iPadOS 26 is an Absolute Mess

[Steve Adams]

My IPP M1 is still snappy. Maybe I haven’t stressed it enough. But one can use the iPad IMO as they did before. Maybe not everybody likes the new design, but LG can be toned fish n and it’s not all that different than iOS 18. Apple wanted to attract more power users, so they have increased functionality to those who wanted it. iPads may not be for everybody. And the oled screen on the m4 and m5 IPP are gorgeous.

Dude,

My 10th gen is snappy. The last update fixed the lag when switching between apps etc. It's all back to snap now.

 

[bcortens]

I don't know. Integrating SlideOver multi-stack into Windowed Mode... just thinking about using that in practice, would introduce so much confusion.

Because you have a SlideOver multi-stack windows and then floating windows displayed, not saying it's not possible... but the reason why Apple removed the multi-stack from SlideOver because users can have more windows displayed onscreen (previously it was only 3).


Yes, it is true. The way to get into SplitView is back to the was in iPadOS 18.

No it isn't.

You can put apps side by side that isn't the same as the split-view multitasking system of iPadOS 18... it just isn't

In iPadOS 18 I could go into the multitasking switcher and view multiple Split View groups and drag apps in and out of those groups and each group, as I keep trying to point out, was in its own dedicated group/space with no windows behind it or other apps in the group.

In 26 uses the same conceptual space/windowing area for all left-right window groups (they get stacked on top of each other). This isn't the Split-View people want. You can call it Split View and try and but it isn't its just left right snapping which is not the same thing.

We had this discussion before... App Exposé in the manner in which you use it doesn't exist anymore, that is true. But you can have dedicated spaces/groups in Stage Manager mode. You bring a group into focus( or stage).. you manage that group.

The point of it is... you don't like the way it looks.

I don't like it because it works worse!

You refuse to acknowledge that I don't want my safari windows all stacked on top of each other because it makes it harder to find the one I want. I know you don't care about this, but the fact that I do doesn't mean I don't like the way it looks.

I don't like the way it works!

 

[Kal Madda]

It doesn't benefit your workflow because you don't know what you would be using it for.

On Windows and Mac, I can set up links between documents. E.g. I can have a link in a Word document pulling a related spreadsheet. This won't work in iOS. Backup to an external drive and syncronization between drives or unrelated services are a lot harder to do. A cloud first setup is fine, but it's uncomfortably close to being cloud only.

There are several great apps for iPad that support file synchronization between folders, and you can also pretty readily create a Siri Shortcut that will synchronize folders. I haven’t had any issues with that. I don’t see how accessing OS files has anything to do with syncing files between third-party app folders… But as I said, I’m sure some benefit from such access, I just don’t have any need for it for my workflow, and I suspect most don’t need that either. 🤷🏼‍♂️

You still can exclusively use Mac AppStore. Just don't load the apps which are not on it.

I can’t when apps that I have to use don’t provide their app in the App Store, and I’m forced to have to side load it. “You can exclusively use the Mac App Store” sounds great on paper, and I’m sure it may be possible for some, but many third-party utilities refuse to give me the option to do so, unlike on iPadOS where I can source all required apps from the App Store, and not have to worry about it. And I can actually see what data the app collects before installing it, something I can’t do with the apps I’m stuck having to side load on macOS. As I said, I try to use only the Mac App Store as much as possible. But it’s impossible to do so exclusively for me, as inevitably there winds up being some app I need (not want) that forces me to side load. It is not the true App Store only choice and experience I have on iPadOS.

And there's been malware in AppStore as well.

And? I didn’t say that there’s never been any malware in any app in the App Store. I said the risks are dramatically reduced, not removed entirely… The point is, I get app review, and see what data the app collects before I install it (and have user reviews), things I don’t get when I go to some third party’s website and install their software…

It's actually worse on the iOS, isn't it? I had an app that I used a lot, the vendor stopped developing and pulled the AppStore version, I still have my Windows version and my Mac version but I can no longer use the documents on my iPad or iPhone.

If you already have the app installed and you own it, then it stays there, it doesn’t uninstall off the device. And that’s a separate issue from app updates. Any app developer could pull or stop developing their app whether it’s distributed by App Store or not. That’s not something unique to the App Store system…

And you're still perfectly able to limit yourself to only using the apps which exist on AppStore, just like in iOS.

