iPadOS 19 Rumored to Show Mac-Like Menu Bar When Connected to Magic Keyboard

[subjonas]

I have two work Thinkpads, one company and the other client, and on my client TP I use both touch and trackpad for different types of things as you would expect from a hybrid device. Touch screen for general OS navigation and browser scrolling/navigation and trackpad and keyboard for application specific work. This is similar to how I use my iPad although I use the touchscreen more in apps because they are built primarily for touch unlike desktop apps. I don't use the touchscreen in applications more because the work-installed apps aren't built with touch-as-a-primary-input in mind. It's silly to believe that touchscreen would replace mouse/pointer control, it's just an additional form of control which you use for tasks which lend themselves to touch control.

PS. I get annoyed by my company TP without a touchscreen because I reflexively want to use it like my client TP which has a touchscreen. For the same reason I end up with fingerprints on my MBPs screen from reflexively trying to dismiss modals or launch an app from the dock.

Sure, some people get a lot of use out of their laptop touch screens; but based on what I’ve experienced and observed, I surmise those are a minority. Who knows for sure though.

Touch would have its usefulness as an additional way to interface even on a desktop OS vertical screen Mac, but in my opinion it’s just a “nice to have” in some situations—far from the necessity people who clamor for it for Mac make it out to be.

One sort of side note about the “reflexively touching the screen” argument though—I don’t believe that it’s evidence that touch is more intuitive than indirect pointing. Touch is more intuitive of course, but this isn’t the evidence for it that people think it is. Rather, it’s a result of learned behavior. The reason why we reflexively touch the screen is because we got used to it. That’s why we didn’t reflexively touch computer screens before the 2010s when touch devices became ubiquitous. In fact even in present day, after I’ve been using my Macbook and then I use my iPad with a keyboard but no trackpad, I reflexively touch the nonexistent trackpad. I do the same if I’ve been using a mouse, reaching for a nonexistent mouse. The reflex is mainly a result of muscle memory, not intuition.

 

[yabeweb]

This rumors has been circulating since m1 iPad Pro came out, so it’s hard to believe, but there is hope.

 

[starlabjump]

On the other hand, considering Apple's recent track record, it's fair to question whether they can truly achieve such dramatic advancements in software. Over the past few years, Apple has often unveiled impressive demos, but in many cases, actual implementation has taken years — and some features still remain incomplete to this day.

 

[SnowPenguin]

its not about the chip/performance, but the software experience.

I was an early adopter for the Surface Pro, and for as much flack as Windows 8 got, it was a pretty enjoyable tablet OS to use, I'd even argue more intuitive than iPad OS at the time.
But then with Windows 10, they prioritized the Desktop UI at the cost of the tablet experience, so at that point, Surface tablets were only usable with the "optional" (and expensive) keyboard accessory. It wasn't a good tablet anymore, and not even a good laptop either.

Given that the current state of iPadOS (and Apple software in general) is already pretty divisive, I actually don't trust that they'll be able to achieve some magical equilibrium of tablet/desktop UI.

If I remember correctly, Windows 10 has a tablet mode. Have you tried that?

 

[SnowPenguin]

People often say that Apple isn't evolving iPadOS to the level of MacOS because they are afraid this would cannibalize Mac sales.

If that's true, then this is one thing we missed from Steve Jobs days. He was never afraid of cannibalizing Apple's other products, because if he didn't do it, another competitor would do eventually.

 

[tomtad]

People often say that Apple isn't evolving iPadOS to the level of MacOS because they are afraid this would cannibalize Mac sales.

If that's true, then this is one thing we missed from Steve Jobs days. He was never afraid of cannibalizing Apple's other products, because if he didn't do it, another competitor would do eventually.

I personally have never understood this cannibalising argument. Apple prices their devices so they don't undercut others, take the price of say a MacBook Air and compare that to an iPad Air with keyboard.

Macbook Air - £999
iPad Air 13" + Magic Keyboard - £1098

The iPad actually costs slightly more than the MacBook. And yes you might say the iPad has more capabilities with touch and Pencil support, but then it comes with 128GB base storage and half the battery life.

