All iPads iPad pro hybrid...good idea?

Anti-Lucifer

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 9, 2012
775
2
Hi,

What do you guys think about a hybrid iPad like the surface pro/pro 2?

What I mean is not exactly like the surface pro 2 but similar concepts. Attached the keyboard/or some sort of locking dock which basically shuts off the iPad's internals ONLY allowing the (keyboard)/docking system to utilize it's internal components to DRIVE the iPad display ONLY.

The iPad has 2048x1536 - why not use it as a display screen only? I mean you can go the MBA 11" route but then you lose the ability to use as a tablet.

The surface pro 2 isn't a great laptop, nor is it a great tablet. What if you just used the iPad's retina as the display but you know have attachment to the iPad which then turns on OS X to drive just the retina display? OF course you would have to revise the iPad to do this both hardware and software but hey, you get best of both worlds in one unit. I mean that's what the surface pro attempts to do but can't do successfully, right?

One thing awesome about the surface tablets is the magnetic keyboard latch system it's very strong. Imagine all the desktop components inside the keyboard component and simply attach the iPad and voila, instant laptop.
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
2,462
2,520
Upstate, NY
Nope, I just don't see the value in hybrids, convertibles, or any other do it all device. That's because in most cases, the device in question isn't really great at either task. It's acceptable but not great at both.

My thing is this: let tablets just be tablets and be the best tablets they can be. Let laptops and desktops be the best they can be. Everyone can then device what they need and go from there.
 

old-wiz

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2008
8,318
221
West Suburban Boston Ma
And how many million Surface Pros has IBM sold recently?

I'd much rather have something that is very good at one thing rather than something that is just fair at more than one thing.
 

Dulcimer

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
756
166
Like the others have said, hybrids aren't particularly great at being either a laptop or a tablet. However, I hope that Apple will start to utilize the iPad's bigger screen to its full potential, which iOS is preventing it from doing so.

However, my guess is that the iPhone will still be iOS's muse, and the iPad will continue to suffer from that.
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
2,462
2,520
Upstate, NY
Like the others have said, hybrids aren't particularly great at being either a laptop or a tablet. However, I hope that Apple will start to utilize the iPad's bigger screen to its full potential, which iOS is preventing it from doing so.

However, my guess is that the iPhone will still be iOS's muse, and the iPad will continue to suffer from that.
Good point about those damned phones causing iOS grief! Hate dem things! :D
 

bpbatch

macrumors member
Dec 24, 2010
75
1
••this post has been deleted by the author***
 
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As usual, terrible idea while Apple doesn't do it. But then, if Apple does do it, it will be "shut up and take my money", "best iPad ever", "how did we ever get by without this?" and so on.

See: "who wants video on an iPod?" (while Apple wasn't offering an iPod with video) or "who needs an iSight camera in an iPad?" (after iPad 1 launched with no such camera) or "1080p is just a gimmick" (while AppleTV clung to 720p), or "an iPad smaller than <full-size iPad> makes no sense" (until Apple launched iPad mini), and on and on.

There were passionate arguments about 3.5" being the perfect-sized iPhone screen… that Apple would never fragment screen resolution or aspect ratio like Android… and on and on, right up until Apple rolled out the 4" screen with an alternate aspect ratio. Then it was "shut up and take my money", "best iPhone ever" and on and on.

It's always the same. If "we" don't think Apple will go somewhere that someone else has gone or is going, that somewhere else is stupid, useless, "I" see no purpose for me so "you" can't either, etc.

If "we" think Apple might be going there soon, we'll hedge our passionate bashing against it just in case Apple does go there. For example, "we" used to bash >4" phone screens with great passion but now that the rumors are piling up that Apple might be going there, there's much more hedging of such comments, often under "wait & see" and similar.

If Apple does go there, it's "shut up and take my money", "best ever", etc. Then, about 2 years later, "we" remember Apple as inventing whatever it is and argue that others didn't invent it even if we are shown evidence to the contrary. If the evidence is unable to be refuted logically or by the masses attacking it, we'll just call the poster of the evidence a troll or other such names or try to change the subject to something that can be argued as an Apple win (ex: who's the biggest company in the world? or who makes the most profit on smart phones? etc)

To topic: in my business, I see a fair amount of people building their own hardware hybrid by pairing iPads with Logitech or similar keyboards. On the software hybrid side, I see a fair amount of people using various apps to run virtual (desktop) OS or applications on their iPads too. While not for everyone, there is probably a good-sized segment that would be interested Apple's implementation of a hybrid iPad Pro: "shut up and take my money";)
 

kristalsoldier

macrumors 6502
Aug 10, 2013
382
108
Hi,

What do you guys think about a hybrid iPad like the surface pro/pro 2?