As I said before, I am not… So many proponents of app side loading try to make that argument, but the Mac is exhibit A of why that is not a viable choice for many, when required third-party utilities force users to have to side load their apps…

Unfortunately Surfaces suck as tablets, and aren't very good laptops because of all the trade offs done for that tablet mode. As usual with MS, a brilliant concept killed by poor execution. By the way, I started on Windows Mobile and to this day, 15 years later, some of its features are unrivaled by either Android or iOS. MS should have owned the mobile market but again... poor execution.

I certainly mostly agree with you there, though I understand it’s a pretty subjective thing, and have family who swear by it. I think it really depends on preferences and needs. To me, I obviously think the iPad is a far superior tablet to the Surface Pro. Others may disagree and find it a better fit for their preferences. Just like the debate between Android and iOS. I say, use whatever you enjoy and works best for you. If that’s a Surface Pro, congrats! If that’s an iPad, congrats! 🙂👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

You keep saying this but it isn't true. Split View is NOT back in the way it was in iPadOS 18.

In iPadOS 18 you could arrange multiple split views in their own dedicated spaces/groups accessible from the multitasking switcher view. it is impossible to do this with the windowing mode of iPadOS 26.
Stage manager gives you weird stacks of windows that I don't want either.

If you didn't care bout resizable floating windows (which many didn't) then iPadOS 18 offered the superior windowing experience.

Stage Manager gives you individual spaces you can choose to make “weird stacks of windows”, but you don’t have to use them for windows. You can use a stage in stage manager for a fullscreen app, two apps in Split View, or even 3 or 4 way Split Views now. Stage Manager doesn’t default to little floating windows like macOS does. Apps still open the first time in fullscreen by default, just as before. Drag another app over it from the App Dock, and the two become a Split View. That’s exactly the way Split View used to work as far as I recall.

You can replicate the exact same functionality this way. The difference is, if you choose to, you can push it further and add more windows into a stage as you want or need them.

 

[Kal Madda]

No it isn't.

You can put apps side by side that isn't the same as the split-view multitasking system of iPadOS 18... it just isn't

In iPadOS 18 I could go into the multitasking switcher and view multiple Split View groups and drag apps in and out of those groups and each group, as I keep trying to point out, was in its own dedicated group/space with no windows behind it or other apps in the group.

In 26 uses the same conceptual space/windowing area for all left-right window groups (they get stacked on top of each other). This isn't the Split-View people want. You can call it Split View and try and but it isn't its just left right snapping which is not the same thing.


I don't like it because it works worse!

You refuse to acknowledge that I don't want my safari windows all stacked on top of each other because it makes it harder to find the one I want. I know you don't care about this, but the fact that I do doesn't mean I don't like the way it looks.

I don't like the way it works!

Using Stage Manager would solve this. You can create as many individual stages as you want, and can use a stage for a single fullscreen app, two apps in Split View, etc. And you can drag and drop Split View app windows between stages just like what you’re describing with the older Split View setup. Stage Manager is your friend here, not your enemy, as it replicates the functionality you’re talking about. I hope that helps. 🙂👍🏻

 

[bcortens]

Using Stage Manager would solve this. You can create as many individual stages as you want, and can use a stage for a single fullscreen app, two apps in Split View, etc. And you can drag and drop Split View app windows between stages just like what you’re describing with the older Split View setup. Stage Manager is your friend here, not your enemy, as it replicates the functionality you’re talking about. I hope that helps. 🙂👍🏻

Stage manager has the problem of window stacking. If I have 3+ fullscreen safari windows they get stacked up in stage manger, stage manager does have slightly better group management than the windowed mode but it still isn't as good as iPadOS 18 was...

 

[bcortens]

Using Stage Manager would solve this. You can create as many individual stages as you want, and can use a stage for a single fullscreen app, two apps in Split View, etc. And you can drag and drop Split View app windows between stages just like what you’re describing with the older Split View setup. Stage Manager is your friend here, not your enemy, as it replicates the functionality you’re talking about. I hope that helps. 🙂👍🏻

I do appreciate the help, I have a few iPads I use regularly and the 26.4 iPad has been in windowed mode for a while. I think I'll switch it to stage manager and try and adjust my workflows a bit... I still have an iPad on iPadOS 18 though and that one is just so much easier to work with that I still find the new system disappointing.

 

[I7guy]

I do appreciate the help, I have a few iPads I use regularly and the 26.4 iPad has been in windowed mode for a while. I think I'll switch it to stage manager and try and adjust my workflows a bit... I still have an iPad on iPadOS 18 though and that one is just so much easier to work with that I still find the new system disappointing.