Then some say if they put full MacOS on iPads it would cannibalise Mac sales, but fundamentally if you're in the market for something which is keyboard and pointer first, value long battery life, high performance and a simple, all-in-one device in a aluminium shell you're going to go with a Mac, it will always win for this in it's form factor.

If you want something more flexible you can hold in your hand to consume content, want pencil support for drawing/note taking and appreciate the more flexible, modular nature of the iPad then that's the device you go with. The trade off is a more complex device with slower performance and shorter battery life.

And of course if you get a Mac you can always get a cheap, base iPad to accompany it.

 

[ifxf]

Why doesn’t Apple just enable the ipad OS to do paging/swapping. Maybe it is due of Apple Intelligence but ever since one of the dot 18 releases I have noticed that it is much faster tossing apps out of its memory.

 

[subjonas]

I personally have never understood this cannibalising argument. Apple prices their devices so they don't undercut others, take the price of say a MacBook Air and compare that to an iPad Air with keyboard.

Macbook Air - £999
iPad Air 13" + Magic Keyboard - £1098

The iPad actually costs slightly more than the MacBook. And yes you might say the iPad has more capabilities with touch and Pencil support, but then it comes with 128GB base storage and half the battery life.

Then some say if they put full MacOS on iPads it would cannibalise Mac sales, but fundamentally if you're in the market for something which is keyboard and pointer first, value long battery life, high performance and a solid, all-in-one device in a aluminium shell you're going to go with a Mac, it will always win in it's form factor.

If you want something more flexible you can hold in your hand to consume content, want pencil support for drawing/note taking and appreciate the more flexible, modular nature of the iPad then that's the device you go with. The trade off is a more complex device with slower performance, and shorter battery life.

And of course if you get a Mac you can always get a cheap, base iPad to accompany it.

I agree, the argument has inconsistencies. I’m not sure if this is the same as cannibalism but the reasoning I hear people give the most as to why Apple doesn’t put macOS on iPad is that Apple wants people to buy two devices rather than one (whether the one device is an iPad or a MacBook) because it’s more revenue. But there are a few issues with this reasoning that I see:
- it assumes macOS can run on iPad without changing the hardware and still have the same quality macOS UX. But even the largest iPads have worse thermals and smaller batteries than MacBooks, so the macOS UX would have to be more throttled and shorter-lived.
- it assumes dual boot would be a good UX. But having to shut down and boot up one device is a more cumbersome and disjointed workflow than having two always-on devices at hand that one can switch between very seamlessly with the assist of cloud sync and Continuity. Plus with two devices one can do simultaneous tasks (eg. Sidecar).
- I suspect most of the people clamoring for dual boot simply like having a big premium iPad, but it’s not really a need, so the “Apple forcing me to buy two expensive almost identical devices” doesn’t hold water. For most people, a MacBook and an iPhone does everything they need and an iPad is just an optional luxury. But if one does choose to buy an iPad in addition to a MacBook, like you said, Apple doesn’t force people to buy the most expensive iPad. In fact, if you have a MacBook, for most people it makes less sense to buy a big expensive iPad Pro and Magic Keyboard because there is too much overlap in function. It would make more sense to buy a small light less expensive iPad just for casual use, as it’s better optimized for that (and less optimized productivity/macOS). There are those who need a bigger iPad for specific big tablet uses, usually with the Pencil, but this is a niche, not the common case.

Those with smaller iPads may also want dual boot, but that’s even less likely since it would be even more throttled with even shorter battery life, plus macOS no longer exists on screens smaller than 13”.

However, with recent rumors of a folding screen Mac device, there is a chance Apple will actually make a macOS touch screen device. I think it will have limited touch function with macOS (just gestures plus Pencil support), but it may enable people to use Catalyst iPad apps with touch. I don’t know how likely the rumor is, but this is probably the best chance at a 2-in-1 Apple users will get.

