Not in Australia. I just got a brand new 64GB iPad Pro 10.5 with Cellular last month (not refurbished) and that was cheaper than a new 64GB iPad Air 3 with only WiFi XD
Even refurbished models of the 10.5pro are significantly cheaper than the Air 3
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iPad Air vs. Microsoft's Surface Go: Which Is a Better Laptop Replacement?
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Not in Australia. I just got a brand new 64GB iPad Pro 10.5 with Cellular last month (not refurbished) and that was cheaper than a new 64GB iPad Air 3 with only WiFi XD
Even refurbished models of the 10.5pro are significantly cheaper than the Air 3
I have read a lot of arguments already some are good and some are not so good.
But honestly we can only have a clear answer to this question if we must first answer the question with complete certainty, WHAT IS A LAPTOP?
Until each of us has different opinion of what is a laptop, then this thread can go on forever.
Yes, iOS/iPad can do this and do that, but does it mean it's already a laptop? It maybe able to to do things that traditional laptop does but the question can it be consider a laptop because of those functionality?
Yes a motorcycle can bring you from point A to point B like a car but it does not mean its already a car. A motorcycle can be very efficient in navigating tight spaces in a heavy traffic situation and saves a lot of gas but it is and will never replace a car. A motorcycle provides solution for a certain set of problems and this overlaps with the same problem that the car is providing a solution for but it does not mean the motorcycle can replace the car because there are some real world problems that the motorcycle has no solution for.
Going back to the question, WHAT IS A LAPTOP?
Does it need to have a physical keyboard and pointing device to be called a laptop?
What kind of functionality is required form its operating system to be called a laptop?
What real world problem it needs to solve to be called a laptop?
And there is the question of what does the article mean for "REPLACEMENT"?
Does it mean that the tablet will totally render the laptop devices obsolete that it will totally remove the laptop from the market?
Or does it mean that it will just move some user from laptop to tablet since their computing needs can be solve by using a much mobile computing device, the tablet.
But honestly we can only have a clear answer to this question if we must first answer the question with complete certainty, WHAT IS A LAPTOP?
Until each of us has different opinion of what is a laptop, then this thread can go on forever.
Yes, iOS/iPad can do this and do that, but does it mean it's already a laptop? It maybe able to to do things that traditional laptop does but the question can it be consider a laptop because of those functionality?
Yes a motorcycle can bring you from point A to point B like a car but it does not mean its already a car. A motorcycle can be very efficient in navigating tight spaces in a heavy traffic situation and saves a lot of gas but it is and will never replace a car. A motorcycle provides solution for a certain set of problems and this overlaps with the same problem that the car is providing a solution for but it does not mean the motorcycle can replace the car because there are some real world problems that the motorcycle has no solution for.
Going back to the question, WHAT IS A LAPTOP?
Does it need to have a physical keyboard and pointing device to be called a laptop?
What kind of functionality is required form its operating system to be called a laptop?
What real world problem it needs to solve to be called a laptop?
And there is the question of what does the article mean for "REPLACEMENT"?
Does it mean that the tablet will totally render the laptop devices obsolete that it will totally remove the laptop from the market?
Or does it mean that it will just move some user from laptop to tablet since their computing needs can be solve by using a much mobile computing device, the tablet.
I have the 11 inch iPad Pro and Pencil. While it is still running iOS/iPadOS, it is never going to replace my MacBook Pro because of the software I own and need to run. Simple as that.
It may, however, be the perfect 'lone' product for a student who needs to do word processing, note taking, editing photo/video projects and so on.
Even iPadOS doesn't solve the file system or lack thereof and it certainly isn't going to be natively running Mac apps anytime soon.
It may, however, be the perfect 'lone' product for a student who needs to do word processing, note taking, editing photo/video projects and so on.
Even iPadOS doesn't solve the file system or lack thereof and it certainly isn't going to be natively running Mac apps anytime soon.
That assumes the question being answered is a meaningful one.
I still maintain that all these laptop vs iPad threads are simply clickbait threads which do not address the main issue at hand.
As has stated numerous times - it would simply be more productive to list out what the iPad can be used for, and let each individual customer decide for himself.
If I am willing to accustom myself to the iPad way of getting things done, idiosyncrasies and all, as well as learn more shortcuts, what’s wrong with that?
The article infers that you should be able to do the same things on an Intel Core i5 chip using an Appl A12 or Intel Pentium chip and that simply is not the case.