What I mean is not exactly like the surface pro 2 but similar concepts. Attached the keyboard/or some sort of locking dock which basically shuts off the iPad's internals ONLY allowing the (keyboard)/docking system to utilize it's internal components to DRIVE the iPad display ONLY.

The iPad has 2048x1536 - why not use it as a display screen only? I mean you can go the MBA 11" route but then you lose the ability to use as a tablet.

The surface pro 2 isn't a great laptop, nor is it a great tablet. What if you just used the iPad's retina as the display but you know have attachment to the iPad which then turns on OS X to drive just the retina display? OF course you would have to revise the iPad to do this both hardware and software but hey, you get best of both worlds in one unit. I mean that's what the surface pro attempts to do but can't do successfully, right?

One thing awesome about the surface tablets is the magnetic keyboard latch system it's very strong. Imagine all the desktop components inside the keyboard component and simply attach the iPad and voila, instant laptop.
Have you ever used the Surface Pro 2?
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
13,064
5,084
For me, the main problem with slapping a keyboard on an iPad is that you end up with a smallish screen with a cramped keyboard -- it's just a netbook that can convert to a tablet. Well, I never wanted to work on a netbook, and I still don't. I currently use a 13-inch MacAir, which feels like the limit as to how small I'm willing to go with a notebook. I've never seriously tried to work on the 11-inch MacAir, but to even tempt me to try one, a tablet/notebook hybrid would have to be at least that size.

Yes, there are many products Apple said they'll never make but they later did. But the netbook is one product where they stuck to their guns -- they said they would never make one, and they still haven't. I do think Apple will eventually make a tablet/laptop hybrid, but I'd be surprised if it came with a smaller than 11-inch screen. And they won't do it until a 11-inch tablet can be made that weighs about the same as the Air does now.
 

goobot

macrumors 603
Jun 26, 2009
5,545
1,898
long island NY
Nope, I just don't see the value in hybrids, convertibles, or any other do it all device. That's because in most cases, the device in question isn't really great at either task. It's acceptable but not great at both.

My thing is this: let tablets just be tablets and be the best tablets they can be. Let laptops and desktops be the best they can be. Everyone can then device what they need and go from there.
Correct me if I'm wrong but op said that the keyboard part would have normal computer stuff in it making it a full computer when docked which would make it do its job successfully in both modes, no?
 

Ledgem

macrumors 68000
Jan 18, 2008
1,748
502
Hawaii, USA
The surface pro 2 isn't a great laptop, nor is it a great tablet. What if you just used the iPad's retina as the display but you know have attachment to the iPad which then turns on OS X to drive just the retina display?
The iPad functions as an iPad, but when you attach it to something then it basically becomes an OS X laptop? If the software were handled properly then it might not be a bad idea, but it still sounds a bit clunky. Apple has poo-poo'd the Surface because it's not as straight-forward a device as the iPad, and having an iPad that can act as both an iPad and as a standard computer (when plugged in to the right accessories) adds on a similar layer of complexity.

I like it the idea, though. I really like the idea of the Surface in general. I use my iPad in a professional setting, and there are some limitations that slow me down. A Surface-like iPad would make many tasks a bit easier and faster to perform. I've considered getting a Surface, but the integration between iPad, iPhone, and Mac is too good to pass up. I'm hopeful that Apple will eventually take a step or two in that direction, but a lot of it goes against their design philosophy.
 

rowspaxe

macrumors 68020
Jan 29, 2010
2,081
875
The surface is an awesome device, but an osx ios hybrid could be so much better--if apple can find a pen solution. A hybrid pen device is such a natural for students--its just a matter of time before someone pairs a the right product with the right price point.
 

kristalsoldier

macrumors 6502
Aug 10, 2013
382
108
I agree that the Surface is an excellent device. I use the Surface 2 (not the Pro 2) virtually as a replacement of my laptop and surprisingly I have not had any problems. The caveat being that I don't use too many apps - neither on my Surface, nor on my iPad Air. As I am not very familiar with Macs or with the Apple eco-system as such (well, aside from what I need to know to use the Air), I don't know how a Surface-like device in the Apple ecosystem would work, but I suspect, it would be excellent - especially given Apple's remarkable eye for design and detail.
 

iSee

macrumors 68040
Oct 25, 2004
3,523
253
No, kid, the question was whether the iPad hybrid was a good idea, not your personal opinion about the Surface keyboard. You frequently lack cognitive thinking on these boards, and with the SATs coming up, you really need to study up a bit on this core competency.