 

[thebart]

Linux with the right desktop blurs the line between Linux and Mac OS way more than these superficial resemblances

 

[It’s always something]

So, as a developer you either build your app to work in both modes, or if you redesign for the menu you will limit your customer base to those willing to use the iPad with a Magic Keyboard.

Even worse, the iPad 11 is left out of the mix entirely, since it doesn’t get to use Magic Keyboard. I suppose they need to clutter things up with another fork of the OS: iPadOS Pro. 🙄

 

[Agent007]

Just an Apple keyboard? What about any other mice and keyboards? There's no technical reason my Logitech G915 mechanical keyboard and G703 mouse can't make use of a menu bar when a Magic Keyboard can.

I'm thinking the same. As if this seemingly half-baked menu bar idea isn't insulting enough, locking it behind proprietary "Smart Keyboards" is so incredibly dumb.

 

[starlabjump]

Most manufacturers like MS, Lenovo, Dell, HP, Samsung, Acer, and LG offer 2-in-1 laptops for users who occasionally need to write on the screen with a pen.
However, Apple is the only one that doesn't make a 2-in-1 laptop — not even a touchscreen Mac.

I really like Mac and macOS, but since I need to use an e-pen on the screen about once a week, I'm forced to buy and carry an iPad along with my MacBook.

Besides the additional cost of the iPad, I really dislike the extra weight of carrying two devices at once.

On the other hand, Apple is surely happy because two devices are sold instead of one.

 

[subjonas]

Most manufacturers like MS, Lenovo, Dell, HP, Samsung, Acer, and LG offer 2-in-1 laptops for users who occasionally need to write on the screen with a pen.
However, Apple is the only one that doesn't make a 2-in-1 laptop — not even a touchscreen Mac.

I really like Mac and macOS, but since I need to use an e-pen on the screen about once a week, I'm forced to buy and carry an iPad along with my MacBook.

Besides the additional cost of the iPad, I really dislike the extra weight of carrying two devices at once.

On the other hand, Apple is surely happy because two devices are sold instead of one.

If all you need an iPad for is to sign or mark up once in awhile, then a base iPad and USBC Pencil costs $430. If Apple made a convertible MacBook with stylus support, there’s a good chance it would cost more than $430 more than a standard MacBook, so I don’t think it’s clear that you’d be saving any money.

Edit- oops I shouldn’t have included that $80 Pencil cost since one would have to buy the Pencil for either device. So it would just be the cost of the base iPad $350, not $430.

 

[starlabjump]

If all you need an iPad for is to sign or mark up once in awhile, then a base iPad and USBC Pencil costs $430. If Apple made a convertible MacBook with stylus support, there’s a good chance it would cost more than $430 more than a standard MacBook, so I don’t think it’s clear that you’d be saving any money.

do not forget extra weight and space along with it though

also it is cumbersome to manage two devices.

 

[jlnr]

Maybe for grandma, but I’ve seen a kid launch a youtube video, PiP it then toss it off the side of the screen so they can listen to a youtube video while playing a game. And, effortlessly switches from one activity to the next. No one had taught him, just trial and error’d his way through making it work like he wanted.

Agree that kids are great at learning these things, but I still noticed gestures getting in the way of game controls. Software quality also plays into this, which hasn't gotten better with all the new extra features. And if kids can learn these quirks and work around them, then why not give them a device with more features? To me, an iPad that is not braindead simple has lost its only selling point.

 

[subjonas]

do not forget extra weight and space along with it though

also it is cumbersome to manage two devices.

True that two devices would be heavier/bigger/more cumbersome than one (although a convertible would probably be a bit bigger/heavier than a standard MacBook), but the trade off is you then have a heavy device to write on, as opposed to a light iPad. If you only need it for a quick signature or something, then you don’t mind. But for someone who needs to use it longer, it might not be worth the trade off. And I think this has been Apple’s view on the matter, that a stylus should be used with a light tablet for the best UX for most stylus users.

