iPad mini iPad miniR vs iPad Air on blues + reds

[coldsweat]

The person doing the color grading for Star Trek had a monitor that displayed colors much closer to the iPad 4 than the Mini. So the iPad 4 displayed colors as they were designed to be.

It's fine to disagree with that person's color grading choices, though.

The Colourist on Star Trek would have actually used a calibrated monitor that would have been perfectly flat colour-wise (closer to the mini). If their monitor was closer to the air, the colours in star trek would seem overly flat & washed out in cinemas, HDTV's etc.

 

[Jensend]

The Colourist on Star Trek would have actually used a calibrated monitor that would have been perfectly flat colour-wise (closer to the mini). If their monitor was closer to the air, the colours in star trek would seem overly flat & washed out in cinemas, HDTV's etc.

All digital video files that are for consumer use are designed around the sRGB standard. The Air is much closer to that standard than the mini. Do you dispute this?
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_11.jpg
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_16.html
"What makes the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 and iPad Air really shine are their very accurate colors, image contrast, and picture quality. They are most likely better and more accurate than any display you own (unless it’s a calibrated professional display). In fact, with some minor calibration tweaks they both would qualify as studio reference monitors. "

 

[voronoi]

The Colourist on Star Trek would have actually used a calibrated monitor that would have been perfectly flat colour-wise (closer to the mini). If their monitor was closer to the air, the colours in star trek would seem overly flat & washed out in cinemas, HDTV's etc.

The Air should look closer to perfectly flat than the mini. It's actually very close to the monitors hooked up to my university's graphics computers (which are calibrated every few weeks). Anand has stated that it's more accurate than any other tablet he's tested.

I'd wager that the over saturation that some complain about on the Air is probably from the saturation of the image itself, rather than the display.

 

[iLukeJoseph]

All digital video files that are for consumer use are designed around the sRGB standard. The Air is much closer to that standard than the mini. Do you dispute this?
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_11.jpg
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_16.html
"What makes the Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 and iPad Air really shine are their very accurate colors, image contrast, and picture quality. They are most likely better and more accurate than any display you own (unless it’s a calibrated professional display). In fact, with some minor calibration tweaks they both would qualify as studio reference monitors. "

I dispute EVERYTHING from displaymate. They really are considered a joke in the AVS community. I do enjoy Anand's reviews and he does use real software Calman. But I don't see where he says what meter he uses (very important).

Also "digital video files", which I will assume you mean HD video? Are not calibrated to sRGB. They are calibrated to Rec. 709. sRGB and Rec. 709 share the same gamut, but have have a different gamma curve.

 

[DannyBres]

This is stupid. I have an iPad 3 and a rMini coming today and I am almost certain that if I never compare them and look for flaws then the rMini will be greats for its entire life.

I cannot see me thinking arghh the reds are not red enough in a years time.

 

[Jensend]

I dispute EVERYTHING from displaymate. They really are considered a joke in the AVS community. I do enjoy Anand's reviews and he does use real software Calman. But I don't see where he says what meter he uses (very important).

Also "digital video files", which I will assume you mean HD video? Are not calibrated to sRGB. They are calibrated to Rec. 709. sRGB and Rec. 709 share the same gamut, but have have a different gamma curve.

OK, replace everything I said about displaymate with anand. They came to the same conclusions, so it doesn't matter. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6429/ipad-mini-review/4
Check out the CIE Charts and click between ipad 3 and ipad mini. (The iPad 3 actually tests a bit better than the Air in color accuracy.)

By digital video, I mean blu-ray, DVD, Netflix, iTunes store, etc.
Are they not meant for a gamma of 2.2?

Edit: OK, it looks like the Rec 709 recommends a gamma of 2.35? It's all complicated. Anyway, the full size iPad is still much closer than the mini to the recommended values for video.

 

[doxielover]

Can someone please take a few screenshots of people, faces to see skin tones please?

 

[locust76]

Check your facts, Anand in his review of the Air specifically mentions that the screen is an improvement over the previous generations in all respects!

He says that, but the actual tests show that the Air's display is better than other tested tablets in only 2 of 5 categories, and even Anand tested the iPad 4 to have better gamut coverage with reference to sRGB, as the Air oversaturates just a tad.