For most (not all) mobile computing needs, an Apple A12, Intel Pentium or Snapdragon 850 chip is sufficient. Again I say most, not everything.
This class of device is an alternative to and not a replacement for a laptop running an Intel Core or similar processor. Yet the reviewers who write these reviews always seem indignant that they don't have the same computing power as an Intel Core.
If you need Intel Core computer power then get a laptop with an Intel Core and lug the heatsink and fan around all day. But if you don't need it, then you may want to explore these laptop alternatives.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
If you truly want the answers to these questions it's nice to hear answers from the horse's mouth, as it were. Steve Jobs addresses this and more in this interview. In 2010, he saw where computing was going, and explains how and why Apple has taken this road. It's a bit of a long watch, but I found it amazing to hear him speak of a future he'd never see (he died a year later) so accurately.
I posted an excerpt of this interview in an earlier post, if you want the abridged version.
Enjoy!
I had an iPad Pro and a Surface Pro.
Apple has gotten a lot of things right when it comes with tablets; iOS as a whole is designed for touchscreen use. As a whole all their tablet apps are optimized for the iPad. That is something that cannot be beat easily. At the same time because everything is written for the iPad, we don't actually have the same powerful desktop applications some of us want. The latter is where the Surface Pro shines; you have a very capable portable that runs all the traditional applications.
A lot of it is about user experience. In reviews, people spend very little time with these computers, the overall experience might seem better on the iPad. Over time of 2-3 years of using both an iPad Pro and a Surface Pro, the Surface Pro is way more useful and a lot more powerful. Yes I wish the touchscreen implementations very improved on all the apps, but you can't expect every developer to update their traditional applications to support a touchscreen.
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A lot of traditional applications require a precision pointing device, and your finger is a very crude one. That's why all the iOS applications have big buttons, toggles, boxes, etc. You don't see a lot of nested menus that traditional applications have. Although there are a numerous tablet applications for Windows now, the majority of productivity applications require a mouse or some kind. Without the trackpad it would be quite difficult to use these applications.
Apple has gotten a lot of things right when it comes with tablets; iOS as a whole is designed for touchscreen use. As a whole all their tablet apps are optimized for the iPad. That is something that cannot be beat easily. At the same time because everything is written for the iPad, we don't actually have the same powerful desktop applications some of us want. The latter is where the Surface Pro shines; you have a very capable portable that runs all the traditional applications.
A lot of it is about user experience. In reviews, people spend very little time with these computers, the overall experience might seem better on the iPad. Over time of 2-3 years of using both an iPad Pro and a Surface Pro, the Surface Pro is way more useful and a lot more powerful. Yes I wish the touchscreen implementations very improved on all the apps, but you can't expect every developer to update their traditional applications to support a touchscreen.
[doublepost=1563288115][/doublepost]
A lot of traditional applications require a precision pointing device, and your finger is a very crude one. That's why all the iOS applications have big buttons, toggles, boxes, etc. You don't see a lot of nested menus that traditional applications have. Although there are a numerous tablet applications for Windows now, the majority of productivity applications require a mouse or some kind. Without the trackpad it would be quite difficult to use these applications.
I more or less agree with you. The iPad should be evaluated for what it is: an insanely great tablet. It should not be evaluated as a laptop. It would be like evaluating a Prius against an F150. That said, you can get a lot done with a great tablet. It is not just a toy, the iPad can be an excellent productivity device, and I think iPadOS will take things to another level. You just need to use a tablet like a tablet. Take advantage of the touch interface, the pencil, and the incredible apps, and save the keyboard/mouse intensive activities for your Mac. I think many people will be pleasantly surprised how the distribution of usage shifts to the tablet over time. For me, it it about 75% iPad and 25% Mac.......with iPad OS, it will probably move more toward iPad. On the other hand, MacOS Catalina features like sidecar and iPad app compatibility might bring even more synergy to the two devices.....so, I might get more out of both devices. Time will tell.
Another person who didn't get the intent of my original post. Getting tired of having to explain myself over and over again. I never said why the Surface uses a trackpad in the first place. If you reread my posts, i never question that.
As a parent the worst thing you can do for your child is buy him/her an iPad unless you want him to grow up flipping burgers. iPads can't even program Arduino micro controllers directly which is being taught in elementary school. Outside of consumption use iPads have too many limitations even with upcoming iPadOS.