Obviously it would be ideal if Apple offered both options so Mac users who just need to do a quick signature or markup can have their ideal device. I’ve actually been in the market for a portable Mac with stylus support for over a decade myself, as someone who needs to use a stylus with desktop applications every day. But apparently Apple hasn’t seen these markets as sizable enough to be worth the cost/effort to develop a Mac tablet/convertible.

(By the way, I shouldn’t have added the price of the Pencil in that $430 figure earlier, since one would need to buy the Pencil regardless for either device, so the price difference should actually be $350.)

Edit- your other option for signing/marking up on a Mac is to get a pen tablet. Not as ideal as a built-in pen screen of course, but they’re very small, lightweight, inexpensive, and get the job done.

Wacom Intuos Small Bluetooth Pistachio

Wacom Intuos has been expertly designed for anyone who’s just getting started with digital creation. Whether you have a background in traditional art and want to try digital, or just need more precision and fluidity in your creative practice than a mouse or trackpad can provide, it’s the perfect...

estore.wacom.com

 

[MacFarmer]

we need macOS Finder! OR Marta equivalent.

 

[starlabjump]

True that two devices would be heavier/bigger/more cumbersome than one (although a convertible would probably be a bit bigger/heavier than a standard MacBook), but the trade off is you then have a heavy device to write on, as opposed to a light iPad. If you only need it for a quick signature or something, then you don’t mind. But for someone who needs to use it longer, it might not be worth the trade off. And I think this has been Apple’s view on the matter, that a stylus should be used with a light tablet for the best UX for most stylus users.

Obviously it would be ideal if Apple offered both options so Mac users who just need to do a quick signature or markup can have their ideal device. I’ve actually been in the market for a portable Mac with stylus support for over a decade myself, as someone who needs to use a stylus with desktop applications every day. But apparently Apple hasn’t seen these markets as sizable enough to be worth the cost/effort to develop a Mac tablet/convertible.

(By the way, I shouldn’t have added the price of the Pencil in that $430 figure earlier, since one would need to buy the Pencil regardless for either device, so the price difference should actually be $350.)

Edit- your other option for signing/marking up on a Mac is to get a pen tablet. Not as ideal as a built-in pen screen of course, but they’re very small, lightweight, inexpensive, and get the job done.

Wacom Intuos Small Bluetooth Pistachio

Wacom Intuos has been expertly designed for anyone who’s just getting started with digital creation. Whether you have a background in traditional art and want to try digital, or just need more precision and fluidity in your creative practice than a mouse or trackpad can provide, it’s the perfect...

estore.wacom.com

well, in fact, i did add wacom tablet and it kinda worked but not as smooth as direct writing on screen. And it still is not convenient to carry macbook and wacom together. By the way, I do have ipad pro m1 at home, and I appreciate its usage and but at the same time resent its kinda unnessary cost/weight, etc. I have zero plan to buy any new ipad pros until its ipados vastly improves.

I know that surface pro fits my need best, but I still prefer macbook and macos over windows devices at the moment.

 

[darngooddesign]

Sure, some people get a lot of use out of their laptop touch screens; but based on what I’ve experienced and observed, I surmise those are a minority. Who knows for sure though.

Touch would have its usefulness as an additional way to interface even on a desktop OS vertical screen Mac, but in my opinion it’s just a “nice to have” in some situations—far from the necessity people who clamor for it for Mac make it out to be.

I consider it very nice to have and would prefer my next MacBook have a touchscreen.

One sort of side note about the “reflexively touching the screen” argument though—I don’t believe that it’s evidence that touch is more intuitive than indirect pointing. Touch is more intuitive of course, but this isn’t the evidence for it that people think it is. Rather, it’s a result of learned behavior. The reason why we reflexively touch the screen is because we got used to it. That’s why we didn’t reflexively touch computer screens before the 2010s when touch devices became ubiquitous. In fact even in present day, after I’ve been using my Macbook and then I use my iPad with a keyboard but no trackpad, I reflexively touch the nonexistent trackpad. I do the same if I’ve been using a mouse, reaching for a nonexistent mouse. The reflex is mainly a result of muscle memory, not intuition.