My point remains: comparing the rMini to the Air is futile, as the Air is oversaturated by a small degree. Comparing the rMini to the iPad 3 or 4 is better, as they have more accurate displays (99-100% sRGB, compared to 108% with the Air).

 

[BygSii]

With all these pictures that I'm seeing, where's the comparison between the White iPad Mini with Retina screen to an IPad Air. For all we know, the white ones screen could be manufactured by Sharp while the Space Grays screen is confirmed to have been manufactured by LG. LG likes leaning towards more natural colors with there products. If no one compares the white iPad Mini with Retina, I'll have to when I get mine next week.

 

[locust76]

the air is much closer to that standard than the old mini.

ftfy.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Can someone please take a few screenshots of people, faces to see skin tones please?

Just change your wallpaper and your problem will be solved

 

[SirHaakon]

This is stupid. I have an iPad 3 and a rMini coming today and I am almost certain that if I never compare them and look for flaws then the rMini will be greats for its entire life.

I don't have an Air, but I have an iPhone 5, and I noticed the difference on the rMini immediately. Not even side by side, just all by itself. It looks like the magentas are at 70% saturation. It actually almost looks as if the mini has been given the wrong color profile or something. It's really bad. That's a shame because the pixel density is gorgeous, and far superior to the Air (I played with both in the store for a good 3 hours while their payment system was completely down today and I was essentially stuck there). It's pretty easy to see distracting pixels on the Air, and the form factor is too big for my taste (though the thickness and weight is vastly improved over the 4).

I'm hoping I just got a dud, but after reading so many people express they are experiencing the same thing I'm wondering if that's how they all are. If that's the case, the rMini leaves a lot to be desired and I might go another year without a tablet until Apple finally makes one I enjoy using. It might sound a bit much, but $600+ is an awful lot to spend on something that's just "okay."

 

[Jensend]

ftfy.

The old and retina minis have essentially the same gamut.
retina iPad mini:
http://d37ddz0i31n1wa.cloudfront.ne...439e/Screen_Shot_2013-11-13_at_2.54.36_PM.png
first gen mini:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/tablets/apple/ipadmini/gamut.png

 

[locust76]

The old and retina minis have essentially the same gamut.
retina iPad mini:
http://d37ddz0i31n1wa.cloudfront.ne...439e/Screen_Shot_2013-11-13_at_2.54.36_PM.png
first gen mini:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/tablets/apple/ipadmini/gamut.png

Did you measure that? I have yet to find an actual analysis of the rMini screen anywhere beyond "it looks sharp"

 

[DSTOFEL]

With all these pictures that I'm seeing, where's the comparison between the White iPad Mini with Retina screen to an IPad Air. For all we know, the white ones screen could be manufactured by Sharp while the Space Grays screen is confirmed to have been manufactured by LG. LG likes leaning towards more natural colors with there products. If no one compares the white iPad Mini with Retina, I'll have to when I get mine next week.

In my post (above), the comparison was done with a white MiniR, black Mini-Original and iPad Air. Laying them side by side and viewing multiple web pages, photos and videos, the MiniR and Mini-O are indistinguishable from a reproduction of color perspective. They both appear muted and lifeless. The colors on the Air pop and are rich and vivid by comparison.

The original Mini had a couple of well documented display problems; low resolution and color (ie low percent of color gamut). Apple appears to have only addressed 1/2 of the problem with the Mini's display.

 

[Appl3FTW]

i've been buying idevices for years and one thing i notice is that if you nitpick on things you will ALWAYS find something wrong which in fact there's nothing to worry about. the screen is perfectly fine.. now i learned from previous generations that "warmer" tints gives out far better color hues. i learned this from my 4 to 4S, 5 to 5S and mini to rMini. At the end of the day, are you really going to use all of them side by side and CRY about how one is "washed out"?

sheesh, enjoy life

 

[Vanilla35]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that using the iPad Air as a reference point is a bit silly. According to Displaymate, the iPad Air oversaturates colors a bit, as it reproduces 108% of the sRGB color gamut. Especially oversaturated are the blues.

So comparing a panel that reproduces anything less than 108% of the sRGB color gamut would appear washed out in comparison.