Wow, lots of hyperbole here. If you look at what k-12 students do for home work etc.., an iPad is a perfectly usable device. This stuff about iPads are only for consumption has been proven over and over to be untrue. You can easily write reports on an iPad. You can create presentations. You can edit photos and videos for class projects. You can take notes. Read books. Make sketches. Annotate and markup handouts and documents. The list goes on and on. iPadOS will add more capability.
I had 3 kids go through high school, and two are done with college and one is starting university in the fall. For high school, I would have no problem having them take an iPad (Standard or Air: $250 - $500) to school with a pencil. They could keep a BT keyboard at home for heavy typing. In the rare occasion they need a traditional computer, they could use our family desktop Mac. This would be a much better arrangement than schlepping around a $1,500 MacBook to school.
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You’re absolutely right here, but don’t bother. @mi7chy just spouts nonsense throughout the forums to try and get a rise out of people. It’s a waste of time for him/her and others as it never adds any value to the conversation.
Where does it imply anything resembling that? Are you talking about a completely different article?
Except it's not. ChromeOS devices have taken over K12 and below because Apple has failed to address the limitations of iOS and the high cost of Macbooks that also lack touch and pen inputs. Some can even run Linux and run Arduino IDE to program Arduino MCUs directly.
You can do that on a manual typewriter so not convincing.
Your pricing research is also outdated since 2019 Macbook Air is $999 for student and still a much better choice through university and career than the toy consumption iPad that's not even adequate for elementary school.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019...acbook-pro-updated-for-back-to-school-season/
If you think an iPad is not adequate for elementary school work, then you are truly just a troll.....no need to engage with you. There are people all over this forum using an iPad to do substantial work, so you lack credibility.....not reading anymore of this rubbish.
By which you mean: because schools are looking primarily at price, and don’t see the bigger picture that they’re giving Google the data of millions of people for free (and training kids to keep using their apps as they grow up).
(Yes, I’m sure someone will point out that education is exempt from their data gathering. That’s adorable.)
If the iPad doesn’t do what you think it should do for your children and you think other products are better for them, buy the other products.
If they are teaching certain things in school, I guess they’ll have access to those things at school, it doesn’t mean that the iPad is just a toy, though. It’s a very capable tablet in lots of different ways. As I say, if it doesn’t do the tasks you want it to do, it isn’t the right product for you. If there are so many other viable options for you, I don’t see why you are so upset about it.
You literally say:
(Emphasis mine)
So I explained why they have a trackpad for their tablet product. If you made your intent in a different post, I apologize I did not see it. I simply read your reply and wanted to offer my opinions on why Microsoft is keeping a trackpad with the tablet product.
And then there are those who don't see the picture that is bigger than THAT... and that is people's data is freely available to Google, Facebook, and every other company even if that person has never used Google services or created a Facebook account. There is no increased privacy by avoiding Google services, but it is popular to criticize Google so....
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Icaras seems to be suggesting that the trackpad should fill up the entire horizontal space.
Seems to be that would make usability worse (increased chance of inadvertent taps; very skewed ratio compared to screen) while not adding much value.
Sorry, no apologies necessary. I should apologize and clarify. It just occurs to me that since a keyboard/trackpad attachment for a tablet uses no batteries, it sort of bewilders me why the design configuration needs to look exactly like that of a laptop. Just seems like a lot of unused space on both sides of the trackpad. I guess you could argue that they are used for wrist rests considering the softer material, but having the trackpad below the keyboard has always been an awkward setup in my opinion.
No, I am not suggesting that all. Quite the opposite. I feel that the sides of the trackpad are a lot of unused space because there are no batteries used. I don't presume to know what better design to use for a tablet attachment. Maybe a fold out trackpad on the side (or bottom, minus the sides)? Maybe eliminate the trackpad altogether and have 3d gesture motion detection to mimic that of a trackpad below the keyboard? I really don't know. I'm just spitballing here and just questioning what better use could be done to save space rather than do a cut and paste job of a laptop design.
Because it's familiar and also a simple shape.
But why? It's really comfortable to rest your palms on the sides of the trackpad. You use your fingers to type as well as to move the pointer, while not having to move your arms and wrists around much at all.
It's not as ergonomic as something with a taller profile, but that isn't really in the cards for a device like this.
I don't see the point of Kinect-style motion detection when… it's already a touch screen!
The trackpad exists to be a more comfortable (less arm/wrist strain), laptop-like experience. It's like a laptop by design, regardless of not having batteries underneath (nor a logic board, for that matter).
