, here in canada or maybe just in quebec we do not have to choose our provider. Under the image when you choose your setting it writen:
oh! and i just went to US shop and:
So i guess you can swap from one to an other when ever you want.
oh! and i just went to US shop and:
So i guess you can swap from one to an other when ever you want.
Agreed, iPads have been unlocked up until now even when there were different carrier SKUs, but reading this attached screenshot from Apple's site, I'm not so sure this time around...
It might be akin to buying an AT&T labeled iPhone to be used unlocked it becomes unlocked by using a different carrier's SIM or "dummy SIM" during its initial activation. The new iPads just might employ the same technique.
Attachments
They've had that disclaimer since the iPad 2. Granted, it was actually true in the iPad 2's case as the Verizon version was CDMA only.
Agreed, iPads have been unlocked up until now even when there were different carrier SKUs, but reading this attached screenshot from Apple's site, I'm not so sure this time around...
It might be akin to buying an AT&T labeled iPhone to be used unlocked it becomes unlocked by using a different carrier's SIM or "dummy SIM" during its initial activation. The new iPads just might employ the same technique.
yep - this is the confusing part for me, because this could just be to explain to the average user that the iPad doesn't switch between networks without physically modifying it (swapping out SIM)
Agreed, iPads have been unlocked up until now even when there were different carrier SKUs, but reading this attached screenshot from Apple's site, I'm not so sure this time around...
It might be akin to buying an AT&T labeled iPhone to be used unlocked— it becomes unlocked by using a different carrier's SIM or "dummy SIM" during its initial activation. The new iPads just might employ the same technique.
First part is standard Apple lingo & true... The iPad as shipped will only work with the carrier chosen by purchaser b/c of the installed SIM. Remove the SIM & replace with another carrier & it works to the extent it's compatible with the iPad. But since Apple does not determine how carrier SIM cards are distributed outside of the iPad it can't guarantee the iPad will work with other carriers. Simple legal disclaimer.
Second part though pretty much explains the iPad is carrier unlocked. Would be cool if Apple Stores did sell data SIM cards for carriers in the county the store was in. It would make the LTE version that much more useful since it can be a time eater getting one when traveling esp. If going to 2+ countries.
I have a VERIZON iPad Mini and while it is unlocked and it DOES work on AT&T (HSPA) and T-Mo (EDGE) as well a VZW the problem is you have first get a sim and then call AT&T or T-Mo to activate it. In other words you can't do it with the "built in" activation app. This does create a minor signup issue unless you already have a pre-activated SIM from another iPad device (phone sim did not work) or do it online.
I am assuming the new models will be the same, that the "built in" activation app will be carrier specific.
I am assuming the new models will be the same, that the "built in" activation app will be carrier specific.
Can you please post a screenshot or describe this built in "activation app"? Do you mean where the APN settings are? If so, all you'd have to do, theoretically, is to remember, or write down the APN settings and plug them in manually. This is basically what somebody was talking about when you go to the "About" menu and have the iPad update your carrier settings manually.
I've been keeping up with this thread and appreciate the information. I tell you what, I am a business customer with Apple, and I've already reserved my stuff to go pick up on Friday. Let me give my contact a call tomorrow and see if she knows anything ABSOLUTE about this.... she just might.
The "activation app" I am referring to is where you "sign up" for a monthly data plan on your device. On my VZW iPad mini it's SETTINGS / CELLULAR DATA / VIEW ACCOUNT. This is the "built in" app where I can create my VZW data account or renew my VZW data plan. The ATT iPad mini has the same feature (but for ATT).
You can't setup an ATT plan on a VZW iPad (vice versa as well) unless you do it "manually" online if you can find the link on ATT website. You need to put in the IMEI and SIM ICCID. If you remove a sim from an AT&T **active** iPad it works fine in the VZW model but you can't "renew" the plan (if you are month to month) unless you do it on the ATT website or by phone.
When I put in my AT&T SIM and click VIEW ACCOUNT it errors out. Same for my T-Mo SIM.