Can you describe your workflows and what you are doing? Currently my workflow is one YouTube window and multiple browser windows.

 

[bcortens]

Can you describe your workflows and what you are doing? Currently my workflow is one YouTube window and multiple browser windows.

I like to have multiple safari windows for different purposes, I have categories of personal use, a window for news, a window for reading, etc... When doing writing type work I usually have a reference window (safari, PDF, etc...) beside an writing window (Pages, Notes, etc...) and usually I keep multiple reference-editing pairs open at the same time.

I also like to keep mail and calendar side by side at all times and usually keep messages in slide-over.

 

[I7guy]

I like to have multiple safari windows for different purposes, I have categories of personal use, a window for news, a window for reading, etc... When doing writing type work I usually have a reference window (safari, PDF, etc...) beside an writing window (Pages, Notes, etc...) and usually I keep multiple reference-editing pairs open at the same time.

I also like to keep mail and calendar side by side at all times and usually keep messages in slide-over.

From what you describe that is about 6 windows, which sounds cramped on a single screen.

 

[bcortens]

From what you describe that is about 6 windows, which sounds cramped on a single screen.

I don't keep them on screen at the same time. The way that Split View worked in iPadOS 18 let me have them across multiple groups/spaces. The space/group management is worse in iPadOS 26 for the way I liked to work. If a person used and enjoyed the way that the iPadOS 18 split-view system worked then iPadOS 26 is a downgrade.

I get that the loudest iPadOS power users didn't like Split View but I've always maintained that the windowing in iPadOS was never the biggest obstacle to multitasking anyway.

 

[RLRabb]

Stage manager has the problem of window stacking. If I have 3+ fullscreen safari windows they get stacked up in stage manger, stage manager does have slightly better group management than the windowed mode but it still isn't as good as iPadOS 18 was...

I think I see part of the confusion here. In Stage Manager, you can have multiple windows of the same app open in different stages, even in full screen mode. Even when they are in different stages, however, if you go into App Expose they may show as a single stack when they are in full screen mode, suggesting they are in the same stage, even when they are not. I can see where this might be extremely annoying if you use multiple full screen instances of the same app in different stages and want to use the Expose staging area to maneuver between them. What you would need to do instead is use the Menu bar from within that app and go to Window>Show All Windows. On a hardware keyboard, the shortcut for this is Globe/down arrow.

 

[Kal Madda]

I don't keep them on screen at the same time. The way that Split View worked in iPadOS 18 let me have them across multiple groups/spaces. The space/group management is worse in iPadOS 26 for the way I liked to work. If a person used and enjoyed the way that the iPadOS 18 split-view system worked then iPadOS 26 is a downgrade.

I think it depends. People enjoy one thing, and then enjoy the new thing even better. I wouldn’t say as a universal rule that if you enjoyed the old system then you’ll see the new one as a downgrade, but perhaps I’m overthinking what you said there. 👍🏻. I can see though that some may have preferred the old system over the new one. Sadly, I don’t know that Apple could really do much better of a job at appealing to both. Perhaps Apple will continue to iterate and improve it, and create a setup people like yourself prefer. 🙂👍🏻

I get that the loudest iPadOS power users didn't like Split View but I've always maintained that the windowing in iPadOS was never the biggest obstacle to multitasking anyway.

While I am a power user, I also do like Split View. That was actually one of the main downsides of the older Stage Manager system in my opinion, I had to choose either multi-windowing or Split View and Slide Over, I didn’t have both integrated into one system. I got used to manually resizing and positioning windows into Split View like views in Stage Manager, and it worked, but it wasn’t near as nice as Split View is now in the new system. Like I said, maybe Apple can further improve it, I’m not at all opposed to that. 🙂👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

I think I see part of the confusion here. In Stage Manager, you can have multiple windows of the same app open in different stages, even in full screen mode. Even when they are in different stages, however, if you go into App Expose they may show as a single stack when they are in full screen mode, suggesting they are in the same stage, even when they are not. I can see where this might be extremely annoying if you use multiple full screen instances of the same app in different stages and want to use the Expose staging area to maneuver between them. What you would need to do instead is use the Menu bar from within that app and go to Window>Show All Windows. On a hardware keyboard, the shortcut for this is Globe/down arrow.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, in App Exposé, multiple windows of the same app are shown grouped together. An alternative to this would be using the sidebar part of Stage Manager, that shows recent stages. This will show them independently in their respective stages. And it’s also easy to drag an app window from the current stage into one in that strip, or to drag an app window from that strip into the current stage. 👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

I do appreciate the help, I have a few iPads I use regularly and the 26.4 iPad has been in windowed mode for a while. I think I'll switch it to stage manager and try and adjust my workflows a bit... I still have an iPad on iPadOS 18 though and that one is just so much easier to work with that I still find the new system disappointing.