The only way to be sure of what's going on is to wait for an official, professional analysis of the display (from Anand, Displaymate, etc...). So far, everybody (except for those here in this particular forum) are praising the hell out of the rMini display (including it's vibrance).

Maybe the rMini produces 95-99% of sRGB, but the overblown saturation of the Air makes it look less impressive in comparison? I'd like to see rMini vs iPad 3 or 4, as those displays covered the sRGB gamut to 99%, and were technically better and more accurate displays than the one found in the Air.

Unfortunately the guy is right.

http://tablets.reviewed.com/content/ipad-mini-with-retina-display-tablet-review/the-science

The mini produces about the same colors as the previous gen did. The only real difference is that it's an IGZO panel and it has higher PPI. It's not as close as 90% compared to 108%. It's more like 70% to 108%. Also if it were as close as you say there wouldn't be such a large number of people noticing this, even after picking it up and using it for the first time.

My main gripe is just how muted the magentas look in this. I could deal with overall muted colors I guess..but it gives a bit towards the cyan side which inherently mutes magentas specifically, even more so.

Edit: According to DisplayMate's comparison of the Original Mini's display:

The Retina Mini's display is about the same:

Which means it has about 60% color gamut. Wow


.

 

[jterp7]

With all these pictures that I'm seeing, where's the comparison between the White iPad Mini with Retina screen to an IPad Air. For all we know, the white ones screen could be manufactured by Sharp while the Space Grays screen is confirmed to have been manufactured by LG. LG likes leaning towards more natural colors with there products. If no one compares the white iPad Mini with Retina, I'll have to when I get mine next week.

i had a 16gb rMini white and compared it to be 64gb ipad3. My ipad 3 was always slightly cool to begin with so the difference was immediate to me. The Air i have now is still slightly yellow, but the reds and blues are correctly vibrant as they should be. Side by side my air is definitely yellow vs the ipad 3, but its much much lighter

 

[DSTOFEL]

Unfortunately the guy is right.

http://tablets.reviewed.com/content/ipad-mini-with-retina-display-tablet-review/the-science

The mini produces about the same colors as the previous gen did. The only real difference is that it's an IGZO panel and it has higher PPI. It's not as close as 90% compared to 108%. It's more like 70% to 108%. Also if it were as close as you say there wouldn't be such a large number of people noticing this, even after picking it up and using it for the first time.

My main gripe is just how muted the magentas look in this. I could deal with overall muted colors I guess..but it gives a bit towards the cyan side which inherently mutes magentas specifically, even more so.

Edit: According to DisplayMate's comparison of the Original Mini's display:

Image

The Retina Mini's display is about the same:

Image



Which means it has about 60% color gamut. Wow


.

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The picture below shows this issue pretty well I think. Note the following:

- The iPad Air is on the left
- The two pictures on the right are the Mini-R and Mini-Original.

I'm betting most (if not all) will not be able to distinguish which is the Mini-R and which is the Mini-O. To my eye, the color's of the Mini-R and Mini-O are identical (muted/lifeless). You don't need to compare side by side with the rich/vivid colors of the Air to see the difference either. I've been living with the Mini-O for a year now and the muted colors are evident every time I use it.

Note: The flowers are actually purple….not blue (as displayed on the mini's). BTW….the Air displays the same colors as my 15 MBP Retina. The mini's (both) colors are "off".

 

[Dlanod]

Sadly this is a deal breaker for me. I was expecting a screen like the iPhone 5s and certainly much improved colours from the original Mini. This and image retention. I suspect Mini 3 will follow as quietly and sooner than next Autumn.

 

[Aetherhole]

The rMini color issue is a deal breaker for me. I was originally planning on keeping the rMini along with the Air, but after using the Air and now with this, I will be return the rMini. But, this is just MY personal preference and choice.

That said, why is everyone trying to compare pictures taken from other people? I hope you realize that 99.9% of us (okay maybe an exaggeration) are viewing these comparison photos from an un-calibrated monitor? The monitor you are viewing these pictures from might be overly saturated, thus compensating for the rMini's less saturated photo making it look "better". In all actuality, the monitors we are viewing from are likely MUCH worse than the rMini's. It's all pretty subjective in photo threads like these because unless you are viewing on a properly calibrated monitor, neither screen in the photo is going to be accurate.

