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People want touch AND OSX AND iOS. Steve Jobs said people don't know what they want until they get it. And until Apple can provide that, I guess Microsoft is the only solution that works.

Well I don't know if asking for all of that in one device is really feasible. Too many compromises. Unfortunately, nobody has really provided a solution that works. Windows 10 is a terrible touch OS. The surface pro is a nice laptop though. I don't imagine just slapping touch onto OS X is really good idea. I think growing iOS with OS X-like functionality seems like a much better plan.
 
I don't imagine just slapping touch onto OS X is really good idea. I think growing iOS with OS X-like functionality seems like a much better plan.
One thing you can say with absolute certainty about Apple recently is that they have been willing to kill an old product and replace it with something rewritten from the ground up, and when they do that they have been extremely willing to start with less features and add more as time goes on.

Final Cut Pro to FCPX, old Mac Pages to new cross-platform Pages, iPhoto to Photos, iMovie HD to current iMovie. All of those were cases where Apple replaced a current, successful product with something rewritten from the ground up that did less, then added features as time went on.

This does not, of course, mean that Apple will kill the MacOS some day and replace it entirely with iOS--they still offer an iMac and Mac Pro, a MacBook and MacBook Pro, an iPad mini and iPad Pro--but it at least demonstrates that they would not be afraid to do so. And if they were going to kill the MacOS as such some day, that would be they way they would do it.

Noting, of course, that under the hood the roots of iOS are MacOSX, so even if it were to happen it would be more of a rebirth than a replacement. More akin, probably, to replacing OS9 with OS X, although that was actually a far more drastic change from an under-the-hood architecture standpoint.
 
One thing you can say with absolute certainty about Apple recently is that they have been willing to kill an old product and replace it with something rewritten from the ground up, and when they do that they have been extremely willing to start with less features and add more as time goes on.

Final Cut Pro to FCPX, old Mac Pages to new cross-platform Pages, iPhoto to Photos, iMovie HD to current iMovie. All of those were cases where Apple replaced a current, successful product with something rewritten from the ground up that did less, then added features as time went on.

This does not, of course, mean that Apple will kill the MacOS some day and replace it entirely with iOS--they still offer an iMac and Mac Pro, a MacBook and MacBook Pro, an iPad mini and iPad Pro--but it at least demonstrates that they would not be afraid to do so. And if they were going to kill the MacOS as such some day, that would be they way they would do it.

Noting, of course, that under the hood the roots of iOS are MacOSX, so even if it were to happen it would be more of a rebirth than a replacement. More akin, probably, to replacing OS9 with OS X, although that was actually a far more drastic change from an under-the-hood architecture standpoint.

All good points. Agreed. I just don't see them combining the OS's or doing the docked (OS X) / undocked (iOS) thing anytime soon.
 
All good points. Agreed. I just don't see them combining the OS's or doing the docked (OS X) / undocked (iOS) thing anytime soon.
No, I seriously doubt it would happen any time soon either, if ever.

Just that, based on actual precedent, it's certainly something Apple might do, and if they did do it, I doubt they would have any qualms about doing so before iOS (or whatever, if they renamed it) had every feature that the MacOS it replaced did.
 
If it ships on time (they already had to shift the roadmap once), Cannonlake will be available in the second half of 2017. If things continue as they have, Apple will likely be releasing the A11 right about that time. Looking at past iterations, single-core performance only at the iPhone TDP level (ignoring iPads, that is), the A5 was only slightly faster than the A4 (though it added multi-core), the A6 was well over 3 times as fast as an A5, the A7 was twice as fast as an A6, the A8 was only (or "only") 15% faster than an A7, and the A9 is a little less than twice as fast as an A8.

Leaving aside the slightly earlier release of the original iPad, overall, the A9 is almost exactly 12x faster than an A4 in single-core performance in a phone, and was released a bit over 5 years later. That's a pretty good curve. (The difference would be 21x faster if you look at multi-core.)

Over the same time period, using a 45W mobile TDP and whatever was the top of the line, Intel went from a Clarksfield 840QM i7 to a Skylake 6920HQ i7. On the same single-core benchmark, the latter is a bit over 2x faster than the former (3x in multi-core).