You’re welcome, I hope it helps you out. I think you’ll like Stage Manager. It isn’t exactly like the old system, but it makes it pretty similar I think. 👍🏻

 

[achappy]

I think that Stage Manager in iPadOS26 is miles better than iPadOS18. So much so it would've been nice to rename it or something. It got such a bad rap in 18 that I think so many people shy away from it thinking it's similar but it's so much better. I tried it multiple times in 18 and always switched back. But I've been using SM since 26 Dev Beta 2.

As pointed out, with SM you can have multiple Stages each with SplitViews of the same or different app or MultiView (i.e. 3 apps aligned) and easily switch between them via keyboard or 5-finger swipe or "Most Recent" by sliding in from the left to show most recent stages. Full screen apps show up in their own Stage.

And if you don't want to deal with windows, just use SM with Full Screen apps and just have the Stages you want be SplitView. In settings you can turn off the MenuBar when not using a Keyboard.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

There are several great apps for iPad that support file synchronization between folders, and you can also pretty readily create a Siri Shortcut that will synchronize folders.

I am aware of 3rd party apps. But there's no OS tools for that, so the user is at the mercy of vendors being around.

A Siri shortcut won't work as well.

I haven’t had any issues with that. I don’t see how accessing OS files has anything to do with syncing files between third-party app folders…

It's not about accessing OS files, it's about not having an open filesystem. I didn't access OS files on Android but I did make use of filesystem.

But as I said, I’m sure some benefit from such access, I just don’t have any need for it for my workflow, and I suspect most don’t need that either. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I suspect most people don't do some things that you consider essential either.

I still have data from my very fist computer... from the last century. Some of it is still relevant.
I don't have data uploaded to cloud accounts 15 years ago.
Cloud is extremely convenient but you don't have the level of control over your own data you get with physical backups.
Doing physical backups without good synchronization tools is limiting.

I can’t when apps that I have to use don’t provide their app in the App Store, and I’m forced to have to side load it. “You can exclusively use the Mac App Store” sounds great on paper, and I’m sure it may be possible for some, but many third-party utilities refuse to give me the option to do so, unlike on iPadOS where I can source all required apps from the App Store, and not have to worry about it.

Or the other way to look at it is that on the iPad, you only have the apps that exist in the AppStore. You would not be complaining about this situation if on Mac you were also limited to only using the apps that are available on the App Store. You're complaining because you have extra choices not because you have less choice.

And I can actually see what data the app collects before installing it, something I can’t do with the apps I’m stuck having to side load on macOS.

No what you see is an extremely vague list. Again, you can limit yourself to not side loading apps and pretending they don't exist at all. Just like on iOS.

As I said, I try to use only the Mac App Store as much as possible. But it’s impossible to do so exclusively for me, as inevitably there winds up being some app I need (not want) that forces me to side load. It is not the true App Store only choice and experience I have on iPadOS.

There's plenty of apps that exists on Mac but simply don't exist on iPadOS. As I said, you're complaining about having extra choice. If that choice wasn't there to begin with, would you still complain?

And? I didn’t say that there’s never been any malware in any app in the App Store. I said the risks are dramatically reduced, not removed entirely… The point is, I get app review, and see what data the app collects before I install it (and have user reviews), things I don’t get when I go to some third party’s website and install their software…

Going to the 3rd party website and installing their software is optional.

If you already have the app installed and you own it, then it stays there, it doesn’t uninstall off the device.

Until you upgrade to the next OS version, or change the device, or even simply restore from a backup. You need to re-download all software and it won't be there.

And that’s a separate issue from app updates. Any app developer could pull or stop developing their app whether it’s distributed by App Store or not. That’s not something unique to the App Store system…

Except that at work, I still use a Windows software title that was last updated in 2009 and the company has been out of business ever since. If it ever stops working we may end up developing our own, it's a pretty niche engineering tool that saves a lot of time. On my home PC I use a couple programs that are even older than that, but still work. The Mac version of the app I was complaining about still works just fine. On iOS however, once the developer stops paying for hosting the app on AppStore you're done. It's the very nature of App Store. You have zero control over apps, you don't own anything, and your ability to use any app you paid for can be stopped immediately at any time.