To me, from what I've observed in-person, the iPad Air is "more" accurate (not perfectly accurate). The color temperature is closer to 7000k as opposed to the industry standard of 6500k, but it's still "more accurate". I've compared my iPad Air to my ISF-calibrated Pioneer Kuro and the image is much closer to that than the rMini. Sure the higher pixel density is a very welcome addition to the rMini, but it's not all about pixel density. And this is coming from a person who can see pixel structure still on devices like the rMini, iPhone 4-5s, and the Nexus 7.

Again, not every one has the same preference and, truth be told, not everyone wants/likes a properly calibrated display, so preferences are going to run a huge gamut (much bigger than the rMini's color gamut )

 

[Vanilla35]

That's exactly what I'm seeing. The picture below shows this issue pretty well I think. Note the following:

- The iPad Air is on the left
- The two pictures on the right are the Mini-R and Mini-Original.

I'm betting most (if not all) will not be able to distinguish which is the Mini-R and which is the Mini-O. To my eye, the color's of the Mini-R and Mini-O are identical (muted/lifeless). You don't need to compare side by side with the rich/vivid colors of the Air to see the difference either. I've been living with the Mini-O for a year now and the muted colors are evident every time I use it.

Note: The flowers are actually purple….not blue (as displayed on the mini's). BTW….the Air displays the same colors as my 15 MBP Retina. The mini's (both) colors are "off".


Image

Just curious which one of the two on the right is the rMini? I'm hoping it's the top one. That one appears to have be 10-15% more saturated colors than the one below it hah (I'm going to be getting the rMini no matter what - because I don't want the huge iPad)

But as I look at my own original post, the graph showing the iPad Mini 1st gen. and the iPad 2 have almost the exact same gamut. So the difference from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3 was huge because of both the doubling in pixels, but also the much more colorful, and accurate color gamut. In the iPad Mini retina, they only did the 1st of those two. So it still has the overall color reproduction of the iPad 2, and thus looks muted overall

 

[DSTOFEL]

Just curious which one of the two on the right is the rMini? I'm hoping it's the top one. That one appears to have be 10-15% more saturated colors than the one below it hah (I'm going to be getting the rMini no matter what - because I don't want the huge iPad)

But as I look at my own original post, the graph showing the iPad Mini 1st gen. and the iPad 2 have almost the exact same gamut. So the difference from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3 was huge because of both the doubling in pixels, but also the much more colorful, and accurate color gamut. In the iPad Mini retina, they only did the 1st of those two. So it still has the overall color reproduction of the iPad 2, and thus looks muted overall

Sadly, the mini-R is the bottom right! I did notice my Mini-O has ever so slightly more saturation. I'm like you in that the Ipad Air is too big for my needs (The Air I used for the comparison is my wife's). I'll likely hold onto my Mini-O (32GB cellular) for another cycle and see if they pump up the color on the Mini-R.

 

[Vanilla35]

Sadly, the mini-R is the bottom right! I did notice my Mini-O has ever so slightly more saturation. I'm like you in that the Ipad Air is too big for my needs (The Air I used for the comparison is my wife's). I'll likely hold onto my Mini-O (32GB cellular) for another cycle and see if they pump up the color on the Mini-R.

Damn oh well, it's just my picky side that's disappointed. I'll live haha. Good deal for you, I'll be picking it up for a better gaming experience and book reading anyway. Really disappointed by the colors though, as I may have even kept this thing for 3-4 years if it had great colors too. But nope, apple refuses to make the perfect device, so that I have to keep buying new ones

 

[Gudi]

After wanting a retina ipad mini when the air was released and getting an air to try it, now I finally have both devices. I can honestly say that the screen color reproduction is enough to break the deal for me on the mini. I love the form factor, but compared to the air, the screen doesn't speak to me. The air's screen literally pops the content out in front of you. On the mini, it's as if they added another pane of filtered glass between you and the content.

It's much worse than that. Not only are the colors wrong and undersaturated, all the gradients are gone. Every shade of red in the Music icon is turned into the same kind of orange. Millions of colors lost.

Add that to the insult that is iOS 7 itself and I'm going to cancel my order now. What a sad day. The retina mini was such a promising form factor. I don't want an Air. I want a mini with a proper screen.

Have to wait another year.