Point being, year-over-year since its introduction A-series processor performance increases, thus far, have been huge, while Intel performance increase has leveled off considerably in the past few years. There will definitely come a point of diminishing returns, at least in terms of performance-per-watt--something Intel hit years ago--but if Apple isn't there yet there's no telling what the performance of an A11 will be. It could be a modest improvement, or it could be a literal multiple of current A9 CPUs.

If the average exponential rate of improvement over the past five years were to continue for both chip series (which of course isn't a given; 15% increase per year for each new Intel mobile generation, 64% per year for each new A-series), Cannonlake will be about 32% faster (1.3x) than the current top-of-the-line Skylake at 45W, and the A11 will be about 170% faster (2.7x) than the A9. Were that unlikely progression of technology to actually happen, that would make the iPhone 7S significantly faster than a quad-core Cannonlake laptop in single core performance, and getting close in multi-core; a hypothetical iPad Pro 3 with A11X would almost certainly be faster in both.

All that probably won't happen, but if we're going based on history alone, that's the future, and if you told someone in January of 2010 that Apple would ship more devices with its own custom designed CPUs than the entire desktop and laptop PC market, total, in 2015, no one would believe you.

In any case, it's not like Apple's chip design team is sitting around not doing anything while Intel is producing new designs.

Given Apple's way of doing things, you may well be right about that.

That said, given that Apple sold around 5 million Macs--at, relatively speaking, extremely high prices--in the last quarter, and their laptop/desktop sales have been on a consistent upward trajectory for years, they're probably not in any hurry.

I do find it amusing how many people--geeks in particular--make the extremely flawed assumption that because they want a particular capability in a piece of technology, or have some particular use case in mind that is vital to them, personally, everyone else will. Doesn't mean what you want to do isn't valid, but the geeks reading this site are not representative of the average consumer, and the reality is we're vastly outnumbered by people who have entirely different needs and use cases for a computing device.

You're also leaving out Intel's advances in iGPU. Kaby Lake still hasn't been released, and although the processing speed bump is going to be modest, the real selling point will be its iGPU. Likewise, even if Cannonlake is clocked only slight faster than an A11 (although doubtful), it's other technologies will still make it ideal for the MacBook lineup.

I agree with you on your second point, the Apple Notebooks aren't going anywhere and probably have a lot more growth left in them than the iPad. 4-6 years from now, who knows?
 
No, I seriously doubt it would happen any time soon either, if ever.

Just that, based on actual precedent, it's certainly something Apple might do, and if they did do it, I doubt they would have any qualms about doing so before iOS (or whatever, if they renamed it) had every feature that the MacOS it replaced did.

I believe in the concept:the docked with keyboard/trackpad cover it will get you MacOs, without it will get you IOS.
Basically both will have the same OS kernel, the switch between ios en macos will just be the GUI.
But not before the next 3 years.
The keyboard/trackpad cover will need a seperate A class soc so it could run in parallel with the A soc in the ipad, and have additional storage when they are paired and running in MacOs mode.

So next stop the next 2 years will be developing a MacOs based on ARM and develop more powerfull arm socs with more memory to make it possible.
Smart connector was the first step.
 
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You're also leaving out Intel's advances in iGPU. Kaby Lake still hasn't been released, and although the processing speed bump is going to be modest, the real selling point will be its iGPU. Likewise, even if Cannonlake is clocked only slight faster than an A11 (although doubtful), it's other technologies will still make it ideal for the MacBook lineup.

I agree with you on your second point, the Apple Notebooks aren't going anywhere and probably have a lot more growth left in them than the iPad. 4-6 years from now, who knows?
And, again, it's totally possible you're correct. That Intel's iGPU advances could be so great that even if single or multi core CPU performance is the same it'll have a significant advantage.

But also, again, Apple's iGPU in the A-series isn't standing still. Rather, it's been improving significantly faster than the CPU speed. Between A5 and A9 CPU performance improved roughly 12x, while iGPU performance improvement was more like 23x. Literally every version increment has nearly doubled the iGPU speed, once closer to quadrupled it.

Again, I'm not saying that the A series is definitely going to surpass low-end x86 chips in the near future. Just that Apple is not standing still while Intel improves their lineup, and recently Apple's growth curve in both CPU and GPU speed has been quite steep.

It won't last forever, of course, and Intel's leveling off might curve the other direction at some point. We'll know for sure in a couple years when the A11 ships.

[Edited because the forum did something weird with my post.]
 
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