As I said before, I am not… So many proponents of app side loading try to make that argument, but the Mac is exhibit A of why that is not a viable choice for many, when required third-party utilities force users to have to side load their apps…

You are mistaking choice with being forced. Nobody forces you to side load.

I certainly mostly agree with you there, though I understand it’s a pretty subjective thing, and have family who swear by it. I think it really depends on preferences and needs. To me, I obviously think the iPad is a far superior tablet to the Surface Pro. Others may disagree and find it a better fit for their preferences. Just like the debate between Android and iOS. I say, use whatever you enjoy and works best for you. If that’s a Surface Pro, congrats! If that’s an iPad, congrats! 🙂👍🏻

There are very concrete valid problems with Surface Pro as a tablet, that iPads don't have. However, there's very few Windows tablets so one uses what one can if that's what one needs.

 

[Kal Madda]

I am aware of 3rd party apps. But there's no OS tools for that, so the user is at the mercy of vendors being around.

I’ve never used an OS tool other than Siri Shortcuts or the copy paste tools for that on macOS either, so I don’t see a big difference. Again, as I said, others such as yourself probably have need for that, I really don’t have any need for such OS tools, nor do I know how I would use them in the first place on a Mac. I’ve never seen any options for it in Finder. Siri Shortcuts have worked well for me. Third party apps like FileSync Pro and FileBrowser Pro handle such things perfectly fine for me. And there’s also copying folders and pasting them to external drives manually as well. 🤷🏼‍♂️

A Siri shortcut won't work as well.

Well, it works pretty well for me, but that’s largely probably subjective… 🤷🏼‍♂️

It's not about accessing OS files, it's about not having an open filesystem. I didn't access OS files on Android but I did make use of filesystem.

If you’re talking about files from apps, all of those are accessible in the Files app, at least in my experience. All of the apps I’ve ever used that create standard files also provide file folders in the Files app, just like on the Mac. I can easily access any files I’ve saved in Affinity, for example, in the Affinity folder. Same with my 3D apps like Nomad Sculpt. The vast majority of apps have a file folder in Files in my experience. If some don’t, it’s not due to Files or an OS limitation, it’s just the developer chose not to. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I suspect most people don't do some things that you consider essential either.

I more than suspect that, I know it. Several things I consider essential for my workflow, others don’t, and I fully recognize that. I’m not saying these things aren’t or shouldn’t be important for you or your workflow, sorry if anything I’ve said came across that way to you. 🙂👍🏻

I still have data from my very fist computer... from the last century. Some of it is still relevant.
I don't have data uploaded to cloud accounts 15 years ago.
Cloud is extremely convenient but you don't have the level of control over your own data you get with physical backups.
Doing physical backups without good synchronization tools is limiting.

Sure. I don’t completely rely on cloud either. I do use cloud backups for some things, but I do a lot of manual backups. And I haven’t had an issue doing so with the tools that I discussed earlier.

Or the other way to look at it is that on the iPad, you only have the apps that exist in the AppStore. You would not be complaining about this situation if on Mac you were also limited to only using the apps that are available on the App Store. You're complaining because you have extra choices not because you have less choice.

No, I’m complaining that developers are allowed to get away with providing me with no choice but to side load their app (in many cases probably so they can collect more of my data, and didn’t want to have to disclose that as they’d have to in the App Store), and they don’t have to distribute their app in the App Store. As I said, many such utilities are not optional. They’re required. I am forced to install them in order to use the device in any kind of practical manner. On iPadOS, these same apps (or good alternatives) are available in the App Store. On the Mac, they are not available in the App Store. And this is the problem. Side loading doesn’t give me “more choices”, it forces me into choices I don’t want to make, but am forced to because developers don’t provide me with the option to install their app from the App Store as they do on the iPad… Case in point: Nomad Sculpt. On the iPad, I can easily source it from the iPad App Store. On the Mac, the developer forces me to side load the app, I can’t install it from the Mac App Store, even though I can install it from the iPad App Store. I have many mission critical files created in that format. If I want to be able to work with these project files on the Mac to make any practical use of it, I am forced to side load the app. And yes, if all Apps were required to be installed from the App Store on the Mac, then developers would be forced to give me the option to install their app from the App Store if they wanted to be available on the Mac…

No what you see is an extremely vague list. Again, you can limit yourself to not side loading apps and pretending they don't exist at all. Just like on iOS.