It has nothing to do with APN (that will download automatically) it has to do with creating/managing the DATA ACCOUNT.
The reps generally don't have a clue. Ask 10 reps, get 13 different answers. They still say the devices are locked.
This was true when the AT&T and Verizon iPads had different hardware models and presumably different firmware. The new iPad is supposedly just one model and can have the same firmware version on AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and Verizon iPads. Alas, we won't really know for sure until the new iPads are released and someone tests carrier cross compatibility.
It looks like I've found an answer to whether the iPad Air support T-Mobile's 1700MHz HSPA network: it does.
Originally, Apple's tech specs listings did not list 1700MHz as supported for HSPA. T-Mobile's executives, however, said that the iPad Air actually did, and that anything to the contrary was an error that would be corrected.
The tech specs section on the Apple Online Store now lists 1700/2100MHz as supported for HSPA: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-ipad/ipad-air
I checked the Archive.org of that page from 10/22, and it omits 1700/2100MHz (you have to View Source of this page to see the tech specs section): https://web.archive.org/web/20131022233607/http://store.apple.com/us/buy-ipad/ipad-air#
This means that Apple has updated the iPad tech specs lists to add 1700/2100MHz. In other words, T-Mobile was right.
Originally, Apple's tech specs listings did not list 1700MHz as supported for HSPA. T-Mobile's executives, however, said that the iPad Air actually did, and that anything to the contrary was an error that would be corrected.
The tech specs section on the Apple Online Store now lists 1700/2100MHz as supported for HSPA: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-ipad/ipad-air
I checked the Archive.org of that page from 10/22, and it omits 1700/2100MHz (you have to View Source of this page to see the tech specs section): https://web.archive.org/web/20131022233607/http://store.apple.com/us/buy-ipad/ipad-air#
This means that Apple has updated the iPad tech specs lists to add 1700/2100MHz. In other words, T-Mobile was right.
So is there still no clear and definitive answer on this? You'd think that Apple would want to explicitly state that you can switch carriers by simply switching SIM cards. Instead their website says the cellular iPads will only work with the carrier you choose.
I know we all think it is one model, but I'd feel better knowing for sure before I plunk down the $$. I plan to buy the T-Mobile version, but want to be able to switch to AT&T if needed.
Based on this statement:
I think any iPad to T-Mobile or AT&T would be easy. AT&T and T-Mobile don't make you jump through hoops just to get a SIM card. Heck, T-Mobile occasionally offers their SIM kits for $0.99 or free. The question mark here is Verizon and Sprint which are traditionally CDMA.
Speaking of that, T-Mobile has their SIM cards on sale for just 99 cents right now on their website. I just ordered one to have in case I get a cellular iPad Air on Friday & can't find a store with the T-Mobile model in stock. I may just get the AT&T model now anyway and have the option to switch SIMs between the two carriers if necessary.
A SIM is required and an essential part of GSM. According to Wikipedia "The use of SIM cards is mandatory in GSM devices."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module
I believe that the reason Apple states "The iPad with Wi-Fi + Cellular model you purchase will work with one of these wireless carriers: AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, or Verizon. While you dont have to activate service right away, you should choose your iPad according to the carrier you prefer." is due to some versions of the ipad being incompatible with Verizon and/or Sprint (due to the CDMA network). What other explanation is there for this statement?
They say this because the iPad only comes with the SIM for the carrier you choose.
That's the thing. According to Apple's website, there's only a universal version for GSM+CDMA. There could be no restriction at all, firmware restrictions based on IMEI/serial number or some other carrier imposed restriction. We don't really know for sure. This is why there's a lot of speculation regarding cross carrier compatibility.
Engadget Review quote: "If you're not sure of a specific operator's network settings, don't fret: Apple tells us that the Air will detect which carrier you're using and will download the proper settings for you."
Sounds promising.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/29/ipad-air-review/?ncid=rss_truncated
Sounds promising.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/29/ipad-air-review/?ncid=rss_truncated