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^THIS is one of the best observations of fanboy vs. consumer sentiment I've ever seen. SO SO true. As long as Apple slaps its logo on something, fanboys will love it and argue that anything else past or present is/will be inferior, until "inferior" becomes the next best thing, emptying wallets. I love Apple products to death but good lord do they fall behind sometimes on the consumers' needs vs. their fans' drool. (To wit, iOS 7.1? Anywhere? Helllooo??)
I'm amazed there's anyone who doesn't laugh those kinds of posts off. It's so full of wildly unsubstantiated claims and confused thinking. For one thing, there are always people who love or hate any Apple might do, is doing or has done. This isn't a sign of rampant "fanboys". It's just people having opinions. An Apple fanboy would be an individual who argues against anything Apple isn't currently pushing and for anything Apple is currently pushing. These people exist, of course, but the vast majority of people expressing what they like or don't like about what Apple has/is/might do are just expressing their own honest opinion from their perspective... no fanboyism is insight.

Second, Apple isn't making a docking keyboard like OP describes (was a little vague, but it sounds like the keyboard would contain something like the contents of a MBA minus the display and I assume the idea is that it would run OS X?) so there's no idea of what the popular reception of such a product would be on MR. If Apple releases such a product and you can find someone who said it was a terrible idea here and then said it was a great idea after Apple releases it, then you can crow about fanboys... to that person.

To the original question. I think a "good idea" from Apple's perspective is a device that does a great job solving problems that a wide range of people have. For accessories it could be just one problem. For primary device, it would be a range of problems. So the first issue with this idea is that the docking keyboard is a tweener... It's like an accessory because it can't stand alone but it's like a primary device in terms of complexity and capability. But the biggest issue is, what problem does it solve? If you just want a laptop and a tablet, you can do that already. While this idea would make the laptop portion slightly lighter, it's at the cost of having to assemble the laptop from two pieces whenever you want to use it and a screen size and aspect ratio not designed for a laptop.

Personally, I like this idea... It's neat. But it's not a good idea from Apple's perspective.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors 604
Jan 24, 2008
7,404
5,786
As usual, terrible idea while Apple doesn't do it. But then, if Apple does do it, it will be "shut up and take my money", "best iPad ever", "how did we ever get by without this?" and so on.
As usual, you get these anti-fanboy rants that can't distinguish between the opinions of individuals and some sort of mythical stereotyping group-think.

The reason that fans of Apple's product sometimes change their mind when Apple releases a product is because Apple takes the time to solve the problems that people hated about the original product. The problem with the Surface isn't the concept of a hybrid device (the iPhone was famously introduced as a hybrid device), but the implementation and product design.

But most of the time, its just different people being excited about different products. (And a couple of people that are just completely irrational. :))

Personally, the only way that I see a hybrid device coming from Apple is if they can achieve feature parity between iOS and OS X and design a way to seamlessly shift the UI depending on whether a mouse or trackpad is connected. (It would probably result in an iWork-like loss of functionality in OS X that would drive a lot of this forum crazy. :D)

No rebooting. No separate desktops. No separate iOS and OS X apps. Simply a change in the chrome around the document that you are working on when you connect the trackpad that takes a second or two. The current document remains exactly the same on screen.
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
2,462
2,520
Upstate, NY
Correct me if I'm wrong but op said that the keyboard part would have normal computer stuff in it making it a full computer when docked which would make it do its job successfully in both modes, no?
That may be true but then isn't it just a MacBook Air with a detachable screen? I mean.... That mightbe cool and all and I'm not knocking it, I just don't personally care for the hybrid type device. I'd rather have aspire tablet and then a powerful laptop do so serious work or whatever.
 