It tells me the kinds of data it collects, which is more than I get when I am forced to side load an app and they don’t tell me anything… And no, I cannot effectively do that, as I already explained…

There's plenty of apps that exists on Mac but simply don't exist on iPadOS. As I said, you're complaining about having extra choice. If that choice wasn't there to begin with, would you still complain?

And there’s plenty of apps that exist on iPad but simply don’t exist on macOS. I’m complaining about having less choice, because where on iPadOS, I can install any and every iPad app from the App Store, on macOS, I have to install several essential apps via sideloading. Again, you keep saying I can choose, but my workflow doesn’t agree. My clients don’t agree. People I collaborate with and use x tool and need me to use x tool as well in order to collaborate don’t agree… And I even have it relatively easy, many workplaces require employees to use certain apps, and those often aren’t available in the Mac App Store because the dev chooses not to make it available there for one reason or another, and so those people are quite literally forced by their employer to side load those apps.

Going to the 3rd party website and installing their software is optional.

It’s not as “optional” as you make it out to be…

Until you upgrade to the next OS version, or change the device, or even simply restore from a backup. You need to re-download all software and it won't be there.

I’ve had a couple of apps that were dropped as you said. And they still remained on my devices. With updates, and even moving to new devices.

Except that at work, I still use a Windows software title that was last updated in 2009 and the company has been out of business ever since. If it ever stops working we may end up developing our own, it's a pretty niche engineering tool that saves a lot of time. On my home PC I use a couple programs that are even older than that, but still work. The Mac version of the app I was complaining about still works just fine. On iOS however, once the developer stops paying for hosting the app on AppStore you're done. It's the very nature of App Store. You have zero control over apps, you don't own anything, and your ability to use any app you paid for can be stopped immediately at any time.

That has not been my experience, as I said before. And from my perspective, I have more control. I can opt out of automatic app updates if I don’t want them. I can easily cancel subscriptions in one place where it’s harder for apps to hide it away and make it frustrating and difficult. I can install it from a more secure source where it’s undergone review from another party that I trust. I get a lot of things I don’t get with the forced side loading system on Mac…

You are mistaking choice with being forced. Nobody forces you to side load.

I already explained that I am effectively forced to. Telling me I’m not forced to side load apps that I need doesn’t change anything… 🙄🤷🏼‍♂️. I think we should either drop debate over side loading, or move it elsewhere (you or I could create a thread for it and invite the other to it if you wish to do that), as it’s straying from the topic of this thread. I respect your opinion and that some prefer it. I don’t prefer it.

There are very concrete valid problems with Surface Pro as a tablet, that iPads don't have. However, there's very few Windows tablets so one uses what one can if that's what one needs.

I think I agree with that. 🙂👍🏻

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I’ve never used an OS tool other than Siri Shortcuts or the copy paste tools for that on macOS either, so I don’t see a big difference. Again, as I said, others such as yourself probably have need for that, I really don’t have any need for such OS tools, nor do I know how I would use them in the first place on a Mac. I’ve never seen any options for it in Finder. Siri Shortcuts have worked well for me. Third party apps like FileSync Pro and FileBrowser Pro handle such things perfectly fine for me. And there’s also copying folders and pasting them to external drives manually as well. 🤷🏼‍♂️

It probably depends on the use case. E.g. I had files residing in Cryptomator which I want to sync (not just copy) to files in the built-in OneDrive Vault (just so I had two independent encrypted storage options). Doing it on Mac was trivial, doing it on the iPad was not.

Well, it works pretty well for me, but that’s largely probably subjective… 🤷🏼‍♂️

If you’re talking about files from apps, all of those are accessible in the Files app, at least in my experience. All of the apps I’ve ever used that create standard files also provide file folders in the Files app, just like on the Mac. I can easily access any files I’ve saved in Affinity, for example, in the Affinity folder. Same with my 3D apps like Nomad Sculpt. The vast majority of apps have a file folder in Files in my experience. If some don’t, it’s not due to Files or an OS limitation, it’s just the developer chose not to. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I am talking about things like opening and saving files from any location, not from the dedicated app folder. In most apps, this turns into an unnecessarily complicated multi step process of sharing to app, making changes, finding the original location and overriding the original file. My document filing system worked great on Windows and Android and works on Mac, but there's lots of friction using it on the iPad because I keep different types of files in same folders arranged by functional category, and Apple wants me to group files based on file type instead.