Only half of my computers (three laptops and an iPad) have touchscreens so I have as much muscle memory to use the touchscreen as I do use a trackpad; but it is quicker and more natural for me to just tap a button I see on the screen than it is to put my finger on the trackpad, move the pointer, and then click on the button.

 

[PegLegDreg]

THIS. I really hope Apple doesn’t force us to use their official peripherals to enable this “computer” mode.

I mean, I have an official Mac Magic Keyboard (with Touch ID) and Magic Trackpad. And it would be insane if this features were exclusive of the iPad’s Magic Keyboard.

To be fair back in 2020 when mouse and keyboard support was added to iPad OS Apple made it available to pretty much anything.

 

[philpalmiero]

Just an Apple keyboard? What about any other mice and keyboards? There's no technical reason my Logitech G915 mechanical keyboard and G703 mouse can't make use of a menu bar when a Magic Keyboard can.

Apple needs more money.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

So it'll just look like MacOS, as opposed to working more like MacOS?

 

[HighwaySnowman]

Sure, some people get a lot of use out of their laptop touch screens; but based on what I’ve experienced and observed, I surmise those are a minority. Who knows for sure though.

Touch would have its usefulness as an additional way to interface even on a desktop OS vertical screen Mac, but in my opinion it’s just a “nice to have” in some situations—far from the necessity people who clamor for it for Mac make it out to be.

One sort of side note about the “reflexively touching the screen” argument though—I don’t believe that it’s evidence that touch is more intuitive than indirect pointing. Touch is more intuitive of course, but this isn’t the evidence for it that people think it is. Rather, it’s a result of learned behavior. The reason why we reflexively touch the screen is because we got used to it. That’s why we didn’t reflexively touch computer screens before the 2010s when touch devices became ubiquitous. In fact even in present day, after I’ve been using my Macbook and then I use my iPad with a keyboard but no trackpad, I reflexively touch the nonexistent trackpad. I do the same if I’ve been using a mouse, reaching for a nonexistent mouse. The reflex is mainly a result of muscle memory, not intuition.

Nope.

People have been poking screens with their greasy fingers for DECADES. Many years before the vast majority of people had ever used a touchscreen, they poked at computer screens. I've seen them do it, I've had to clean the mess before I could tolerate using their computer long enough to see what problem they were on about, I've seen them immediately poke it again after I told them to stop touching it.

The screen touchers weren't trained back then, they were born.

 

[HighwaySnowman]

do not forget extra weight and space along with it though

also it is cumbersome to manage two devices.

Only two? LOLOLOLOL

 

[subjonas]

well, in fact, i did add wacom tablet and it kinda worked but not as smooth as direct writing on screen. And it still is not convenient to carry macbook and wacom together. By the way, I do have ipad pro m1 at home, and I appreciate its usage and but at the same time resent its kinda unnessary cost/weight, etc. I have zero plan to buy any new ipad pros until its ipados vastly improves.

I know that surface pro fits my need best, but I still prefer macbook and macos over windows devices at the moment.

I’ve been using a Surface (Laptop Studio) too for the past few years until recently. I prefer Mac too so I also got a MacBook Pro and Wacom Cintiq. Now I switch back and forth depending on how mobile I need to be (Surface is much more portable). I also have a 13” iPad which suits me well for personal use on the go, but for work I need desktop software.

Again, Apple likely thinks most people who need a stylus have a better UX with iPad—either with iPad software or Mac software via Sidecar. Apple may be right especially if people already find it beneficial to have an iPad around for general use (and assuming Sidecar works well with their Mac software which is not the case for me). But for those for whom an iPad isn’t a good solution, Apple leaves them to either turn to third party peripherals like Wacoms or switch to a Windows 2-in-1. That’s money on the table Apple is losing but I have to assume it’s because they calculated that it’s not worth the investment cost, at least so far. That can always change and I’m always hoping it does.