Anti-Lucifer

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 9, 2012
775
2
Thanks for the opinions fella's:

What I'm asking is that the iPad hybrid device to be used as an existing IOS tablet BUT when you dock it with a keyboard ala surface pro style, it becomes a full fledged laptop.

Well you got the MBA 11" that runs OS X - but it lacks touchscreen and yet the ipad is a perfect touchscreen device that can't run OS X. Why not have a dual mode that just makes the iPad's screen to be used as a high res touchscreen when attached to the keyboard which has the proper components to become an OS X laptop hybrid.

I'm not suggesting what the surface pro does which to have the hardware/OS combined into one unit, but instead have two devices; one options if you want to pay for a full laptop, one option if you want just a tablet.

But then again I am thinking if apple can do this, why not just have a mega powerful A8 or A9 processor that can just dual boot or somehow run a hybrid iOS/OS X and also offer a keyboard accessory.

But if apple does this, they would be frowned upon for copying the surface pro. And also this would eat into their laptop products. All this talk about an iPad PRO that is 11-12" in size makes me believe there is some kind of ARM OS X/iOS hybrid coming...
 

LostSoul80

macrumors 68020
Jan 25, 2009
2,133
6
iPad Pro HD SuperThin SuperSmooth DDS with Sapphire glass and dedicated vRAM is next, sorry.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,303
1,695
I don't see it happening.

At the current prices an iPad Pro with a bigger screen and hardware to power a hybrid OS even the wifi version would be more expensive then the Macbook Air.

I think such a device would only compete with other Apple products and actually hurt computer sales.

Why buy a Macbook Air/Pro if your tablet is as powerful to do most of the task a computer can do?
 
AntiLucifer, doing what you post in #20 doesn't seem like much of a challenge. Build the OS X functionality (and horsepower) into the keyboard piece. Leave the iOS functionality (and horsepower) in this iPad Pro. When docked, the iPad Pro becomes just a monitor for the OS X computer. I think there's already apps that will use an iPad as a second screen for a Mac.

Conceptually, take any Mac laptop, rip the 2 pieces of the clam in two. The bulk of the computer is in the part with the keyboard. The other piece is primarily a screen. Now, build the same with keyboard piece (as computer) and iPad Pro (as "screen" when docked). That seems very doable. But would Apple do it? I think probably not.
 

HarryWarden

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2012
589
32
AntiLucifer, doing what you post in #20 doesn't seem like much of a challenge. Build the OS X functionality (and horsepower) into the keyboard piece. Leave the iOS functionality (and horsepower) in this iPad Pro. When docked, the iPad Pro becomes just a monitor for the OS X computer. I think there's already apps that will use an iPad as a second screen for a Mac.

Conceptually, take any Mac laptop, rip the 2 pieces of the clam in two. The bulk of the computer is in the part with the keyboard. The other piece is primarily a screen. Now, build the same with keyboard piece (as computer) and iPad Pro (as "screen" when docked). That seems very doable. But would Apple do it? I think probably not.
If they did, I'd be all over it. It would be more expensive but you would be getting two devices in one so that's to be expected.
 

goobot

macrumors 603
Jun 26, 2009
5,545
1,898
long island NY
I don't see it happening.

At the current prices an iPad Pro with a bigger screen and hardware to power a hybrid OS even the wifi version would be more expensive then the Macbook Air.

I think such a device would only compete with other Apple products and actually hurt computer sales.

Why buy a Macbook Air/Pro if your tablet is as powerful to do most of the task a computer can do?
First i don't think he means hybrid OS, it would switch between iOS and OSX, Also you are right, it is more expensive than a Macbook air, But you must take into consideration what it would cost compared to buy a macbook air AND iPad, It would cost less because it does not need as many components since the iPad is the mac's screen, also less packaging.

Apple would benefit because they are selling you 2 of their devices at once with both of their software, they make the same profit as selling you the two separate devices and more since now you are buying software from both of their OS's. Oh and they can clam it is more eco friendly and all.

Docked it is a macbook with a retina touch screen, you can also swap to iOS mode if wanted, separated it is a slightly bigger iPad, I can also see them allowing you to put the screen on backwards so you can flip it down on its self if you are using it on a table, that way no de-docking and more battery life, you can even allow the base to become a thunderbolt type device for other monitors on the go, same with the tablet since i would imagine they would make the port the 2 connect to each thunderbolt.