I more than suspect that, I know it. Several things I consider essential for my workflow, others don’t, and I fully recognize that. I’m not saying these things aren’t or shouldn’t be important for you or your workflow, sorry if anything I’ve said came across that way to you. 🙂👍🏻

Sure. I don’t completely rely on cloud either. I do use cloud backups for some things, but I do a lot of manual backups. And I haven’t had an issue doing so with the tools that I discussed earlier.

No, I’m complaining that developers are allowed to get away with providing me with no choice but to side load their app (in many cases probably so they can collect more of my data, and didn’t want to have to disclose that as they’d have to in the App Store), and they don’t have to distribute their app in the App Store. As I said, many such utilities are not optional. They’re required. I am forced to install them in order to use the device in any kind of practical manner. On iPadOS, these same apps (or good alternatives) are available in the App Store. On the Mac, they are not available in the App Store. And this is the problem. Side loading doesn’t give me “more choices”, it forces me into choices I don’t want to make, but am forced to because developers don’t provide me with the option to install their app from the App Store as they do on the iPad… Case in point: Nomad Sculpt. On the iPad, I can easily source it from the iPad App Store. On the Mac, the developer forces me to side load the app, I can’t install it from the Mac App Store, even though I can install it from the iPad App Store. I have many mission critical files created in that format. If I want to be able to work with these project files on the Mac to make any practical use of it, I am forced to side load the app. And yes, if all Apps were required to be installed from the App Store on the Mac, then developers would be forced to give me the option to install their app from the App Store if they wanted to be available on the Mac…

Ok, fair. I was not aware of the way things work in your field. Most engineering apps are simply not available on iPad so for me they are "extras". But you have a point.

It tells me the kinds of data it collects, which is more than I get when I am forced to side load an app and they don’t tell me anything… And no, I cannot effectively do that, as I already explained…

And there’s plenty of apps that exist on iPad but simply don’t exist on macOS. I’m complaining about having less choice, because where on iPadOS, I can install any and every iPad app from the App Store, on macOS, I have to install several essential apps via sideloading. Again, you keep saying I can choose, but my workflow doesn’t agree. My clients don’t agree. People I collaborate with and use x tool and need me to use x tool as well in order to collaborate don’t agree… And I even have it relatively easy, many workplaces require employees to use certain apps, and those often aren’t available in the Mac App Store because the dev chooses not to make it available there for one reason or another, and so those people are quite literally forced by their employer to side load those apps.

It’s not as “optional” as you make it out to be…

I’ve had a couple of apps that were dropped as you said. And they still remained on my devices. With updates, and even moving to new devices.

Were they dropped from the AppStore altogether, or did the developer do whatever is required to keep them available to the people who already purchased them? Some of my old apps were still available for redownload in my app history after the developer stopped offering them to the new users.

In case of this one app (iThoughts) it was not available for redownload immediately after the developer stopped marketing it, so when I upgraded my phone it was gone. I assume there's some payment that would be required to keep it and he decided to not pay it.

That has not been my experience, as I said before. And from my perspective, I have more control. I can opt out of automatic app updates if I don’t want them. I can easily cancel subscriptions in one place where it’s harder for apps to hide it away and make it frustrating and difficult. I can install it from a more secure source where it’s undergone review from another party that I trust. I get a lot of things I don’t get with the forced side loading system on Mac…

I already explained that I am effectively forced to. Telling me I’m not forced to side load apps that I need doesn’t change anything… 🙄🤷🏼‍♂️. I think we should either drop debate over side loading, or move it elsewhere (you or I could create a thread for it and invite the other to it if you wish to do that), as it’s straying from the topic of this thread. I respect your opinion and that some prefer it. I don’t prefer it.

That's fine, no reason to argue over this difference of opinions.

I think I agree with that. 🙂👍🏻

 

[Kal Madda]

It probably depends on the use case. E.g. I had files residing in Cryptomator which I want to sync (not just copy) to files in the built-in OneDrive Vault (just so I had two independent encrypted storage options). Doing it on Mac was trivial, doing it on the iPad was not.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, I’ve only ever needed to create duplicates of files, I don’t know how the other kind of syncing your describing works in Finder on the Mac, but sounds interesting. 👍🏻. For me, I mainly am duplicating files when I back them up to my external SSDs. 👍🏻

I am talking about things like opening and saving files from any location, not from the dedicated app folder. In most apps, this turns into an unnecessarily complicated multi step process of sharing to app, making changes, finding the original location and overriding the original file. My document filing system worked great on Windows and Android and works on Mac, but there's lots of friction using it on the iPad because I keep different types of files in same folders arranged by functional category, and Apple wants me to group files based on file type instead.

Maybe it’s the kind of apps or workflow, but I still don’t see the difference. In apps like Affinity, Nomad Sculpt, Pixelmator Pro, etc. there’s generally an “Open” option that allows users to open files in the app, and gives you the Files helper application, which lets you navigate your file system and open files from anywhere on your iPad, and even linked cloud storage options. The same is true for Apple’s iWork apps. Again, maybe it’s the apps I’m using, or my workflow or something, but I’ve never encountered this. And with iWork apps, if I open a file, make changes, and save them, it saves the changes to that file, I don’t have to overwrite it or anything like that. 👍🏻

Ok, fair. I was not aware of the way things work in your field. Most engineering apps are simply not available on iPad so for me they are "extras". But you have a point.

Yeah, and like I said, I understand some prefer side loading, and as with anything, there are pluses and minuses to both. For me, the pluses of the App Store system outweigh the minuses, but to others they may not, and I totally respect that. 🙂👍🏻 And that makes sense with your perspective in regards to engineering apps, the category of apps is probably quite a desert on iPadOS. Hopefully that improves in years to come, and more of those apps will come to the iPad. 🙂👍🏻

Were they dropped from the AppStore altogether, or did the developer do whatever is required to keep them available to the people who already purchased them? Some of my old apps were still available for redownload in my app history after the developer stopped offering them to the new users.

I had an app that Apple originally allowed but later removed from the App Store for terms violations. It still remained on my devices for several years after that. I looked for it earlier, but remembered I had chosen to delete it a couple months back when I was rearranging my Home Screen layout for the first time in many years.

In case of this one app (iThoughts) it was not available for redownload immediately after the developer stopped marketing it, so when I upgraded my phone it was gone. I assume there's some payment that would be required to keep it and he decided to not pay it.

Oh, if it wasn’t downloaded on one of your devices at the time, then maybe that would be different, I don’t know if they stay downloadable from the App Store after they’ve been removed. In my case, it was installed on a device when it was removed, so it stayed on that device.

That's fine, no reason to argue over this difference of opinions.

Yeah, I’m sorry if I came off as harsh at any point in our discussion, I try not to and I hope I didn’t, but sometimes I struggle with communication. I really appreciate understanding your perspective and opinion better. It’s been really informative to me. 🙂👍🏻

 

[thadoggfather]

Does anyone else feel 26.4 or 26.4.1 resulted in better performance?

Still on 26.3.1 on my iPad mini 7 haven’t made the move yet

 

[01cowherd]

In the Notes app, if you write with an Apple Pencil but without tapping the pencil icon (i.e., no tool palette visible*), then the pencil icon will toggle back and forth between the selected and not selected as you write. It's a minor bug compared to some of the other ones I run into. It's also been a bug for several years, so I usually make sure to always tap the pencil icon to avoid this. The other day, I forgot to do so, and noticed it's even more attention-grabbing in iPadOS 26. With Liquid Glass, it animates the button group every time it toggles the icon colors. You can see it in this video

(timestamp 2:34 to 2:42).

 

[Kal Madda]

In the Notes app, if you write with an Apple Pencil but without tapping the pencil icon (i.e., no tool palette visible*), then the pencil icon will toggle back and forth between the selected and not selected as you write. It's a minor bug compared to some of the other ones I run into. It's also been a bug for several years, so I usually make sure to always tap the pencil icon to avoid this. The other day, I forgot to do so, and noticed it's even more attention-grabbing in iPadOS 26. With Liquid Glass, it animates the button group every time it toggles the icon colors. You can see it in this video

(timestamp 2:34 to 2:42).

I’ve never encountered that in any version of iPadOS, so can’t do any troubleshooting or testing for you unfortunately. I hope it’s fixed for you soon. 👍🏻

 

[I7guy]

Does anyone else feel 26.4 or 26.4.1 resulted in better performance?

Still on 26.3.1 on my iPad mini 7 haven’t made the move yet

Performance isn’t worse and a bunch of vulnerabilities were fixed.

 

[Steve Adams]

I use my iPad semi regularly and it's great. I have no issues with it. I do hope when Ternus gets control that the accessories side of Apple gets better. We need a clamshell keyboard setup for iPads instead of the terrible design of the keyboard for the iPad Air/Pro and the kickstand model for the regular ipad. Create useful accessories instead of a long dopey sock with a hold cut in the side of it.

26.4.1 seems to have made my 10th gen "snappier' again.